the personality cafe questionnaire

[bluestripes]

on the MBTI tests i have done so far, i’ve scored as an INxP (with pronounced N and P and weak introversion). however, after i started to read more about the various types, i began to have more doubts as to how accurate this really is. i wonder how you would define my type based on these answers.

*

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

i seem to be a collection of contradictory – or mutually exclusive – traits. what i am does make sense to myself, on an instinctual level, but i wonder whether there might be an explanation for my being that way.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

right now my goals are very specific:

1) i want to finish a sci-fi book i've been writing with a co-author for several years, complete the constructed language that is to go with it, and see both published;

2) i want to do all the cross-stitching projects i have planned (of which there is a lot, owing to my habit of chronic procrastination);

3) i want to find a man whom i would see as a suitable mate, marry him (or just start living together) and give birth to a child. if this doesn't work out, i would settle for an agreement with a man to make me pregnant, after which i would raise the baby on my own.

for a variety of reasons, i think it would be pointless to look further than this for the time being.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

i was fifteen and had just finished high school (i graduated slightly earlier than most). i had no idea what was going to happen to me; i don’t think i could even imagine what university life would be like, because of how sheltered i had been before, but this, in itself, made me excited. the future was a dark, thrilling enigma. i would look forward to each coming day and inwardly urge time to fly by faster, so i could finally discover *what* was waiting for me. i was full of half-formed dreams i could not define even for myself. everything seemed to be breathing, losing its solidity; the leaves on the trees glowed with an internal light of their own, the sensation of the wind lifting my sarong and touching my bare legs was intoxicating and i felt so light i could well have been floating a few inches off the ground. i was happy, whole, at one with myself and my surroundings, and more friendly and outgoing than ever before.

i know that i was probably having a hypomanic episode (i am suspected bipolar), but i still think of this as a time when i was happiest.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

in my teens and early twenties, i used to feel inferior because i felt powerless. my parents were rather controlling and pressured me into accepting the choices they saw most fit for me. at the time, i wasn't strong enough to just tell them to mind their own business, so the only way i would retain my sense of self was through passive aggression, i.e. refusing to become what my parents wanted to see me as, and, at the same time, taking no real action to make my own dreams come true. it went as far as my failing at elementary hygiene (not brushing my teeth until they darkened, not combing my hair until it became tangled and i had to cut out entire strands, changing my clothes once a month or so, only once they would start to smell and would become drenched in sweat) just because my mother thought a woman’s appearance was of paramount importance, and was not particularly fond of my body shape. i felt as if i was betraying myself by behaving in this manner and was ashamed of my own weakness.

these days, i no longer feel inferior. thankfully.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

my understanding of what is "right" and "wrong". hurting other people does qualify as wrong for me, so i will take this into account.

i used to be much more impulsive in the past, and would rely mostly on my “sixth sense” and my feelings about the situation (which i frequently was unable to identify or describe to others). there are two areas where i still act on impulse: gift-giving and shopping (for presents, flowers, postcards, food that falls into the “mood food” or “comfort food” category, objects that have an emotional significance for me, such as collectable tiny glass figurines, glass ornaments or soft toys, art or craft supplies, and, on occasion, clothes that i particularly like). both of these are directly connected to my sense of emotional well-being.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

i focus on the process itself. after all, this is the only way to ensure that the outcome is as excellent as possible.

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

i’m not sure this qualifies as fun – “warm”, “special” or “emotionally intense” might be better descriptions – but each of the many evenings i have spent with a friend would do.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

it depends on what i am learning, but i think it is most vital for me to be able to visualize the material. while studying ethics i see certain situations in my mind, the choices one could make or the ways one could behave, and the feelings one would be likely to experience (or, in general, the feelings caused by specific types of human behavior). while learning a foreign language, i do the exercises in writing and make a summary of each grammar section, which i can then write down several times over and/or type out in MSWord. having the written text in front of me ensures that the learning is fast and very efficient.

