[NT] Who are more "robotic": INTJs or INTPs?

[Zarathustra]

Oh I get it now. But it's still wrong. Fe doesn't manifest in INTPs like C-3PO, it's a completely different flavor - darker and angrier. The "witch hunts" and bannings at INTPc are like this. When INTPs succumb to groupthink it's more like The Crucible. The appropriate robot is then:

Ok...

You would be the expert...

I'm guessing, though, that to [MENTION=9187]Within[/MENTION], y'all just look like some whiny ISFJs...

 

[MacGuffin]

Ok...

You would be the expert...

I'm guessing, though, that to [MENTION=9187]Within[/MENTION], y'all just look like some whiny ISFJs...

Don't worry, we're working on getting him banned too!

 

[Zarathustra]

They're both awful.

Are you talking INTJs and INTPs, or C3PO and Roy Batty?

Or both?

 

[Within]

I'm guessing, though, that to [MENTION=9187]Within[/MENTION], y'all just look like some whiny ISFJs...

Far from all, but definitely a large enough number for me to have acquired such a stance and posted it to begin with.

Don't worry, we're working on getting him banned too!

That's not very nice. How many languages do you speak?

 

[Thalassa]

I agree with [MENTION=3]MacGuffin[/MENTION] that INTP Fe is more like a witchhunt, however it's not nearly as scary as being pinned by a wild pack of ENTPs.

As they age, though, I can really see Fe in INTPs. I've noticed it with some of the INTPs around 40-ish on this site, I see more visible Fe in them to the point they can occasionally and randomly come across as IxFJ-ish in this weird childish prim manner, while it's utterly lacking in the younger INTPs.

I think ENTPs manifest Fe more like ESFJs in high school, and INTPs manifest Fe more like the 6th grade ISFJ hall pass monitor.

BTW, INTJs can seem very "whiny" to me, I think they seem more vulnerable than INTPs sometimes...when they aren't being absolute dicks.

 

[MacGuffin]

That's not very nice. How many languages do you speak?

What are you a languageist??

*reports post*

 

[Zarathustra]

I think ENTPs manifest Fe more like ESFJs in high school, and INTPs manifest Fe more like the 6th grade ISFJ hall pass monitor.

An interesting description.

(It's actually pretty damn accurate.)

BTW, INTJs can seem very "whiny" to me...

That's simply because you fail to understand how rational we're being.

 

[Within]

I am fluent in over six million forms of communication, beep beep...

*reports post*

 

[Thalassa]

An interesting description.



That's simply because you fail to understand how rational we're actually being.

Right. You guys keep telling yourselves that.

 

[Robopop]

I think INTJs have the more outward appearance of being robotic, they maybe more aloof, efficient, and standoffish while INTPs present a more open and go with the flow demeanor. That said Ti is more about logical deductions and fine tuning meanings/definitions while Ni can sometimes "skip" that whole process and unconsciously arrive at a conclusion, it seems to be limited only by the user's imagination(which has it's pros and cons).

 

[Rasofy]

The architect - the ultimate robotic INTP:

 

[INTP]

INTJs are more often robotic, but INTPs are just as capable of being robotic

 

[Pinker85]

INTJs come off as colder but in reality often harbor lots of illogical beliefs based on their gut or intuition which make them more human. They see patterns but like all of us are limited in scope which means they sometimes take the most dominant of the causatory reasons available to them of a situation and believe this is the only and strongest cause which leads to their sometimes holding these really strange prejudices. They can't have, due to limited scope, of course, knowledge that in reality this feature is being formed by features on deeper levels. It’s like saying the water comes from the faucet without taking into account the fact the faucet simply facilitates the flow of water from pumps. When they are unhealthy they'll focus too much on the current level and all succeeding levels which all point again to the same feature being the cause of such and such. The fact they seem to look for things that confirm what they believe probably doesn't help things. But whether it actually ever works in such a linear way, I doubt. There is varying cross flow and weighting between features on varying levels affecting each other. Ultimately the decisiveness this allows them to feel about the rightness of their vision, which in turn makes them direct focus on what is generally necessary in succeeding levels to be competent at expertly changing things at whatever level they've decided the problem can be fixed at, changes the world . . . it's all relative, anyway. But it can sometimes come off in weird ways like being convinced immigration is ruining their country etc.

