[ISTJ] Famous dead Sensors

[FemMecha]

What about the historical Sensors? I would guess those remembered for their skills on the battlefield would be good examples. Sensing was arguably a more important skill in the past, so there could be many examples. Life is much more abstract now.

I've actually wondered if Abraham Lincoln was an ISTJ. I'm not certain as he could easily have been an N, but for some reason I have wondered. What do you think?

 

[Totenkindly]

I've actually wondered if Abraham Lincoln was an ISTJ. I'm not certain as he could easily have been an N, but for some reason I have wondered. What do you think?

No.

Next question.

 

[Zergling]

Most people involved in politics probably.

 

[Zhash]

I've actually wondered if Abraham Lincoln was an ISTJ. I'm not certain as he could easily have been an N, but for some reason I have wondered. What do you think?

Abraham Lincoln suffered greatly with bipolar disorder. I also believe he was a strong, "N".

 

[Totenkindly]

Abraham Lincoln suffered greatly with bipolar disorder. I also believe he was a strong, "N".

Based on the David Herbert Donald bio I've read of him, he seems to be very much the "Ne" sort of INTP... more jovial and social than hard-assed and cold. Just read details of how he ran his presidency (and maybe how he even got there), and you'll see what I mean.

He did suffer a great deal of depression. I'm not convinced he was manic, but the depression was notable and very heavy at times.

 

[MacGuffin]

George Washington - ISTJ

 

[Totenkindly]

George Washington - ISTJ

That one's right. (even if it was MacG who suggested it.)

 

["?"]

George Patton, FDR, JFK (all ESTP)
Red Adair (ISTP)

 

[SolitaryWalker]

George Washington - ISTJ

Why? (Some commentators suggest that he was an ESFJ, I dont know enough about his life to see what his type was)

 

[Totenkindly]

Why? (Some commentators suggest that he was an ESFJ, I dont know enough about his life to see what his type was)

if you read about his life, you'll see he wasn't really an E. He didn't really seem to enjoy the public life, he did it more of a sense of duty for his countrymen, and retired back to his own estates when it became feasible to do so.

I think a Te/Fi combo (rather than Fe/Ti, which is what an ESFJ would have as two of the functions) is much more apparent in his behavior as well.

he was also selected as a candidate for the first president because he had a positive reputation, was solid, and stable -- a rather low-key, respectable person the average citizen could look up to. Not exactly the typical positive qualities of an ESFJ leader, but definitely traits of a socially-well-adjusted ISTJ.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

if you read about his life, you'll see he wasn't really an E. He didn't really seem to enjoy the public life, he did it more of a sense of duty for his countrymen, and retired back to his own estates when it became feasible to do so.

I think a Te/Fi combo (rather than Fe/Ti, which is what an ESFJ would have as two of the functions) is much more apparent in his behavior as well.

he was also selected as a candidate for the first president because he had a positive reputation, was solid, and stable -- a rather low-key, respectable person the average citizen could look up to. Not exactly the typical positive qualities of an ESFJ leader, but definitely traits of a socially-well-adjusted ISTJ.

Yes, it is very common to see a well-balanced ISTJ public figure perceived as respectable (though not extraordinary), reserved and yet at the same time accessible person that the common man could relate to. Those could be a very powerful political force as they also likely have stored a great deal of world-wisdom in their Si.

 

[meanlittlechimp]

Discussion on Lincoln and other presidents here:

An Interview with David Kiersey - INTP Central

 

[music_educe]

Historic document supports A. Lincoln: ISTP

I have been reading about Lincoln's life from the original sources. According to his law office partner, Hon. Wm. H. Herndon, of Springfield, Ill., he demonstrated many of the characteristics of an ISTP. The following website attests to his tendency toward introversion, practicality, and rationalism.

Six Historic Americans: Abraham Lincoln
Herndon stated:
"In the first place, Mr. Lincoln's mind was a purely logical mind; secondly, Mr. Lincoln was a purely practical man. He had no fancy or imagination, and not much emotion. He was a realist as opposed to an idealist. As a general rule, it is true that a purely logical mind has not much hope, if it ever has faith in the unseen and unknown. Mr. Lincoln had not much hope and no faith in things that lie outside of the domain of demonstration; he was so constituted, so organized, that he could believe nothing unless his senses or logic could reach it. I have often read to him a law point, a decision, or something I fancied. He could not understand it until he took the book out of my hand, and read the thing for himself He was terribly, vexatiously skeptical. He could scarcely understand anything, unless he had time and place fixed in his mind."

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Sergeant York - ISTP

 

[miss fortune]

I'm somehow surprized that nobody has come onto a thread with this title yet and typed "the only good Sensors!"

(and yes- I'd be insulted by that)

 

[Gabe]

Actually, I really suspect _SFP for lincoln. In his Journals display a use of introverted feeling, and his favorite activity (even when president) was hanging out with friends and telling dirty jokes. I think it also explains his falling out with General Mclellen. Lincoln never knew military strategy, and Mclellen never really bothered to teach him any, he just was a pompous jerk, and ignored Lincoln's very practical concern: "The confederate troops are north of Washington! Why are you still retreating after every battle?"

 

[Tiamat]

Actually, I really suspect _SFP for lincoln. In his Journals display a use of introverted feeling, and his favorite activity (even when president) was hanging out with friends and telling dirty jokes. I think it also explains his falling out with General Mclellen. Lincoln never knew military strategy, and Mclellen never really bothered to teach him any, he just was a pompous jerk, and ignored Lincoln's very practical concern: "The confederate troops are north of Washington! Why are you still retreating after every battle?"

Nope, he's definitely an NT. An xSFP under that amount of stress would switch to shadow mode and become an immature NTJ. Naturally, he'd appear as an ESFJ if he were in fact an INTP as I suspect.

 

[pure_mercury]

I keep seeing William McKinley and Bill Clinton as ESFJs. I guess Clinton was one of those ESFJs who used his charm for bad.

 

[Tiamat]

I keep seeing William McKinley and Bill Clinton as ESFJs. I guess Clinton was one of those ESFJs who used his charm for bad.

I'm going to have to keep an eye on your kind

 

[ygolo]

I have been reading about Lincoln's life from the original sources. According to his law office partner, Hon. Wm. H. Herndon, of Springfield, Ill., he demonstrated many of the characteristics of an ISTP. The following website attests to his tendency toward introversion, practicality, and rationalism.

Six Historic Americans: Abraham Lincoln
Herndon stated:
"In the first place, Mr. Lincoln's mind was a purely logical mind; secondly, Mr. Lincoln was a purely practical man. He had no fancy or imagination, and not much emotion. He was a realist as opposed to an idealist. As a general rule, it is true that a purely logical mind has not much hope, if it ever has faith in the unseen and unknown. Mr. Lincoln had not much hope and no faith in things that lie outside of the domain of demonstration; he was so constituted, so organized, that he could believe nothing unless his senses or logic could reach it. I have often read to him a law point, a decision, or something I fancied. He could not understand it until he took the book out of my hand, and read the thing for himself He was terribly, vexatiously skeptical. He could scarcely understand anything, unless he had time and place fixed in his mind."

That description reads more ISTJ to me, or a rather organized ISTP. Though that one in particular seems to come from someone who admired him specifically for his skepticsm. Still, I'm not sure if we aren't seeing a projection of John Remsburg in his own description of Lincoln.

Also, I believe George Washington is a notable ESFJ--known for his brilliant logistical talents.

Oh, I guess that ground has been covered. ISTJ?