[MBTI General] ISTP or INTP (Ne or Ni)

[pv255]

It's interesting to see all of this insight on the matter. i relate strongly to the Ni "aha!" moments that other ISTPs describe, and I'm surprised how strongly ISPs use their intuition. I've had tell-tale signs of an iNtuitive ever since I was a pretty young kid, even though I was mistrustful of my sudden gut-feelings. I'm still not sure how Ne works, so there's a possibility that I might have been using that all along. Can an INTP/ENTP/INFP/ENFP explain in a lot of detail how their Ne works and how it possibly differs from Ni?

Ne think in parallels. We make up analogies. We decrypt the relationship between a series of events and then find a similar relationship in other series of events. As we find more relationships in different event series we form theories. For instant, Issac Newton saw something fall. He saw other things fall and noticed the similarities, then he wrote his laws of motion. We observe little things and find truths that can be extrapolated.

Ni converge on ideas. They focus on what they know, rank options, and then chooses the best one. My mother and sister and INxJ's (mom is F, sister is T). They are always comparing and contrasting things. I think Rockefeller (others will disagree) was ENTJ. In my opinion if you look at any portion of Rockefeller's organization in isolation nothing was out of the ordinary, but the compilation of all the pieces was quite extraordinary. He looked at all the option for each job-function, ranked them, and choose the best one. He did this over and over and over again until Standard Oil and the model of the modern american corporation was born.

Like Jixmixfix said, Ni is crafty. They use their tools in new ways. Ne is innovative. We create tools.
From my experience with INTJ and myself, INTP.
Ni's think, choose, act. They are very confident, productive, and right enough.
Ne's observe, think, observe, think, maybe write something down, observe some more, test, think, write, observe, and then maybe act. We are very right.

 

[Randomnity]

Aren't we touchy

No. Se makes people popular in terms of "high school popular".

Note: If anybody thinks I am wrong about Se, feel free to correct me - I don't have personal xp.

As a Se-aux who attended high school, I feel free to correct you (after laughing my ass off).

Se might make you more attracted to playing sports (which I never did in HS, btw), but that does not equal popularity. In fact if you're female, it could directly harm popularity.

Se might be drawn towards different friend personalities than Ne (hard to say really) but I'm not sure why Se would have more friends than Ne, even in theory, either during high school or later in life.

 

[Randomnity]

Once I learned INTPs I realized I would never confuse myself as an INTP Hang out with INTPs and see how you do. When I first started I spent a month or 2 at INTPc, yeah...people would go to them for help and they would bend the person around MBTI theory instead of actually working with the person. I was like what the hell...why dont you just ask the person. They were to busy arguing about theory, havnt been back since. It seemed pointless and like there were always going about things backasswards.

This is a really good point. Hanging out on INTPC made it clear to me after a while that I was definitely not part of that group, despite finding the place in the first place after testing INTP and agreeing with the description.

Mind you, most (by no means all) of them are also really immature and antisocial, and many of them are INTJ, ISTJ, or even ISTP who think they are INTP, so YMMV.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Yeah, the "popular jocks" in high school are typically SJs and maybe ESP. ISTPs, if involved in sports, is likely to flit in and out of the "social scene" at will and just not really buy into it as something important to cultivate.

Also, I wouldn't use single type fora and populations are good indicators for types. It's like basing your opinion of women by solely observing their behavior at baby showers. Leave that to Hollywood.

 

[Istbkleta]

As a Se-aux who attended high school, I feel free to correct you (after laughing my ass off).

Se might make you more attracted to playing sports (which I never did in HS, btw), but that does not equal popularity. In fact if you're female, it could directly harm popularity.

Se might be drawn towards different friend personalities than Ne (hard to say really) but I'm not sure why Se would have more friends than Ne, even in theory, either during high school or later in life.

The ISTPs I know are all male. My mistake.

ISTPs underestimate themselves or rather your "animal magnetism". To my opinion a lack of social skills does not make somebody less popular among the opposite gender (true for male ISTPs).

 

[Poki]

Yeah, the "popular jocks" in high school are typically SJs and maybe ESP. ISTPs, if involved in sports, is likely to flit in and out of the "social scene" at will and just not really buy into it as something important to cultivate.

Also, I wouldn't use single type fora and populations are good indicators for types. It's like basing your opinion of women by solely observing their behavior at baby showers. Leave that to Hollywood.

I agree. I think a few ISTPs will make it into sports, but I wouldnt say they are the typical "Jocks". I was in martial arts, but in school I was nerdy and quiet.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Ne think in parallels. We make up analogies. We decrypt the relationship between a series of events and then find a similar relationship in other series of events. As we find more relationships in different event series we form theories.

Ni converge on ideas. They focus on what they know, rank options, and then chooses the best one. My mother and sister and INxJ's (mom is F, sister is T). They are always comparing and contrasting things.

Forgive my (probable) lack of Ne, but I'm a little confused. If Ni's compare and contrast, that means they easily see the parallels and connections between two things. An INTJ I know told me that he looks for common ground between two concepts and uses that to broaden his knowledge further--it's easier to learn when you see the connections between things. It seems like you're saying Ni is more aggressive and decisive (which is debatable, considering it's an introverted function). It makes sense that Ni's find new ways to use old things, but if Ne's make analogies and base their theories off of those observations, they're basically doing the same thing as Ni's, just with a somewhat different method. I believe Ne's still build off of common ground, but are more discreet about it (correct me if I'm wrong). Is there just a lot of overlap?

