[ENTP] Are any ENTPs actually interested in being vulnerable?

[1487610420]

Generally, No. Disclosure is directly proportionate to trust, which in turn develops progressively, as a two-way road. To come to a point where I am interested in being vulnerable, the former has already been established with the other person being singled out/elected worthy of such, which only rarely happens upon development of strong emotional bonds.

 

[Myrtle]

I don't long for vulnerability, however in a romantic relationship Im looking for someone how can bring out my emotions and force me to feel them, cause I (and maybe many ENTPs) with me does such a good job suppressing them that it becomes an subconscious habit. I don't think about it the emotions just arent there, 90% of the time im 'ok', Every morning in the car my ESFJ college asks me "how do you feel this morning?" that question is so strange to me.

Every morning i just state "okay but tired", I think sometimes that im supposed to feel something, I ask him back and he has some colorful detailed explanation that takes the lenght of the car ride to work.

As ENTPs we are very interested in personal development, so I think most of us want to face what is inside of us I know I do, however as an ENTP I wanna fight it, i would fight God if I met him, and this makes me think its wrong to, why would I wanna fight myself? or the demons instead of making peace with them?

 

[entropie]

Before I begin, let me just state that a lot of measurements or judgements here are very notably from an INFJ's, and, furthermore, my standpoint. If it sounds like complaining, it's because it is. But the point of the thread is to learn about what contradictions, or exceptions to these fairly typical findings / assessments of an ENTP by an INFJ may exist. Because I really want for them to.

I've reveled in the unparalleled intellectual chemistry that can come with INFJ / ENTP interaction, only to come up empty-handed. There's a very distinct and pervasive cowardice in their conduct through all interpersonal areas where there exists the opportunity to be vulnerable, to relate, to be known and cared for. Even their relationship with information appears cheapened by their lack of committment to putting themselves out there more fully, to potentially be challenged and thus refined, or to refine another.

I think it's because you're just not emotionally invested in ideas, quite the same as your relationship with people. It doesn't actually seem to matter to you to go not just deeper but all the way. You seem to be contented with transient flirtations with people and the ideas and connections that you effortlessly create and abandon. This insatiability surely fuels much of what I appreciate of you, but also maddens me.

The connection that is sometimes shared between us is nothing short of enthralling, invigorating, tantalizing, inspiring. You are so easily capable of intoxicating me with your minds. And yet, I can't seem to truly wrangle you out into the light of day. And I am damned good at that. Especially when we are connecting really well! You have a distance from the thrills of it that I have to apply constant conscious effort around you to achieve.

I also yearn to find a strong sense of humanitarian values and operation within the core of such a person. I know that I shouldn't expect something along my own lines.. but... I am so dismayed by such intense intellectuals sometimes being so overly preoccupied with things like.. for example, their personal appearance. Allocating so much time and even money to the matter. What the hell is that shit? (I actually know, but, oh my god is this a point of frustration!)

I'm hoping to get some feedback on whether there is much to hold out hope for when it comes to an ENTP, for me. It may sound that I'm looking for another INFJ, and, while that is true, it is not what should be taken from this post. I appreciate the differences and the dynamics created through them. I just wish that I could close some of the gap with the right one of you, sometime. Almost all of my serious relationships have been with INFPs, but I have never been as passionate about, or felt as equally 'matched' in shared intellectualism at large than with ENTPs.

Still, I've become pretty jaded and count your lot as being piss poor when it comes to loyalty, compassion, vulnerability and often even honesty.

But this is all by a particularly hard to please INFJs standards. I'm sorry to NTs at large for my typical frustrations with these areas in which you are not NFs. I genuinely am meaning to be productive with this! If nothing else, I figure that some explicit INFJ reporting may be useful to some for learning about how others may experience them.

To me this sounds more like you'ld need to work on your tolerance towards people. If egocentrism is sold under the brand of "humanitarian values" or "aggressive expansion" still makes it egocentricsm.

To comment for instance one of your statements: you said you cant comprehend why an "intellectual" would be bothered by wearing fancy clothes. Well its because he takes a part in society and has adapted something from them for himself to recognize himself in society. The pure simple reason for this can be that he just doesnt want to be alone and likes to be together with other people, no matter how different they are or how different he has to become to be accepted by them. Most people accuse entps of chuming up with people but noone ever asks for the reason behind this.

A F has the same capability of loving people, like he has to hate people. Most Fs tho will never understand that.

 

[Winds of Thor]

I shared my vulnerabe side with an INFJ for 2 1/2 yrs. I got destroyed. You can't let someone walk all over you.