hands-on learning is useful, but not necessary. for example, if i want to learn a new recipe, i will be fine as long as i can imagine all the required ingredients (what they look like, myself reaching for the shelf to get them or buying them at the department store or the farmers’ market, etc.) and the process of cooking (standing at the table and doing the chopping, slicing or mixing, pouring water into the pot, heating it with the flame tuned to a specific height, etc.). i do not have to watch a cook carry out these actions or to repeat them.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

i am the very opposite of “organized”. at university i used to be dreadful at observing deadlines and would habitually miss them and submit my work several days late (i don’t envy the tutors who had to deal with this – i guess they were very generous in that they not only accepted my assignments but also gave me positive assessments). whenever there is a task i need to do, i tend to delay it until the very last moment. then, if i am lucky, i will have an insane outburst of energy, during which i will sit down, concentrate as much as i can and complete the whole task in a matter of hours. if i am not, i will feel crushed and hide from the person for whom i was supposed to do the task, or write apologetic emails until the issue is resolved. i wrote both my BA and my MA theses in this manner; there is a saying here that a typical student spends no more than two weeks on a final paper, and i did just that. usually, i would write on the night before the scheduled meeting with my supevisor, and i remember “giving birth” to the introduction and conclusions of my MA paper at an internet cafe, just minutes before i had to hand in the final version. surprisingly, i got an 8 (on a ten-point scale).

my room is sheer (un)inspired chaos – there are stick-on notes everywhere telling me to do this or that (though, of course, i forget to look at them when i have to), my desk is covered in open books and sheets of paper with something scribbled on them, there are clothes strewn all over my mattress bed and chairs and occasionally on the floor as well. i may neglect it so much that there will be a thick layer of dust on my table and book shelves and the PC keyboard becomes so dirty it is difficult to see which key is which. then, once a month or so, i will suddenly notice this and spend the whole day tidying up. if i do start doing this, i become obsessive about cleaning out each tiny stain or each mote of dust, even those of them that would have gone unnoticed by somebody else, so that in the end everything is shining. not for long, though. i allow a heap of dirty cutlery and utensils to collect in the kitchen sink; then, when the heap becomes huge and starts to smell, and i no longer have anything to eat with, i will spend an hour or two doing the dishes.

i read books in random snippets, starting at the final pages or in the middle. i rarely have the patience to read a book consistently from the beginning to the end like most other people i know, even if i find it extremely engaging.

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

it would depend on the idea itself and the sphere it belongs to. if it’s a theological concept, i would most certainly focus on whether or not it makes sense within the larger conceptual framework i am using as a basis (and also on the emotions connected to it); if it is a biological hypothesis, i would try to determine whether it is based on any factual data obtained through observation.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

i don’t tend to meddle in group dynamics. i think i can only focus on one individual at a time; if i am within a group, i tend to concentrate on a single member and lose track of the others. when it comes to others feeling well, yes, i do care about that – for instance, if i come to work and hear a colleague complaining about being sick, i will feel concerned and will try to suggest something they might want to do to get better, if i can.

being myself and following my values and beliefs is what i do always regardless of the situation, so i should think this is more important for me.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

ideally, i do like to think before i speak. this might mean that i have to talk slowly, but i don’t mind. however, when i am feeling uptight or tired, i tend to do the opposite and say the first thing that comes to mind, which may or may not make sense (and is often less than nice).

i definitely prefer meeting my friends one at a time, rather than in a group. what i really like are lengthy conversations with a single friend, most commonly at some cozy pub or while taking a stroll together. i feel this is the only way to communicate in the genuine sense of that word, and to form a certain lasting bond. i don't think i could do the same in a group; all the more so my friends are all very different and there are few topics that would interest all of them at once, save for the most superficial ones.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

these days i like to be cautious and to consider all the advantages and disadvantages before i reach a decision. shopping, giving gifts to friends and treating them to dinner are the major exceptions.

actions do speak louder than words. i don’t mind people who avoid discussing their relationships and feelings for each other altogether, as long as they actually do something to show that they care. and i feel revolted when people talk about feelings without actually meaning what they say.

sometimes i wonder whether the word “love” should be banned for a while both from literature and everyday discourse. it’s such a valuable word, but one constantly hears it being uttered by those who have no idea what it stands for, just because it sounds glorious.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

i'll choose to go out with my friends. i can always watch the show when it is repeated, or download it from a torrent; it can wait. my friends, on the other hand, may not have the time to see me later on, and the same may be true for myself. it's best to make use of any opportunity to socialize as soon as it presents itself.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

as a rule, i talk non-stop, to a point where it becomes very difficult to shut me up; i say many redundant phrases without thinking, break off in mid-sentence, forget what i had just been saying, repeat things i had already stated again and again, and struggle and fail to find the right words. i also tend to use a horrible pidgin consisting of russian, english and lithuanian expressions. i would not be sure that it's always possible to understand me.

i may also become restless and start thinking obsessively about the stressful situation (or, rather, imagining that situation, its possible outcomes and the ways i might act to resolve it).

