Success

[Coriolis]

I was just wondering why you grew defensive about yourself when I mocked you. Normally you could have said something like: "Well, if you want to know more boring J stuff, hand me over your phone number". Or something in the line that puts you on a higher psychological position than me or that shows your strength and your personal happiness with the way you are.

Funny what you consider defensive. My "example" was really just facetious, though not untrue. I often counter mocking by leveling - stating "just the facts". To me this is a higher psychological position, but I wasn't really measuring.

Do you know what I mean ? This is entp human science . What do you think ? Nobel prize ?

No, oxymoron.

 

[entropie]

Funny what you consider defensive. My "example" was really just facetious, though not untrue. I often counter mocking by leveling - stating "just the facts". To me this is a higher psychological position, but I wasn't really measuring.

Intresting, guess I have to learn too that not everyone wants a piece of me

 

[King sns]

Is success important to you? In the sense of career?

Or, if you're a romantic, life.

Actually, what IS success??

Answer: success is money. Because if you don't have money, you die, & will therefore be unsuccessful, unless you're still able to get everything you need because you're a clever thief, hunter, moocher, or vagabond-- though you'll still be unsuccessful then, in society's eyes.

Sad but true.

Success is eluding me at the moment.

I am somewhat depressed about it.

DO U WANT SUCXESS

Yes. I think of success in terms of power and ability to make changes and have your voice heard. I picture someone at the top of and apartment building stomping a few times, and everyone below them stomping in return, all the way down the line. You can easily make some sort of a ripple in the water. (For some reason I think whacking a broom at the ceiling is harder than just stomping, and I have no idea that whenever I think of success I think of an apartment building/ no idea where the heck that came from.)

So anyway, that ends up often being the equivalent of climbing the career ladder and making more money as a side effect. For me, it's never good enough. I should have learned that by now, but once I reach my "end goal" there are 20 other goals that come with it, so I'm always living in this elusive end goal in my mind, (which spider off into all different directions, which can get a little confusing- which road to choose.) So yes, I guess you could say that success is important to me whether I want it to be or not. In an ideal world, it's like everything I say would resonate like it's going through a loudspeaker that the whole world could hear and people were acting on whatever I said.

 

[Usehername]

I was just wondering why you grew defensive about yourself when I mocked you. Normally you could have said something like: "Well, if you want to know more boring J stuff, hand me over your phone number". Or something in the line that puts you on a higher psychological position than me or that shows your strength and your personal happiness with the way you are.

instead tho you immediantly grew defensive about your person and even made a huge case by giving a concrete example ("havent been bored since I was 8").

Normally this shows my entp sensors that the person in question is insecure or unhappy with him- herself or that something isnt right. A healthy person would just block mocking and laugh about my attempt.

Do you know what I mean ? This is entp human science . What do you think ? Nobel prize ?

Depends. I think some people, especially females, in some politer cultures aren't socialized into this friendly ribbing. I notice it when I play sports with my American guy friends, they mock each other and sometimes me and I still have this half-moment when I have to remind myself it's all competitive friendly joking around.

 

[Pinker85]

I think success is living my life honestly and accomplishing the goals I've set for myself.

I'm pragmatic enough to realize money is important to living. I have things I want to do in life that require money because I'm not skilled enough to gain sponsorship in them. I want to mountaineer. I want to get into technical diving (I'd really like to be the first woman to dive below 800ft). I want to fund a school or learning clinic at some point. I'm strongly drawn to and fulfilled emotionally by experiencing things that have a journeying aspect to them.

Success is accomplishing my goals in a way honest to my value system. Things aren't ever going to be perfect so the challenge is figuring out how to work with the messiness and imperfectness of life - create things/experiences that I find meaningful. Part of my value system is that people should be treated with dignity and respect - it is very fulfilling for me to help people fulfill their potential (that wording sounds a little judgmental) and feel good about themselves. I like making people feel good about themselves. I also though see how I can be demanding, perfectionistic, insecure, and unforgiving which are things I need to work on (part of why I think success for me and honestly living my experience (my irritation with others has nothing to do with them - it is my own deal) are in a way - one in the same). Success for me would be my business thriving and creating an environment in which people (including myself) thrive and grow.

 

[Giggly]

I am happy when I feel secure and stable. I dislike feeling insecure and unstable. This does not mean being rich, because comfort is more important to me than wealth, nor does it only have to do with money. It has to do with many things. So I do things that ensure my own security and stability. I'm learning to remove things out of my life that make me feel insecure and unstable.

 

[jixmixfix]

I am happy when I feel secure and stable. I dislike feeling insecure and unstable. This does not mean being rich, because comfort is more important to me than wealth, nor does it only have to do with money It has to do with many things. So I do things that ensure my own security and stability. I'm learning to remove things out of my life that make me feel insecure and unstable.

Sounds like something a typical SJ would say/want.

 

[Giggly]

Sounds like something a typical SJ would say/want.

I thought people assume that all SJs are status conscious and materialistic?
I know I could care less about those things.

I actually had a debate with someone the other day because they were trying to force me to care about those things (because they cared about it). But I just don't.