I actually based that relationship on MBTI. I seriously would not take MBTI necessarily seriously in this department as there is much more to life even that we can't see or know about but that is there and that is important. There's one for everyone with whom you can share your tender feelings. The gut will tell you if someone is right with..as a couple. I believe MBTI was the wrong focus to have going into the relationship so I would suggest forgetting about the MBTI stuff if I were you.


Edit: If you give yourself to someone and they don't love you, then it doesn't matter, MBTI or not. You can only do your part. I proposed in my last two relationships and I got rejected and in doing so showed a whole lot of vulnerability. I like doing some things because nobody tells me to. I think I understand what you say about left empty-handed but I wouldn't make that a focus. Then someone will be concerned with insecurities.

There's more likelihood they might act out or abuse you if they don't love you. If there's a lot of love in your relationship there's a greater possibility you will see more of their vulnerability. Where..left to one's temperament without loving another, they might cause harm knowingly I think. But in a loving relationship, their heart will more likely be quelled when times get tough and you'll see longsuffering and mercy as you're less than perfect. If it becomes apparent that is foreign to them (as was mine) then both are bad for each other. Actually against each other. Other than that, there's just no magic answer. It's making it work that is what it is about. That's what I think anyway .

 

[EcK]

nah i'm good. you?

 

[EcK]

Even their relationship with information appears cheapened by their lack of committment to putting themselves out there more fully, to potentially be challenged and thus refined, or to refine another.

I think it's because you're just not emotionally invested in ideas, quite the same as your relationship with people. It doesn't actually seem to matter to you to go not just deeper but all the way. You seem to be contented with transient flirtations with people and the ideas and connections that you effortlessly create and abandon. This insatiability surely fuels much of what I appreciate of you, but also maddens me.

oh come on. One more of these 'Im not really talking about a type I am talking about my ex' threads.

How would you feel if I started getting all 'men are like this', 'women are like that'
You'd thing me a bigot and you'd be right. Draw your own conclusions.
How do you know 'entps' don't love their ideas? Is your benchmark of what caring universal ? Could you imagine that for some people not taking sides all the time IS what respect is. To let people be who they want to be. Is that so terrible a thing to do?

While I am not the most patient of people if you sit down with me and go through my ethics I don't think they'd have anything to envy with yours in term of depth of analysis. I realize nobody's perfect and we all have our moments of weakness but I fear starting such a thread isn't especially productive as a way to advance general knowledge.

 

[entropie]

oh come on. One more of these 'Im not really talking about a type I am talking about my ex' threads.

How would you feel if I started getting all 'men are like this', 'women are like that'
You'd thing me a bigot and you'd be right. Draw your own conclusions.
How do you know 'entps' don't love their ideas? Is your benchmark of what caring is universal ? Could you imagine that for some people not taking sides all the time IS what respect is. To let people be who they want to be. Is that so terrible a thing to do?

But what would we do if I liked BDSM and wanted you to dominante me as your slave ? :~

 

[EcK]

But what would we do if I liked BDSM and wanted you to dominante me as your slave ? :~

I'd tell you in order of relevance that
A) I am not into guys (BDSM partners generally having a high correlation with sexual preference)
B) I do not like vertical relationships when they aren't absolutly necessary and I have yet to find a stable situation involving humans where a purely dominance/subservience duality is necessary.

Then I'd talk about the supposed dynamics and drives of BDSM and nuance my statement about verticality through a contractual, equal exchange framework.
I'd also note that your constant sex jokes remind me of an intp friend of mine and that while I do not care atrociously it certainly does not help in generating interest for your person on my side.

I think the desire to dominate probably inherently comes from a place of weakness and that while I realize people are not perfect I do not feel the need to encourage alternatives to growth sublimating something that should be observed and confronted based on a large array of data and one's own framework for self development

 

[entropie]

I'd tell you in order of relevance that
A) I am not into guys (BDSM partners generally having a high correlation with sexual preference)
B) I do not like vertical relationships when they aren't absolutly necessary and I have yet to find a stable situation involving humans where a purely dominance/subservience duality is necessary.

Then I'd talk about the supposed dynamics and drives of BDSM and nuance my statement about verticality through a contractual, equal exchange framework.
I'd also note that your constant sex jokes remind me of an intp friend of mine and that while I do not care atrociously it certainly does not help in generating interest for your person on my side.

I think the desire to dominate probably inherently comes from a place of weakness and that while I realize people are not perfect I do not feel the need to encourage alternatives to growth sublimating something that should be observed and confronted based on a large array of data and one's own framework for self development

So your wish for 'allowing everyone to develop freely' is nothing more than a hate campaign against people who love to be dominated ?!

No, we need to work on that definitions

 

[EcK]

So your wish for 'allowing everyone to develop freely' is nothing more than a hate campaign against people who love to be dominated ?!