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

the following qualities:

* when one coerces or forces others into subcribing to one’s own vision of the world;

* when one projects one’s own desires, dreams or fears onto another person and lives vicariously through them, as if they were a (metaphorical) ventriloquist’s dummy;

* outright physical violence;

* when one attempts to force another person to accept one’s point of view, citing “arguments” that are rife with logical fallacies, and, in fact, are not proper arguments at all.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

i like to discuss anything – my and my friends’ personal lives, what we have been doing lately, our hobbies and interests, general subjects such as philosophical and ethical issues, books we have read, shows or movies we have watched, the characters and their behavior, our pets. all of this is engaging and helps create a stronger mutual connection.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?

my physical appearance. on the one hand, i feel somewhat dissociated from my body, because it has been used in the past to manipulate me, and am still trying to develop a better awareness of it. on the other, i refuse to be an object whose “packaging” has to be perfect. if someone is really interested in me, they should be able to see and appreciate what is inside; but if the “wrapping” is all that matters to them, i want them out of my life. now.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?

my friends’ opinions of me are very different, so much that it is sometimes hard to believe they are talking about the same individual. i think each of them could be right in her own way, though.

friend nr. 1 says that at first, when we had just met, she thought me very odd. she was somewhat wary of me, too, as i seemed to have a cold, hard quality she found difficult to pinpoint. it took a while for her to get used to me, but now that she has, she just appreciates me and tries to accept me for who i am. however, she has admitted that there is an intense vibe about me which feels “too much”, at times, and that my presence makes her reflect on various issues when she doesn’t want to do so, so she often avoids me.

friend nr. 2 thinks i am nice, sweet and a somewhat helpless, probably due to poor social adjustment. she says i am what could be translated as a “space cadet” and is, more often than not, fairly overprotective toward me.

friend nr. 3 summed me up in two phrases: "friend to all living things" (i personally would have changed this to "good with animals, not (so) good with people", but there it is) and "cloud cuckoolander", a la luna lovegood or winifred burkle. i do agree with the last one.

friend nr. 4 thinks that i am very outgoing, fond of simple pleasures such as good food or drink. she envies me a little because she thinks i have a much easier time expressing my emotions and getting them out of my system than she does. but then she thinks i am a doormat because of the way i have allowed my parents to take advantage of me. she also thinks me somewhat on the stupid side (not so much because my thinking is weak, but because i never bothered to develop it) and lacking in imagination. by this she means both that i have literal difficulty imagining some situations, and that some of them, such as scenes of torture, are too shocking for me and i stop and go no further.

i'm not sure what my friends would never say about me - i cannot read their minds.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

it would depend on how i feel, whether or not i have had enough sleep and feel the same chronic exhaustion that i’ve been struggling with over the last several years, but supposing that i am in fine shape, i would start the day with something that requires more concentration (reading, embroidery, the scenes from the book i’m currently working on). then i would go the gym and train at the heavyweight athletics hall until i feel tired, after which i would do a few rounds at the sauna and possibly swim for a while in the pool. in the evening, just as it starts to grow dark, i would call a friend to go to a quiet pub to have a chat and a good solid dinner with a couple of beers.

of course, i doubt that i could ever be this organized. most of my days off are similar, except i manage to do just one or two of these activities and waste the rest of the time on, well, i am not even sure what.

 

[Haight]

Did you share your criticism with the people at Personality Cafe? Posting it here seems misplaced.

To be honest, I really don't care how accurate their test is, but then I wouldn't expect it to be accurate in the first place.

 

[Bamboozle]

I didn't read any criticism of any test from Personality Cafe in the OP. It sounded like the usual skepticism directed to all MBTI tests, actually.

It's difficult to say. What type do you think you are? I would suggest something with Fe in it, so not P at all. Not T, neither.

IxFJ? Just my feeling.

EDIT: Ah, I see you have another post. They seemed to think ISFP. I thought it was a more INFJ-ish thing to do to speak of 'vibes' the way you did, actually. I could be completely off.

