Non-human persons

[UniqueMixture]

I was reading an article on a group of scientists, philosophers, and lawyers who came up with a declaration saying cetaceans (dolphins and whales) should be declared non-human persons and should be given rights similar to humans such as not being the property of a corporation and a right to a non-disruption of their natural habitat.

After reading a bit more I discovered this declaration by the Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies:

Owing to advances in several fields, including the neurosciences, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the human species no longer can ignore the rights of non-human persons. A number of non-human animals, including the great apes, cetaceans (i.e. dolphins and whales), elephants, and parrots, exhibit characteristics and tendencies consistent with that of a person's traits like self-awareness, intentionality, creativity, symbolic communication, and many others. It is a moral and legal imperative that we now extend the protection of 'human rights' from our species to all beings with those characteristics. The IEET, as a promoter of non-anthropocentric personhood ethics, defends the rights of non-human persons to live in liberty, free from undue confinement, slavery, torture, experimentation, and the threat of unnatural death. Further, the IEET defends the r of non-human persons to live freely in their natural habitats, when that's not possible, to be given the best quality of life an welfare possible in captivity (such as sanctuaries).

Apparently the great apes, dolphins, and elephants share certain elements like spindles in parts of their brains, etc which may be related to cognition.

So, what do you think? Are there such things as non-human persons? What animals/entities should be included in the category? What rights are they entitled to (if any)? What are the legal, social, moral, etc. ramifications?

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

We've been ignoring this for how long then?

That's a pretty good question though. I think most people would classify any sort of human as a person, civilized or not. But as a species we treat other species differently, so it's difficult to say we could treat animals as a 'person'. I get the idea but it doesn't seem to work.

 

[Mole]

So, what do you think? Are there such things as non-human persons?

Corporations are non-human persons. The Law treats all corporations as non-human persons, with the same or similar rights and responsibilities as human persons.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Well, it brings up other philosophical questions as well. What is a person? Are clones persons? Are genetically engineered humans persons? Are humans augmented with technology persons? Is it possible to have inorganic persons (robots or software that evolves sentience)? Do these entities have souls? What is a soul? If inorganic persons can exist, is it possible that they exist already? What is sentience?

Using a computer model of molecular dynamics, an international team has discovered that, under the right conditions, particles of inorganic dust can become organized into helical structures. These structures can interact with one another in ways that are usually associated with organic compounds and with life. Not only do these helical strands interact in a counter-intuitive way in which like can attract like, but they also undergo changes that are normally associated with biological molecules, such as DNA and proteins, say the researchers. For example, they can divide to form two copies of the original structure. These new structures can also interact to induce changes in their neighbours. And they can even evolve into yet more structures as less stable ones break down, leaving behind only the fittest structures in the plasma. 'These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter,' said the lead researcher. 'They are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve.'" The research, published in the New Journal of Physics 2007, was carried out using a computer model of molecular dynamics.

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Corporations are non-human persons. The Law treats all corporations as non-human persons, with the same or similar rights and responsibilities as human persons.

I guess I meant, not just legally, but morally/emotionally. I understand people can love their job, but they do not normally think of their grocery chain as a sentient entity. Do you?

 

[Mole]

I guess I meant, not just legally, but morally/emotionally. I understand people can love their job, but they do not normally think of their grocery chain as a sentient entity. Do you?

My grocery chain is called Aldi, a German grocery chain, non-human but legally a person. So just the other day I said to them, you have German efficiency but no sense of humour. And they said, we don't need a sense of humour to sell groceries.

 

[Betty Blue]

Well i'm inclined to agree. But i'm not sure how much of what is suggested is not already in play...

"given rights similar to humans such as not being the property of a corporation and a right to a non-disruption of their natural habitat."

If the above quote is not already enforced then yes it should be. Oh but define non-disruption?
Because if it means the whole of all seas and oceans then that might be a tall order. Idk... i don't think we are far off from being able to synthetically communicate with cetaceans. We do already a little but i meant more as a wholly formed language. That will be interesting.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Here is the text of the declaration [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION]. I believe it was just meant to be a preliminary conceptual sort of thing so the intricacies of legality could be sorted out later.