No, we need to work on that definitions

Mh? No. I said I wouldnt like it for me and then stated my opinion about a common root of a significant & in the case of bdsm nearly ritualized need to dominate.
If I bother answering to humor that seems to be coming out of a preschool playground I think I can have an adult conversation about alternatives to my alternative with just about anybody who's willing to interact fairly.

 

[entropie]

Mh? No. I said I wouldnt like it for me
If I bother answer to humor that seems to be coming out of a preschool playground I think I can have an adult conversation about alternatives to my alternative with just about anybody who's willing to interact fairly.

Ya ^^

I guess if I wasnt german, I could be right-hand to the Dalai Lama

 

[EcK]

Ya ^^

I guess if I wasnt german, I could be right-hand to the Dalai Lama

Maybe the version of him who tries to speak English
Did you know that people speaking a foreign language are generally more rational in their conclusions? (I wonder how this applies to different levels of fluency however)

edit: do you think the current Dalai Lama is left handed?
edit 2: after watching a video he seems to be carrying out all the most significant and engaged actions with his right hand/arm so I d say he is right handed even though i havent seen him write (yet)

edit 3: AH!
[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUDu1cCd478"]Left or Right. Find out ![/YOUTUBE]

 

[entropie]

haha you are cruel. I would guess that they appear to be more rational cause they can only use so much words.

and that left hand thing I wouldnt ask me, that would only motivate playground humor

 

[EcK]

Every morning in the car my ESFJ college asks me "how do you feel this morning?" that question is so strange to me.

Every morning i just state "okay but tired", I think sometimes that im supposed to feel something, I ask him back and he has some colorful detailed explanation that takes the lenght of the car ride to work.

I have the exact same thing every day. Or my boss (F) calling me and asking first how i am and so on. And I'm always like 'im ok' 'fine' then I go to the whole T bit about 'so whats the point of the call'.

It's funny, in a puzzling yet self-evident way. She considers the conversation starts at 'how am I doing as a person' and I consider that the conversation starts at 'So what are we going to talk about' (which I realize mean I dismiss 'how do you feel' as an actual part of the conversation).
My general assumption is : If you call me it's for a reason, this reason is work related, therefore the conversation starts when this reason is mentioned. This reason is task/object based and how I feel, except in rare exceptions, is pretty irrelevant. Which is why I do not know exactly how to react when you ask me how I feel as I don't perceive this as a congruent part of the conversation in context.

I'm generally just, fine. And if I'm not well, who cares really. I certainly dont.

so to go back to the op: Generally how I (I dont want to say we/entps) feel is simply
A) not something we can really Ne much about as much as we'd like so it feels like walking through mud
B) As a T, the 'point' of the conversation is something you can define more discretely than feelings generally are. My natural reaction when talking about feelings is to think of studies and statistics and evolutionary drives.
Then again if people repetitively ignore my mental process (which I generally state out loud so it doesn't take a mind reader) there will come a point when I just won't engage my thoughts or only in the most superficial manner.

 

[WALMART]

The only time I become vulnerable to emotional conflict is when someone I truly care about is hurt by my actions.


Which, unfortunately... happens more than I'd like.






Other than that: fuck what I say, fuck what I think, and fuck you doubly so.

 

[Myrtle]

I have the exact same thing every day. Or my boss (F) calling me and asking first how i am and so on. And I'm always like 'im ok' 'fine' then I go to the whole T bit about 'so whats the point of the call'.

It's funny, in a puzzling yet self-evident way. She considers the conversation starts at 'how am I doing as a person' and I consider that the conversation starts at 'So what are we going to talk about' (which I realize mean I dismiss 'how do you feel' as an actual part of the conversation).
My general assumption is : If you call me it's for a reason, this reason is work related, therefore the conversation starts when this reason is mentioned. This reason is task/object based and how I feel, except in rare exceptions, is pretty irrelevant. Which is why I do not know exactly how to react when you ask me how I feel as I don't perceive this as a congruent part of the conversation in context.

I'm generally just, fine. And if I'm not well, who cares really. I certainly dont.

so to go back to the op: Generally how I (I dont want to say we/entps) feel is simply
A) not something we can really Ne much about as much as we'd like so it feels like walking through mud
B) As a T, the 'point' of the conversation is something you can define more discretely than feelings generally are. My natural reaction when talking about feelings is to think of studies and statistics and evolutionary drives.
Then again if people repetitively ignore my mental process (which I generally state out loud so it doesn't take a mind reader) there will come a point when I just won't engage my thoughts or only in the most superficial manner.

Agreed!