INTPs are much more logical but sometimes it seems too much like knowledge of the wizard behind the curtain which makes them existentially depressed because bias allows us to create personal meaning from a meaningless universe where are all potentialities of a given situation are equally valid. So they put their energy into computational things which are impersonal . . . as impersonal and unfixed as an algorithm being run by a Turing machine, which they are in a way like. Most humans don't think about it and simply live within the parameters society and experiences have assigned for them . . . lacking knowledge of the wizard behind the curtains. This leads to all sorts of nasty shit like racism, sexism, and xenophobia etc. But also happiness, sadness, a sense of purpose, and love . . . that human shit.

I think if we’re going to go with how the types operate within themselves I think that an INTP is more robotic. But not so in that robots have really clearly defined goals which often INTPs lack. Meh. Mostly talking out my ass. hehehe. Stream of consciousness is a INFPs preferred method of communication, unfortunately. I’ll probably think something different tomorrow.

 

[Society]

INTJs are more like robots, programmed by Ni's singular answers and embodied in inferior Se, INTPs are more like passive disembodied data analysis software.

which one is more dehumanizing? you decide!

 

[INTP]

INTJs come off as colder but in reality often harbor lots of illogical beliefs based on their gut or intuition which make them more human. They see patterns but like all of us are limited in scope which means they sometimes take the most dominant of the causatory reasons available to them of a situation and believe this is the only and strongest cause which leads to their sometimes holding these really strange prejudices. They can't have, due to limited scope, of course, knowledge that in reality this feature is being formed by features on deeper levels. It’s like saying the water comes from the faucet without taking into account the fact the faucet simply facilitates the flow of water from pumps. When they are unhealthy they'll focus too much on the current level and all succeeding levels which all point again to the same feature being the cause of such and such. The fact they seem to look for things that confirm what they believe probably doesn't help things. But whether it actually ever works in such a linear way, I doubt. There is varying cross flow and weighting between features on varying levels affecting each other. Ultimately the decisiveness this allows them to feel about the rightness of their vision, which in turn makes them direct focus on what is generally necessary in succeeding levels to be competent at expertly changing things at whatever level they've decided the problem can be fixed at, changes the world . . . it's all relative, anyway. But it can sometimes come off in weird ways like being convinced immigration is ruining their country etc.

im going to have to 100% vouch this(except that the illogical beliefs come from Fi, not Ni). most INTJs cant really see this in themselves, so they will most likely oppose. i have tried explaining this to some of the INTJs on this forum multiple times, but they just project most of these things to me and just say that i(and other INTPs) am like this..

 

[Zarathustra]

Hey look, it's the "I resent my INTJ friend so I constantly harp on about the same pessimistic schtick about INTJs" club.

 

[entropie]

People I wish I had your problems

 

[Fluffywolf]

People I wish I had your problems

You can have mine, but you're keeping your own as well.

 

[greenfairy]

I agree with [MENTION=3]MacGuffin[/MENTION] that INTP Fe is more like a witchhunt, however it's not nearly as scary as being pinned by a wild pack of ENTPs.

As they age, though, I can really see Fe in INTPs. I've noticed it with some of the INTPs around 40-ish on this site, I see more visible Fe in them to the point they can occasionally and randomly come across as IxFJ-ish in this weird childish prim manner, while it's utterly lacking in the younger INTPs.

I think ENTPs manifest Fe more like ESFJs in high school, and INTPs manifest Fe more like the 6th grade ISFJ hall pass monitor.

BTW, INTJs can seem very "whiny" to me, I think they seem more vulnerable than INTPs sometimes...when they aren't being absolute dicks.

Agreed.