 

[bluestripes]

Bamboozle:

until recently, i used to agree for the most part with the INFP assessment. i appear to match the profile some 95 percent (though what remains doesn't fit the picture altogether). among other things, the NP combination seemed to explain why i am so disorganized - but then, on the other hand, there is much more to being an xNxP type than just that. and now that i've been reading the additional information on the other types, i do seem to match most of the ISFP profile as well, along with some parts of the INFJ one and perhaps a small portion of the one for ISFJ.

i guess i'm sure at this point that i am an introvert (no matter how outgoing i might be, i do tend to respond more, rather than be the first to initiate interaction, i prefer one-on-one socializing to socializing in groups, and i need to have some time to myself) and that there has to be an F somewhere in there. the rest is debatable.

the part about "vibes" is difficult to describe. often, when i am around a specific person, i sense their feelings and they are almost palpable, more like a physical sensation (though this doesn't guarantee that i will be able to articulate them - if anything, that sensation is very raw, it is just "something" that is there). i'm not sure what personality pattern this might indicate.

 

[Bamboozle]

I don't suppose you've read much about the functions themselves? It's just that, beyond a certain point, it's just easier to dig deeper into the theories. After all, the types are based on the functions. If you take the functions out, MBTI is just a vague descriptor of personalities…that don't necessarily capture all that much .

I'll focus on what you said about vibes. I read once that INFPs could sit in a room and intuitively know which way everyone was 'facing' in terms of moods and feelings. They seem to be really interested in getting to the 'heart' or 'core' of someone's feelings. They don't necessarily know how to communicate that understanding, though, I think. Fi doesn't really set you up for communication as well as Fe. — I actually get the sense the INFJs read feelings as being more in the moment…and yet more long-term. With friends, for example, they are extra-sensitive about the circumstances in someone's life and how that might come to bear upon someone's behaviour. And, at the same time, they're very good at bouncing off how the person acts.

This is simplifying things, and I don't know if actual F-doms would agree…but I always saw Fi as empathetic and Fe as sympathetic. I find that INFPs want other people to feel with them or will try to feel with a friend who is hurt. INFJs will…be able to comfort you more, somehow. They'll say all the comforting things. INFPs won't try to change how you feel so much…? Maybe.

The way you described 'vibes' made me think more Fi. And, it's true that INFJs are less likely to be messy (it's that seventh function Te, I think!).

If you're still not sure, there was a great thread (argument?) between some INFPs and INFJs. Peacebaby brought up a real life situation that seemed to really divide the NFs in that conversation, with the INFPs on one side and the INFJs on the other. Tiltyred did a lot of speaking for the INFJ side. If you can be bothered, maybe see which side you were on? (I know that, even as an INTP, I'm more comfortable with Fi and I sided with the INFPs .)

 

[bluestripes]

I don't suppose you've read much about the functions themselves?

no, i haven't. i am only starting to do so, through from what i've managed to read so far it does seem that i am Fi, rather than Fe.

the other day, i discovered that i have jung's "type and temperament" sitting on my shelf. ironically, it is one of the few books by jung i which haven't read; i found him a considerable help in dealing with mental health issues, and his work is extremely interesting in itself, but i was not drawn toward his theory of psychological types until recently. now i'm glad i had bought the book from a friend several years ago, just in case i might wish to have a look at it later.

then there are the traits that make me have second thoughts about being an intuitive type, because they seem to suggest introverted sensing and not intuition. there are not that many of them, but they're quite prominent in their own right. perhaps i should make a separate post about this.

I'll focus on what you said about vibes. I read once that INFPs could sit in a room and intuitively know which way everyone was 'facing' in terms of moods and feelings. They seem to be really interested in getting to the 'heart' or 'core' of someone's feelings. They don't necessarily know how to communicate that understanding, though, I think. Fi doesn't really set you up for communication as well as Fe.

this is my problem. i can get slightly lost and start wandering around in circles even when describing something simple and mundane; i taught myself to talk more or less coherently only in my mid-twenties, around the time i got a regular second job at a call center. i had no other choice. but when it comes to my internal states, i'm as inarticulate as ever. my own emotions are not necessarily clear to me either; sometimes they make sense, other times, they do not.

this is still another issue that makes me wonder. is it possible to be F-dominant and answer "i don't know" when someone asks how i feel?