 

[Reverie]

Still, I've become pretty jaded and count your lot as being piss poor when it comes to loyalty, compassion, vulnerability and often even honesty.

From my experience of living with an ENTP you must have just come accros a rotten egg. My ex was very loyal with his close circle of friends. In terms of being faithful he was very. Had always been in long term committed relationships. Loyalty if termed as keeping a secret, no. Some people just can't keep secrets. ;D
I think there's a world of difference between having a vulnerable side and showing it. Maybe some aren't so comfortable showing that side of themselves. However in my experience my ex was always very candid and revealing when discussing things with me. I think he could distance himself if it came to himself and view himself quite objectively, to the extent that is possible to anyone. To people who were not in his inner circle all you mentioned in the above quote would apply. People found him very brash, hotheaded and slightly suspect. I don't think it was a fair or correct assessment. The beef I had with my ex was the fact he used to indulge in what I'd describe as nitpicking and naggging and it was constant, concerning pretty much everything when it came to me. I don't know if that's a common ENTP problem, being thought of as too critical. It's sometimes said to be an INFJ problem...but I definetly met someone who trumped me on that...He was super critical and I found that too exhausting to live with, but hey it's not easy to live with yourself if your critical side drives away people you care for. It's hard to be prickly... so I harbor no ill will.
I thought generally speaking he was charming, caring and had an endearing puckish quality to him. But at the same time he was often sad and unhappy, somewhat jaded and had a hard time getting positive response from people because of his unconventionality and disregard for people's feelings or social graces (This particular specimen of man is closely akin to Kenny from Kenny vs. Spenny...). Still that said, one of the finest people I've known.

 

[EcK]

From my experience of living with an ENTP you must have just come accros a rotten egg. My ex was very loyal with his close circle of friends. In terms of being faithful he was very. Had always been in long term committed relationships. Loyalty if termed as keeping a secret, no. Some people just can't keep secrets. ;D
I think there's a world of difference between having a vulnerable side and showing it. Maybe some aren't so comfortable showing that side of themselves. However in my experience my ex was always very candid and revealing when discussing things with me. I think he could distance himself if it came to himself and view himself quite objectively, to the extent that is possible to anyone. To people who were not in his inner circle all you mentioned in the above quote would apply. People found him very brash, hotheaded and slightly suspect. I don't think it was a fair or correct assessment. The beef I had with my ex was the fact he used to indulge in what I'd describe as nitpicking and naggging and it was constant, concerning pretty much everything when it came to me. I don't know if that's a common ENTP problem, being thought of as too critical. It's sometimes said to be an INFJ problem...but I definetly met someone who trumped me on that...He was super critical and I found that too exhausting to live with, but hey it's not easy to live with yourself if your critical side drives away people you care for. It's hard to be prickly... so I harbor no ill will.
I thought generally speaking he was charming, caring and had an endearing puckish quality to him. But at the same time he was often sad and unhappy, somewhat jaded and had a hard time getting positive response from people because of his unconventionality and disregard for people's feelings or social graces (This particular specimen of man is closely akin to Kenny from Kenny vs. Spenny...). Still that said, one of the finest people I've known.

Critical ? Was he insecure about your relationship or / and frustrated by his job ? (throwing darts in the dark here so I m not making actual assumptions, just asking)

 

[Winds of Thor]

Critical ? Was he insecure about your relationship or / and frustrated by his job ? (throwing darts in the dark here so I m not making actual assumptions, just asking)

Yeah good questions. Could see this as reason for the unhappiness as well.

 

[entropie]

I have the exact same thing every day. Or my boss (F) calling me and asking first how i am and so on. And I'm always like 'im ok' 'fine' then I go to the whole T bit about 'so whats the point of the call'.

It's funny, in a puzzling yet self-evident way. She considers the conversation starts at 'how am I doing as a person' and I consider that the conversation starts at 'So what are we going to talk about' (which I realize mean I dismiss 'how do you feel' as an actual part of the conversation).
My general assumption is : If you call me it's for a reason, this reason is work related, therefore the conversation starts when this reason is mentioned. This reason is task/object based and how I feel, except in rare exceptions, is pretty irrelevant. Which is why I do not know exactly how to react when you ask me how I feel as I don't perceive this as a congruent part of the conversation in context.

Reminds me of the saying: if you do not have any important problems, create some for yourself.

What brings me to another question: in relation to being vulnerable and showing it as an entp; would you all say that an entp is more egoistic as in occupied with himself or more concerned with other people (not the same like altruistic)? I am thinking here of certain I-types who write 100 pages long eassys about themselves and you just have to ask yourself: how the heck can someone be so intrested in oneself ? I mean I bore myself with myself, I definitly need a lot of people or at least the internet to have some fun and learn something new