[NF] Why Do NFs Apologize So Much?

[Totenkindly]

Sigh. The one thing I see in common in literally every NF I talk to online or in real life is that, as soon as they come out with a strong reaction to something, as soon as I push back on it (in a nice but firm way), they back-pedal and just seem to fold on me.

(I think Toonie is the only NF I can think of off the top of my head who does not consistently do this... but she always had to be different, you know. )

Sometimes NFs apologize to me just for expressing their viewpoint. My one RL friend apologizes to me for "getting angry" or "raising his voice" -- and somehow I missed his entire debacle. Even his worst outrages don't even equal half of the normal human being's slight glimmer of irritation.

I love y'all to death, NFs are some of my favorite people! Definitely more sufferable than some of the NTJ stuff that goes on.

But I don't understand. Why? I mean, I even love how sensitive NFs are to people in general... but sometimes it gets frustrating, when I want to talk about something or a discussion really needs to be had, or would be beneficial, so I "push" a little bit or just plunge into the conversation -- and instead of matching the push, the NFs just melt away.

Just... Oh, I don't know.

 

[Kyrielle]

Because we beat ourselves up about it very, very hard.

Makes us feel...brutish to have a strong, negative reaction to something.

Well, that's me anyway.

 

[Varelse]

Interesting-I tend to have the same experience with NFs in general-though I've also gotten chewed out by them on occasion for being too hard on myself.

They're cute when they're chewing me out. It lets me know that they have a spine.

 

[targobelle]

yeah what she said.....


I hate confrontation..... hate hate hate it.... yup that I do.....

Sometimes I think that if I have an opinion that goes against yours then you will be offended by it and then won't like me anymore.... You know Jen my husband has the exact same complaint, that I never fight, that I back down too early and too easily, it's a pet peeve of his towards me.

 

[Totenkindly]

It's not even like I want a "fight," it is usually not personal (which the word "fight" connotates to me) -- even if the topic involves people(!). I don't like "fights" where suddenly everything is personal.

I usually am just wanting the ideas to be tested and stretched, to see if they make any sense...

As far as not being liked...?

I know that I can sometimes find someone annoying if I think their idea is stupid or cruel, but even then, that emotion just sort of 'sits off to the side' -- it is not the primary thing driving my conversation with that person, it's just another piece of data to be taken into account, and I still instinctively try to converse based on what is being said, not how I feel about the other person.

So it is possible to not like someone, or to simply be frustrated with them, but still act very decently and openly with them...

Still, I know what it's like to be scared to contribute, fearing rejection. It can seem like a mountain sometimes.

 

[Park]

Why Do NFs Apologize So Much?

For some Fs, it seems like a generel attitude - like a way to make *absolutely 100%* sure no toes were stepped on.

It's not only the apologizes which can drive me mad but also the *running around the case* instead of *cutting to the case*.

I posted this on the INFPglobal once:
LOL - these last years, I have tried hard to develop my patience with well-meaning waffling feelers - especially in work situations.

Here's an example:
Knock knock on door.
T: Yes.
F: Park, do you have a moment?
T: Yes.
F: Am I disturbing.
T: No.
F: I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask you this. I know you have a lot on your mind today. However, if it's not too much trouble....... I'm *not* saying it has to be today nor tomorrow and if you would rather I came back and asked another time that's fine.........

I think it's cute. I understand the considerate thoughts behind this behaviour.......but gosh it can annoy me.

Similar to when I receive an e.mail which I expect contains some bad respond or bad news. I quickly skim through the bla bla..... until I react *however* or *but*.

E.g.
Dear Park
While we have enjoyed working with your company and have appreciated the interpersonal contact.........are *still* open to co-working with you in the future bla bla .......
bla
bla
bla

However...........and it's after the *however* the essential part starts.

 

[targobelle]

But to me as an NF Jennifer everything is personal, everything is internalized... I am an Fi. Any source of emotion that comes at me is processed within me thus making it personal.