 

[pv255]

Forgive my (probable) lack of Ne, but I'm a little confused. If Ni's compare and contrast, that means they easily see the parallels and connections between two things. An INTJ I know told me that he looks for common ground between two concepts and uses that to broaden his knowledge further--it's easier to learn when you see the connections between things. It seems like you're saying Ni is more aggressive and decisive (which is debatable, considering it's an introverted function). It makes sense that Ni's find new ways to use old things, but if Ne's make analogies and base their theories off of those observations, they're basically doing the same thing as Ni's, just with a somewhat different method. I believe Ne's still build off of common ground, but are more discreet about it (correct me if I'm wrong). Is there just a lot of overlap?

Interesting. I've only read about how Ni works, so I don't know exactly. It makes sense that both Ni and Ne say they see connections between two seemly unrelated events, after all both are intuitive. I think the important part about it is where their information is coming from. Extraverted intuition makes those connections using observed data. Where as introverted intuition makes those connections with data from within, or experienced data. Ni connections are much different than Ne connections. I feel like they're looking for the best answer with limited possibilities, while I am looking for the right answer with limitless possibilities. I feel like they find patterns, while I find relationships. I'll think of some examples and share later.

This is just what I think. I'd be interested in hearing an INTJ's thoughts.

 

[pv255]

ops, double post

 

[RaptorWizard]

Is it possible that a lot of great intellectuals who are always typed as INTP are really ISTP, such as Charles Darwin or Leonardo da Vinci?

 

[Poki]

Forgive my (probable) lack of Ne, but I'm a little confused. If Ni's compare and contrast, that means they easily see the parallels and connections between two things. An INTJ I know told me that he looks for common ground between two concepts and uses that to broaden his knowledge further--it's easier to learn when you see the connections between things. It seems like you're saying Ni is more aggressive and decisive (which is debatable, considering it's an introverted function). It makes sense that Ni's find new ways to use old things, but if Ne's make analogies and base their theories off of those observations, they're basically doing the same thing as Ni's, just with a somewhat different method. I believe Ne's still build off of common ground, but are more discreet about it (correct me if I'm wrong). Is there just a lot of overlap?

They are simliar but Ni more understands where Ne builds. Ne doesnt build off a common ground they start at point A then leap to point B. Ni is standing at a distance making the connections between point 1.A and point 1.B where 1 is the basis of similarities. So there are some things that can be applied to both 1.A and 1.B that are true to a degree as long as you remove .A and .B qualities from the picture.

 

[Poki]

while I am looking for the right answer with limitless possibilities

And to Ni that comes across as shooting in the dark.

 

[pv255]

And to Ni that comes across as shooting in the dark.

Right, that is because they are shooting at something. Ne is not shooting. We just notices things, think we have an answer, and continuously test our answer. Ni starts with a goal, finds the best path, know they have the answer, and then moves on to the next goal.

 

[Istbkleta]

So where does Ni get the initial outside data to start off with? Se?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So where does Ni get the initial outside data to start off with? Se?

That must be why the Se and Ni are paired up. Then are Ne and Si paired so that Si can fill the holes in Ne with factual details? I'm definitely an Ni user; I'm given a system and then able to make 101 connections within the system itself. I suppose Ne just does its own thing? If it's extroverted, then what source does the information stem from? Ni's hate to have to go off their own leads completely, but Ne's are totally fine with that...why is that? Let's say you (an Ne) are given a blank piece of paper. How do you decide what to draw/do? Does it just come to you? I think an Ni would need a system first...and therefore would despise an assignment like that.

 

[pv255]

So where does Ni get the initial outside data to start off with? Se?

Humm. I dunno. As a kid you only use your dominate judging function. You develop your dominate perceiving function in your early teens, and your third function in your late teens and early twenties. I guess the initial Ni data collection starts with your community norms.

 

[pv255]

That must be why the Se and Ni are paired up. Then are Ne and Si paired so that Si can fill the holes in Ne with factual details? I'm definitely an Ni user; I'm given a system and then able to make 101 connections within the system itself. I suppose Ne just does its own thing? If it's extroverted, then what source does the information stem from? Ni's hate to have to go off their own leads completely, but Ne's are totally fine with that...why is that? Let's say you (an Ne) are given a blank piece of paper. How do you decide what to draw/do? Does it just come to you? I think an Ni would need a system first...and therefore would despise an assignment like that.

What would I draw on a blank piece of paper?... haha, nothing. I'd sit there and watch what the other guy is doing.

 

[StephMC]

^ pssshhh...

I would struggle with a task like that. But my Se would be screaming "BE CREATIVE! BE CREATIVE!" so I'd eventually get something down.

 

[Randomnity]

Is it possible that a lot of great intellectuals who are always typed as INTP are really ISTP, such as Charles Darwin or Leonardo da Vinci?

I don't know about da Vinci, but Darwin is consistently typed as ISTP, from my recollection. It seems likely from what little I know of him.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So where does Ni get the initial outside data to start off with? Se?

Can you explain how you access or jumpstart your Ne? An ISTP goes for a walk outside or does something physical and his/her Se starts becoming very active. What is it that an Ne user has to do?