This is simplifying things, and I don't know if actual F-doms would agree…but I always saw Fi as empathetic and Fe as sympathetic. I find that INFPs want other people to feel with them or will try to feel with a friend who is hurt. INFJs will…be able to comfort you more, somehow. They'll say all the comforting things. INFPs won't try to change how you feel so much…? Maybe.

i think "empathetic, but not (too) sympathetic" is an accurate description of how i am.

i'm certainly better at just being there for a friend, if they need it - sitting there and listening, silently, or making some small sign, usually not even verbal, to indicate that i understand. feeling with them, feeling as if i were them, to a certain extent. i'm much worse at giving advice. if anything, when it comes to this, i often feel powerless. i may want to change the state of affairs, and strongly at that, but i don't know what i could conceivably do or say. the expression "internal paralysis" summarizes it well enough, i think.

also, that sensation caused by other people's feelings can be like a sharp stab somewhere deep down or a feeling that my world is starting to disintegrate, inside and out. this makes me want to withdraw. a few times this reached the level of a sentiment i could describe as "get thee and thy [insert name of offending emotion] away from me". i glared, went into shutdown mode, had an urge to shut my eyes and cover my eyes with my hands, or to leave and slam the door behind me. i'm not sure that i had the best expression on my face, either. i can only guess how this looked to an outside observer.

most of the times this happened, the other person was in histrionics over an issue that wasn't really there in the first place. i think there was a considerable dose of disgust in that state of general emotional overload.

in the past, i went through a period of wanting to go into the caring professions because i had this vague desire "to help" - as a child, i wanted to be an MD or a nurse, then, in my mid teens, i thought i might become a psychologist. i tried to study psychology at university for one year, which was a disaster in all senses of the word. now i know i would never be able to do this, because, once again, i) i may have enough empathy but i lack sympathy, ii) i feel it is not my calling and iii) i would burn out and/or suffer a complete shutdown very soon, because i don't have the detachment necessary to do such a job.

If you're still not sure, there was a great thread (argument?) between some INFPs and INFJs. Peacebaby brought up a real life situation that seemed to really divide the NFs in that conversation, with the INFPs on one side and the INFJs on the other. Tiltyred did a lot of speaking for the INFJ side. If you can be bothered, maybe see which side you were on? (I know that, even as an INTP, I'm more comfortable with Fi and I sided with the INFPs .)

thanks! this should be really helpful.

 

[Bamboozle]

Just from how you responded to the empathetic/sympathetic thing, I would say you fell into the Fi-camp pretty definitely. To me, that's exactly Fi. (Though this is coming from an INTP, so…!)

this is still another issue that makes me wonder. is it possible to be F-dominant and answer "i don't know" when someone asks how i feel?

I think INFPs strive to understand themselves. INFPs are said to strive toward authenticity. I think that perpetual attempt to clarify one's inner self to oneself is the INFPs eternal quest. Such is the impression I get. I don't know if INFPs ever figure it out once and for all.

Of course, it could be just that you really don't know. NTs famously find it difficult to articulate what they're like inside. I certainly suffer from this. But I think this stems from actual ignorance as opposed to the uncertainty of the NFs. The NFs seem to know that what they're trying to figure out is quite complex. NTs just have no idea. Even those NTs who are a little in touch with their inner self seem to have but a vague idea of how it works and have some idea that it is a thing that acts of its own accord; quite mysterious.

Do you fit into one of these? It can be difficult to tell, I think. INFPs can feel things intensely (and you seem to have described the intensity of your empathy very well). But NTs can feel things intensely, too…often, I think, because they don't regulate themselves so well and so it builds up and explodes all over them.

then there are the traits that make me have second thoughts about being an intuitive type, because they seem to suggest introverted sensing and not intuition.

Well, actually, for the INFP, Si is the tertiary function. If I understand correctly, the four main functions (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) all reinforce one another, especially if they share a realm—introvertedness or extravertedness. So Fi is reinforced by Si. The functions don’t just work separately; they work together, too.

(INTPs are kind of similar in this respect, perhaps. Si is my tertiary, too. I always have trouble deciding between ‘old’ and ‘new’ options…and I actually think of them like that. Sometimes, once I associate two things, I like them together all the time. Some foods, for example. But I think I also try to resist and I go out of my way to choose/do things I usually wouldn’t…because I don’t trust my Si either.

(At the same time, though, Si is crucial for me. The Fi of INFPs and the Ti of INTPs are both judging functions. Si helps both types to remember what they’ve already seen. I know that when I speak of arguments, I have a feeling that all debates follow the same pattern. I literally think, ‘I’ve seen this before. I always see this.’ I think that’s Si.)

If you’re interested, there is this post. To me, it sounds very much like the Fi-Si equivalent of my Ti-Si.