 

[Totenkindly]

But to me as an NF Jennifer everything is personal, everything is internalized... I am an Fi. Any source of emotion that comes at me is processed within me thus making it personal.

I know... sigh... it's just so... different (!).

 

[substitute]

Because we beat ourselves up about it very, very hard.

Makes us feel...brutish to have a strong, negative reaction to something.

Well, that's me anyway.

Doesn't it occur to you to actually look at the person you're talking to and let them be the judge of what they find brutish or harsh?

I know someone for example, who is constantly apologising for 'imposing' on me (ie coming to visit me when I've invited her!), when I feel no imposition at all. I say 'C'mon, stop apologizing, you're fine, it's okay', I invited you after all didn't I?', and she'll insist that she must be such a burden on me because I'm so busy and have so much on my plate and I don't need this extra burden and blah blah blah, and I just feel like shaking her and saying "FFS! In comparison with the shit I have on my plate, what you're talking about is real small-fry and not even slightly emotionally taxing for me, so will you let me be the judge of how much I can take on, please?!"

Of course, I don't. I just stand there not knowing what to say really, cos if I raise an objection and tell her how her apologizing is frustrating me, she'll just start feeling bad for making me frustrated, and think she's an even bigger burden...

So I understand your complaint Jennifer... and that you're not necessarily talking about things involving conflict.

 

[targobelle]

I know... sigh... it's just so... different (!).

it's not easy being an NF in this world nor is it any easier being an Fi. I have to embrace the Fi, learn to accept and make it work as it will be a natural gift. Yet the world isn't ready for Fi, nope not there. The world yells at you to grow a 'set' and think with objectivity and logic. Shocking it is. Confused Hell is my thoughts on it

 

[RDF]

Sigh. The one thing I see in common in literally every NF I talk to online or in real life is that, as soon as they come out with a strong reaction to something, as soon as I push back on it (in a nice but firm way), they back-pedal and just seem to fold on me.

(I think Toonie is the only NF I can think of off the top of my head who does not consistently do this... but she always had to be different, you know. )

Sometimes NFs apologize to me just for expressing their viewpoint. My one RL friend apologizes to me for "getting angry" or "raising his voice" -- and somehow I missed his entire debacle. Even his worst outrages don't even equal half of the normal human being's slight glimmer of irritation.

I love y'all to death, NFs are some of my favorite people! Definitely more sufferable than some of the NTJ stuff that goes on.

But I don't understand. Why? I mean, I even love how sensitive NFs are to people in general... but sometimes it gets frustrating, when I want to talk about something or a discussion really needs to be had, or would be beneficial, so I "push" a little bit or just plunge into the conversation -- and instead of matching the push, the NFs just melt away.

Just... Oh, I don't know.

I don't apologize as much as some NFs. But I'll willingly and happily abandon an argument upon encountering a little push-back.

I'll usually give one run-through of my side of the argument; if my position doesn't get any traction with the other party, then I'll drop it. I'm not going to spend a day typing messages to a stranger trying to tell him something he doesn't want to hear.

Arguing is a low priority with me. If anything, I need the other party to evince some obvious openmindedness and desire to hear more before I'll invest time and energy in an exchange.

Also, I don't feel bad backing off an argument. There's no loss of pride there. Since arguing is a low priority, my self-esteem isn't invested in the idea of winning or losing arguments.

FL

 

[cafe]

We are individuals but we make up an organism as well and what hurts you hurts me in some way too. It only makes sense to be conscious and cautious of the feelings of others.

 

[Hanzuu]

I feel like I might offend people when I talk. I dont want to really hurt them in any way since I start taking things way too personally. I really do take stuff too personal. I even sometimes speak/write in a apologizing way when I shop in shops. Especially internet ones. Like I'm wasting the clerks time.
I'm trying to quit it since it's somewhat annoying. You know I went on half pages before I got to the actual point the worst time when I was wondering did they actually sell this thing or not. And the answer was nearly as bad.