INTJs come off as colder but in reality often harbor lots of illogical beliefs based on their gut or intuition which make them more human. They see patterns but like all of us are limited in scope which means they sometimes take the most dominant of the causatory reasons available to them of a situation and believe this is the only and strongest cause which leads to their sometimes holding these really strange prejudices. They can't have, due to limited scope, of course, knowledge that in reality this feature is being formed by features on deeper levels. It’s like saying the water comes from the faucet without taking into account the fact the faucet simply facilitates the flow of water from pumps. When they are unhealthy they'll focus too much on the current level and all succeeding levels which all point again to the same feature being the cause of such and such. The fact they seem to look for things that confirm what they believe probably doesn't help things. But whether it actually ever works in such a linear way, I doubt. There is varying cross flow and weighting between features on varying levels affecting each other. Ultimately the decisiveness this allows them to feel about the rightness of their vision, which in turn makes them direct focus on what is generally necessary in succeeding levels to be competent at expertly changing things at whatever level they've decided the problem can be fixed at, changes the world . . . it's all relative, anyway. But it can sometimes come off in weird ways like being convinced immigration is ruining their country etc.

INTPs are much more logical but sometimes it seems too much like knowledge of the wizard behind the curtain which makes them existentially depressed because bias allows us to create personal meaning from a meaningless universe where are all potentialities of a given situation are equally valid. So they put their energy into computational things which are impersonal . . . as impersonal and unfixed as an algorithm being run by a Turing machine, which they are in a way like. Most humans don't think about it and simply live within the parameters society and experiences have assigned for them . . . lacking knowledge of the wizard behind the curtains. This leads to all sorts of nasty shit like racism, sexism, and xenophobia etc. But also happiness, sadness, a sense of purpose, and love . . . that human shit.

I think if we’re going to go with how the types operate within themselves I think that an INTP is more robotic. But not so in that robots have really clearly defined goals which often INTPs lack. Meh. Mostly talking out my ass. hehehe. Stream of consciousness is a INFPs preferred method of communication, unfortunately. I’ll probably think something different tomorrow.

Very true! So I would say based on the first paragraph that INTP is deductive and INTJ is inductive.

 

[violet_crown]

I think there's interesting things happening with language here. A lot of focus on the mechanistic aspect of robots, their ability to carry things out seemingly uninfluenced by the mind or emotions, rather than those qualities that make a robot distinct from any other machine in the first place. Colloquially, mechanistic and robotic are used interchangeably, but it's not exactly appropriate. At their lowest levels, there's a lot of overlap, but I feel that when you get to the outer limits of the potential for a machine versus a robot (by introducing a factor like AI) you'll be missing something critical. My point is that the conversation's more interesting if when you're imagining a robot, you're imagining more than just a complex machine. I think the critical distinction for me is that the sophistication of a robot is the measured by the degree to which it can autonomously comprehend, negotiate, and manipulate its environment. It's not just it's ability to reason, but to respond dynamically and spontaneously to an undefined and complex situation. The sophistication of a machine, otoh, is determined more or less solely by the ability to execute the commands of their programmers. Machines are tools of human cognition, while robots embody our attempt to distill and refine some aspect of it.


So, for my actual opinion, I liked the way Fluffywolf framed things, so I'm stealing his prompt.

The main discussion right now is which semantic people value more themselves. So the topic should now be:

What makes an INTJ/INTP more robotic in your opinion?
- Their cognative processes?
- Their appearance?

Pick one and get on with it.

Based on the way I've defined things, I believe that INTJs are more robotic in their processes, while appearing more mechanistic. INTPs are more mechanistic in their processes, while appearing more robotic. My impression of INTPs is that while they are outwardly curious and exploratory, they actually function more like computers. Ti generates a static script, variables are inputted via Ne, and a consistent, logical response is outputted. They are basically human processors. This sort of rigidity doesn't really qualify for my definition of robotic.

On the other hand, INTJs have a very open feedback loop, and rely more heavily on information received from the environment to draw conclusions. The inner framework is more fluid, constantly being reevaluated and evolving as new data comes in. As a result of a more dynamic interior process, the average INTJ is a lot less predictable than the average INTP. Despite this, I think Te generally inclines them to share what they deem to be the relevant bits rather than the whole shebang. So what people generally hear is, "I saw x, I wanted to do y, I took these steps to accomplish z. The end."

Anyways, perhaps I've unnecessarily muddled things here, but I think the distinction between "mechanistic" and "robotic" is an important one. I cast my vote for INTJ with the caveat that my post be read first.