 

[bluestripes]

If you’re interested, there is this post. To me, it sounds very much like the Fi-Si equivalent of my Ti-Si.

once again, thanks a lot.

(going to reply in more detail a little later in the afternoon - too tired to concentrate at the moment)

 

[bluestripes]

I think INFPs strive to understand themselves. INFPs are said to strive toward authenticity. I think that perpetual attempt to clarify one's inner self to oneself is the INFPs eternal quest. Such is the impression I get. I don't know if INFPs ever figure it out once and for all.

that would be me. i’ve always been interested in opportunities to grow, to mature, to become more whole, more in touch with who i am. i know that these words are overused in our society and, for most people, they might not mean that much, but they have always had a strong resonance with me.

when i was fifteen to eighteen years old, this interest reached the intensity of an obsession; i went through a period of metaphysical intoxication where this was the only topic i would discuss or think about most of the time. i had several more specific interests - the use of hallucinogens for what is called “consciousness expansion”, maslow’s concept of a healthy and mature individual, spiritual practices such as shamanic rituals, bhakti-yoga and christian contemplation/prayer and possible ways to combine them into a “personal religion” of sorts, jung’s method of analyzing dreams and psychotic experiences, treating or coping with mental illness through seeing it as an internal journey - all of which shared the same common goal. each of them has stayed with me to this day in a somewhat changed, tame form.

Of course, it could be just that you really don't know. NTs famously find it difficult to articulate what they're like inside. I certainly suffer from this. But I think this stems from actual ignorance as opposed to the uncertainty of the NFs. The NFs seem to know that what they're trying to figure out is quite complex. NTs just have no idea. Even those NTs who are a little in touch with their inner self seem to have but a vague idea of how it works and have some idea that it is a thing that acts of its own accord; quite mysterious.

Do you fit into one of these? It can be difficult to tell, I think.

it is. what makes it particularly dificult is the depression problem i’ve had since i was sixteen – i tend to have long (sub)depressive phases that last months at a time and are not too severe, but make me lose touch with my emotions. at this point, distinguishing between this condition and any permanent changes to my personality that could have occurred over the years has become problematic.

if i try to remember how i was before this started, it would seem that i am closer to the way you defined the INFP type (i.e., feels “something” that is complex and has many diverse shades that elude definition). i would still confuse different emotions and had trouble conveying them to others, but i felt a lot and i lived immersed in those feelings. i don’t think i even cared much that i could not describe them well; they were at the core of my being, and this was the one thing that mattered.

now i am much more indifferent/calm in a way that doesn’t seem natural, and more distant from myself. i have started to use logic more extensively to compensate for the emotional “gaps” i have developed, where i feel nothing (no matter how much i would like to) or my feelings are too indecipherable and strange, even to me. so, in a sense, i guess i feel more similar to the way you or other xNTx types usually do. this could explain why i have started to test as INTP rather than INFP. whether this is merely my adult personality, and thus what i was supposed to become, or a result of the affective disorder is anyone’s guess.

Well, actually, for the INFP, Si is the tertiary function. If I understand correctly, the four main functions (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) all reinforce one another, especially if they share a realm—introvertedness or extravertedness. So Fi is reinforced by Si. The functions don’t just work separately; they work together, too.

this makes perfect sense.

in some respects, i am very rigid. i prefer to eat the same food every day. i have my favorite pub and italian restaurant where i order “the same” each time i and my friends go there for dinner. in my mid to late teens, i also used to combine foods according to their color, scent and i’m not sure what else (for example, i thought that scrambled eggs went with fried chicken, whereas grainy curds went with merengues, but not vice versa). for the same day, i would try to select only foods that shared the same group, and would be upset if my eating schedule was disrupted. most of those rules would probably seem bizarre to anyone other than myself. i still observe some of them, at least when i can afford choosing between foods, but i’m not as particular about this as i was once.

i wear the same clothes for weeks, sometimes months on end. this feels about as natural as it could be. in fact the idea about wearing a new set of clothing every day, or every other day makes me uncomfortable. whatever i choose to wear becomes as a second skin to me; switching to something else too soon feels almost like peeling off a part of myself. a few years ago, i was translating two of someone’s autobiographies, and there was a passage i remembered because of the way it made me react. it was something to the extent of, "back then, all i had to wear throughout those six months were two dresses, and you can imagine how hard this is for a woman!" the fact was, i could not. i mean, i did realize that in our culture, one is expected to change outfits more often to appear attractive, but it still made little internal sense. i did not understand why it would be hard, and i did not know why anyone would want to have more than two sets of clothing. i have had most of mine for several years and was upset when i had to throw them out once they had become completely worn-down.