Based on the principle of the equal treatment of all persons; Recognizing that scientific research gives us deeper insights into the complexities of cetacean minds, societies and cultures; Noting that the progressive development of international law manifests an entitlement to life by cetaceans; We affirm that all cetaceans as persons have the right to life, liberty and wellbeing. We conclude that:

1. Every individual cetacean has the right to life.

2. No cetacean should be held in captivity or servitude; be subject to cruel treatment; or be removed from their natural environment.

3. All cetaceans have the right to freedom of movement and residence within their natural environment.

4. No cetacean is the property of any State, corporation, human group or individual.

5. Cetaceans have the right to the protection of their natural environment.

6. Cetaceans have the right not to be subject to the disruption of their cultures.

7. The rights, freedoms and norms set forth in this Declaration should be protected under international and domestic law.

8. Cetaceans are entitled to an international order in which these rights, freedoms and norms can be fully realized.

9. No State, corporation, human group or individual should engage in any activity that undermines these rights, freedoms and norms.

10. Nothing in this Declaration shall prevent a State from enacting stricter provisions for the protection of cetacean rights.

Cetaceans are currently thought by scientists to have a higher sentience quotient than even chimpanzees (our closest genetic relative).

 

[kyuuei]

I certainly don't get a right to non-distruption of my natural habitat.. so why should whales?

 

[Betty Blue]

Yeah it's great, first bill of equal rights for animals-woot! (*that i know of)
Now to just get them talking to us on topics of importance

 

[UniqueMixture]

I certainly don't get a right to non-distruption of my natural habitat.. so why should whales?

Perhaps by giving rights like this to cetaceans it will illuminate the inconsistencies in human culture and lead to increased rights for others as well.

Or as Martin Luther King put it:

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

 

[Spamtar]

All listed should have greater rights (including dogs and cats) EXCEPT the eschewed chewy Cephalopods.

The groping (and tasty) pariahs of the underworld.

 

[RaptorWizard]

mexicans, because after all, they are an alien race from another civilization

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I agree in concept, but policy implementation would be very difficult.

 

[Tiltyred]

It's been proven that crows are as smart as apes. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html) Most animals, I believe, are persons.

I'd be happy if we could just agree not to keep any animals in captivity for our entertainment (zoos, circuses, Sea World, etc.)

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's been proven that crows are as smart as apes. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html) Most animals, I believe, are persons.

I'd be happy if we could just agree not to keep any animals in captivity for our entertainment (zoos, circuses, Sea World, etc.)

I so agree. I always hated the zoo, etc. I have always felt deep empathy (sympathy?) for animals in cages.

 

[Spamtar]

I so agree. I always hated the zoo, etc. I have always felt deep empathy (sympathy?) for animals in cages.

I think that there is a balancing test when it comes to zoos. Although there are some great TV documentaries it doesn't replace the empathy children and others get from live contact with the animals.

Some zoos are better at it than others. For example if I was an animal I thing I would prefer to kick it parasite free at the San Diego zoo than have some hyena biting at my balls while I am recovering winded from a lion chasing me across the savanna.

 

[Beorn]

I think Wyatt Cenac did a great job ripping this apart on the daily show. Specifically how horrible it is to apply the 13th ammendment to whales.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-15-2012/seaworld-of-pain

Edit to add: I think my favorite quote from that video is when Wyatt asks, "so whales are field n****s and dogs and cats are house n****s?" The look on the PETA lawyer's face was priceless.

 

[The Great One]

I definitely believe in animal rights. I just hate it when some people take it too far and say that animal testing is wrong, and we shouldn't eat meat. **I fully expect to be flamed for this post.**

 

[Edgar]

It's been proven that crows are as smart as apes. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html) Most animals, I believe, are persons.

I much prefer crows over monkeys.
A crow would never throw its shit at me, or bite me with ebola laced fangs.


Here's a video of a cool crow being a baller

 

[Lark]

To be perfectly honest I think humanity has yet to apply rights to humanity, at least in any meaningful sense.