 

[tinker683]

I am happy when I feel secure and stable. I dislike feeling insecure and unstable. This does not mean being rich, because comfort is more important to me than wealth, nor does it only have to do with money. It has to do with many things. So I do things that ensure my own security and stability. I'm learning to remove things out of my life that make me feel insecure and unstable.

+1. You and me both, could not have put it better myself.

Sounds like something a typical SJ would say/want.

Pretty much

I thought people assume that all SJs are status conscious and materialistic?
I know I could care less about those things.

I actually had a debate with someone the other day because they were trying to force me to care about those things (because they cared about it). But I just don't.

Not to veer off topic but both of those things are important to me but only a little bit. Both have their uses.

 

[jixmixfix]

I thought people assume that all SJs are status conscious and materialistic?
I know I could care less about those things.

I actually had a debate with someone the other day because they were trying to force me to care about those things (because they cared about it). But I just don't.

Hmmm no, I don't think that is necessarily SJ I think SJS want/need security and comfort for the most part. Being materialistic is more of a psychological disorder probably has something to do with being narcissistic. I notice SJs love consistency if something they care about is consistent they are happy. This of course makes for a boring and dull way of living.

 

[tinker683]

Hmmm no, I don't think that is necessarily SJ I think SJS want/need security and comfort for the most part. Being materialistic is more of a psychological disorder probably has something to do with being narcissistic. I notice SJs love consistency if something they care about is consistent they are happy. This of course makes for a boring and dull way of living.

Which is why we like you SPs so much, to make things interesting and new!

(Also, don't care if you're a dude or not, you're still getting a hug)

 

[jixmixfix]

Which is why we like you SPs so much, to make things interesting and new!

(Also, don't care if you're a dude or not, you're still getting a hug)

 

[tinker683]

DON'T RUN FROM YOUR FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELINGS!!!!

 

[Giggly]

Hmmm no, I don't think that is necessarily SJ I think SJS want/need security and comfort for the most part. Being materialistic is more of a psychological disorder probably has something to do with being narcissistic. I notice SJs love consistency if something they care about is consistent they are happy. This of course makes for a boring and dull way of living.

lol

I think that depends on what your default state is. I think my default state is a little chaotic and I don't like that, it makes me unhappy, so I put my efforts towards consistency and stability, and when I experience it, I'm happier.

And I second [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION] 's love of SP's.

 

[Betty Blue]

you're an NTP, you need to experiment and blow things up also for life satisfaction

Wait,... i wanna blow shit up, just to see what happens.
I wanna throw yellow paint over the main road and roll in it.

Sucess does not = money.
I think desire and ambition are more important...to have something to aspire to...to keep you going...driven.

 

[highlander]

Actually, what IS success??

DO U WANT SUCXESS

Read Tuesdays with Morrie.

 

[Elisius]

I define my success by my ideals and ethics, that I believe and do what is right and what benefits humanity as a whole.
Success is a beneficial mark on this world.
There is no end to success because there can be no objective that doesn't transcend one person's life or lifetime. You could say then, that there is no success, but there is, success is in the attempt, the journey, the reaching for even if never to grasp.
Advancement and progress, that is success.

 

[entropie]

I define my success by my ideals and ethics, that I believe and do what is right and what benefits humanity as a whole.
Success is a beneficial mark on this world.
There is no end to success because there can be no objective that doesn't transcend one person's life or lifetime. You could say then, that there is no success, but there is, success is in the attempt, the journey, the reaching for even if never to grasp.
Advancement and progress, that is success.

So you wont rest until they are all Borg ?

 

[Elisius]

So you wont rest until they are all Borg ?

Hahahaha!
I wouldn't take it that far, I don't think. Admittedly, I am intrigued at the idea of a hive mind, but I think it stifles further development and creativity that our 'inferior individualism' can afford us.
Freedom and individuality are things that make people happy, to take those away would defeat the entire purpose of whatever you were taking them away to do because, at least in my opinion, happiness is the bottom line.
I guess I misspoke before, advancement and progress are success only so long as they are advancing and progressing sustainable human happiness and longevity.

 

[entropie]

Hahahaha!
I wouldn't take it that far, I don't think. Admittedly, I am intrigued at the idea of a hive mind, but I think it stifles further development and creativity that our 'inferior individualism' can afford us.
Freedom and individuality are things that make people happy, to take those away would defeat the entire purpose of whatever you were taking them away to do because, at least in my opinion, happiness is the bottom line.
I guess I misspoke before, advancement and progress are success only so long as they are advancing and progressing sustainable human happiness and longevity.

I came to know from experience that the greatest challenge for an idealist in life can be accepting that another person can have a completly un-idealistic opinion. Many extreme "green" parties in my country have an idealistic worldview that is nice and that everybody would want but that would never align with human nature. I as a realist, try to factor in the ugly side of life as well and I try to think of it as part of our existence. It's like the World presented in Bladerunner, ugly, dirty and filthy but still loveable cause there is hope.

I dont want to imply that you do not think that way, it was just what came to my mind when I read your post. Sadly many strong idealists live in some sort of dream World from my PoV and I tend to think of that as escapism from the real World.