i like music, but listen to a limited number of bands/artists (no more than eight, if i’m not to take into account the random chillout tunes i keep finding through a file searching engine). i’m not even sure i can really call any of them my “favorites”, because i select several of their songs to obsess over and ignore the rest. usually, if i like a song, i upload it into my mp3 player, put it on replay mode and listen to it every day until the imagery it had given me initially starts to fade (or the music loses its meaning entirely and becomes no more than an irritating din).

now and then, i become obsessed with a particular book, tv show or theory, which i will then analyze and re-analyze repeatedly until i know it inside and out, down to the most minute aspects. with time, these special interests stabilize, their obsessive quality diminishes and they migrate into "ordinary" interest territory.

but then these are a few isolated areas. also, i am not as strict about any of this as some other people i know. i think this is partly a preference for sameness (though not to the point of going into meltdown mode if i can’t go for the old, familiar option) and partly just not caring enough. if i cannot buy any of the food i like, i will eat whatever i am offered. my ex-boyfriend used to tease me, in a good-natured manner, about eating anything including things one would normally think of as inedible. and i can wear whatever is at hand (even if badly mismatched, dusty, and/or having stains or cat hairs on it – the likelihood is, i won’t notice).

it's interesting that you refer to this as having to choose between "old" vs. "new" options - i usually think about it in similar terms, and i am also wary of indulging that desire for sameness too much. a certain degree of familiarity is necessary if i want to feel comfortable and be creative, as it is for everyone, i suppose, but i do have an unhealthy inclination toward passivity. if i allow myself to, i will do nothing but sit around and rigorously cling to the status quo. this has happened in the past. when i was an undergraduate student, i was thrown out of university over to a misunderstanding i did nothing to resolve, and, instead of attempting to return next year (which later proved to be much easier than i had thought), i spent several years working from home as a translator. i did little, apart from household chores and some modern greek, and if i did go out, it was only for a short stroll with one of my former university friends or to a bible study group. i became so rooted in my routines and so fond of that simple lifestyle, which i liked, deep down, that it took a considerable effort to become more active again. i don't want the same to happen in the future.

 

[Bamboozle]

once again, thanks a lot.

No problem .

S things first:

in some respects, i am very rigid. i prefer to eat the same food every day. i have my favorite pub and italian restaurant where i order “the same” each time i and my friends go there for dinner. in my mid to late teens, i also used to combine foods according to their color, scent and i’m not sure what else (for example, i thought that scrambled eggs went with fried chicken, whereas grainy curds went with merengues, but not vice versa). for the same day, i would try to select only foods that shared the same group, and would be upset if my eating schedule was disrupted. most of those rules would probably seem bizarre to anyone other than myself. i still observe some of them, at least when i can afford choosing between foods, but i’m not as particular about this as i was once.

This is very interesting. But also pretty clearly not dominant Si so I feel we can be quite certain on that account—you’re not an Si-dom. My brother is an Si-dom. Si-dom is his primary form of understanding the world. Si extends beyond a fondness for habitual ways of doing things. I think only those types with Si as an lesser function could enjoy Si exactly like that. And, actually, I get the impression that Si-doms tend not even to be aware that they are doing the same things. It is simply the way things are done; things are done because they work and you know they work. They do not think of it as repetition, per se. It is the other types who accuse Si-doms of that.

i’m not even sure i can really call any of them my “favorites”, because i select several of their songs to obsess over and ignore the rest. usually, if i like a song, i upload it into my mp3 player, put it on replay mode and listen to it every day until the imagery it had given me initially starts to fade (or the music loses its meaning entirely and becomes no more than an irritating din).

Haha, I can kind of relate. I don’t do it as intensely as you, I think. But I think I know what you mean.

but then these are a few isolated areas. also, i am not as strict about any of this as some other people i know. i think this is partly a preference for sameness (though not to the point of going into meltdown mode if i can’t go for the old, familiar option) and partly just not caring enough. if i cannot buy any of the food i like, i will eat whatever i am offered. my ex-boyfriend used to tease me, in a good-natured manner, about eating anything including things one would normally think of as inedible. and i can wear whatever is at hand (even if badly mismatched, dusty, and/or having stains or cat hairs on it – the likelihood is, i won’t notice).