And Park.. That sounds like me on my worst times. It actually does that.
I dont really go immediately on the topic I go on like "I wonder could I ask you to consider doing this if you have the time. I dont mind if you dont.
However it would make it faster to do this and this, so I wonder if I could ask you to do this paper for me?"
I do hear from people about it sometimes.

 

[substitute]

it's not easy being an NF in this world nor is it any easier being an Fi. I have to embrace the Fi, learn to accept and make it work as it will be a natural gift. Yet the world isn't ready for Fi, nope not there. The world yells at you to grow a 'set' and think with objectivity and logic. Shocking it is. Confused Hell is my thoughts on it

Do you really believe this? I'm not provoking or being confrontational here, I'm just curious, cos to me it always felt like quite the opposite - I've always felt that I was hated on for my detachment and objectivity and I've felt constant pressure all my life from people calling me 'cold' and assuming that my detachment from my own interests means I don't care about anyone else, and it seems when I watch TV everything is screaming at me that life is all about hugging and loving and friendship and feelings, and real men show their feelings and all this stuff... I hadn't really thought that it might seem the opposite to an opposite type...

 

[targobelle]

Do you really believe this? I'm not provoking or being confrontational here, I'm just curious, cos to me it always felt like quite the opposite - I've always felt that I was hated on for my detachment and objectivity and I've felt constant pressure all my life from people calling me 'cold' and assuming that my detachment from my own interests means I don't care about anyone else, and it seems when I watch TV everything is screaming at me that life is all about hugging and loving and friendship and feelings, and real men show their feelings and all this stuff... I hadn't really thought that it might seem the opposite to an opposite type...

yes I really believe this..... honestly I do.

I have also married a very strong minded ENTP. And I am different with him than the world as is he with me. He really drills in my need for more logic, thus I always feel forced to be someone I am not. Only one person (an older intj actually) enjoys the NF qualities I have and my Fi.....

 

[Kyrielle]

Doesn't it occur to you to actually look at the person you're talking to and let them be the judge of what they find brutish or harsh?

Yes. It does. But that doesn't stop the incredible and overwhelming need to punish myself for sticking a toe out of line. I'm like the preacher in the Scarlet Letter who whips himself in the back of the church as punishment. Sounds pathetic doesn't it.

It's very hard to let things go and just say something and without regretting it almost immediately.

 

[Meursault]

because we are hard wired to do to so?

 

[Maverick]

It could sounds to me as though ENTJ's would be NF's worst nightmare. In practice, NF's tend to be somewhat more comfortable debating with ENTJ's than they are with other NT's. This has been, at least, my personal experience. I've always managed to have good discussions with them without them getting upset. I think they realize I really won't mind them at all giving their opinion and that I will actually like them more for it.

However, no matter how logical you are about things, it is always nice when someone agrees with you, understands your point of view and is considerate (apologizing, etc.). You may deny your feelings as much as you want but I believe you're still affected - the difference with F's is that it doesn't tend to register for NT's. Sometimes, NF's may even know NT's emotional reactions better than NT's do themselves.

 

[proteanmix]

Wow. I must be an atypical NF.

 

[substitute]

yes I really believe this..... honestly I do.

I have also married a very strong minded ENTP. And I am different with him than the world as is he with me. He really drills in my need for more logic, thus I always feel forced to be someone I am not. Only one person (an older intj actually) enjoys the NF qualities I have and my Fi.....

That just sucks... for you I mean

FWIW, I often look to people like you as role models, cos unlike some people who take their MBTI type as an excuse to lean even more towards their preferences, I tend to use it as a way to see where my failings and weaknesses are and work on them. And since I know my weaknesses involve sometimes seeming cold and detached and overly analytical, I tend to look towards warm, caring and kind people as role models.

I think it's wrong for your husband to be that way with you, and I reckon most people would agree. It doesn't sound like a very ENTP-ish trait to me, to be so controlling and unaccepting of diversity. To me it's like a fundamental part of me to completely accept people as they are and not try to change them.