If you wondered if Se was strong with you, I don’t think it is! Not as one of the dominant functions anyway. The Se-users really live in the physical world. Their primary form of stimulation and interest (or at least a big part of it) comes from the external world. I don’t know that they could stand this kind of behaviour. They might well drive themselves crazy.


F/T things:

now i am much more indifferent/calm in a way that doesn’t seem natural, and more distant from myself. i have started to use logic more extensively to compensate for the emotional “gaps” i have developed, where i feel nothing (no matter how much i would like to) or my feelings are too indecipherable and strange, even to me. so, in a sense, i guess i feel more similar to the way you or other xNTx types usually do. this could explain why i have started to test as INTP rather than INFP. whether this is merely my adult personality, and thus what i was supposed to become, or a result of the affective disorder is anyone’s guess.

Hmm. I don’t know if this is the same thing but I get the sense that INFPs can go through something like this…a kind of disillusionment and a mistrusting of themselves and their dominant functions. In this state, their T function seems to become a kind of defence mechanism. I’m only speaking from what I see of INFPs talking about themselves. Many of them seem to go through a stage of typing as INTPs for whatever reason. It doesn’t help that the T/F binary seems to imply that Fs have no logic—which is, of course, not the case.



As for the rest of the post, I am only a little acquainted with F as a dominant function. So I hesitate to say much about it. But…I’m going to suggest INFP. That is my strong feeling. The things you describe don’t make you exempt from the other types and only you can decide in the end but—INFP is what I’d pitch for. If you have anything more you want to talk about, go ahead.

Oh, you could also check this out about Fi if you haven’t already.


EDIT: Oh, yes. Here. From the link I provided: "When we use Feeling in an Introverted way, it operates as a kind of inner flame--a sense of personal values that may be difficult to explain or express directly but whose character informs our choices and inclinations." And this:

'Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude of judging things good or bad based on how they harmonize or clash with a living being's inner essence. That inner essence or soul, and how things in the environment get along with it or conflict with it, is knowable only first-hand--ultimately, only by that soul. It is known by attending to one's own emotions in response to things. What you like is good--for you, not necessarily good for others. What you don't like is bad--for you, not necessarily bad for others. Anything outside your own soul is irrelevant to evaluating anything or choosing your course in life.'

This kind of thing is what I meant by getting to know oneself. If your experiments with hallucinogens etc was motivated by this kind of thing, then I would say it was Fi. I can't say, from where I'm standing, whether or not your experiments were motivated by these things. Only you can say, really. I just didn't want to say 'this sounds like Fi' or not because it's not as though different types can't get into those things for different reasons. Furthermore, other types can explore their Fi without necessarily being Fi-doms. So perhaps think about how much those ideas resonate with you.

 

[bluestripes]

If you have anything more you want to talk about, go ahead.

thanks. i think so. there was something i was going to ask about the functions and the T/F question, but again, it might take a while before i can reply - i've been exhausted over these last few days and my mind is not working as it should.

 

[bluestripes]

INFPs can feel things intensely (and you seem to have described the intensity of your empathy very well). But NTs can feel things intensely, too…often, I think, because they don't regulate themselves so well and so it builds up and explodes all over them.

this has happened to me, too, more than once. there was this one day just before i handed in my MA thesis (i think i was finishing the final version). i was sitting at work when something just – struck me. i think i felt the significance of everything i was seeing around me, the “there and then”, the sheer beauty that can be found in each crack in the wall or in the sunlight that was filtering through the window, and thought, one’s entire life consists of moments like those whose intensity gives one chills down the spine – how is one supposed to stand that? but then, that same life is far too short, and it’s difficult to comprehend the contrast between the intensity and the negligible time it lasts. but there had to be something else to it, too. i felt i was being inundated, drowning. i was speaking to a customer at the time and i’m not sure how i managed to finish the call without breaking down. i took a break for several minutes and seemed to go back to baseline somewhat, but then the feeling flared up once more. it continued to come in waves for what might have been the next half hour, or several hours. time seemed to stand still so i have no idea.

i had been reading about sabre-toothed animals at the time, especially smilodon cats. their long teeth fascinated me and i wanted to find out how these could have evolved, and which adaptation mechanisms (such as changes in physique or hunting behavior) had to be adopted at the same time. at one point, i happened to think about smilodon cats and the feeling became even more unbearable. perhaps, in that frame of mind, it seemed too immense a loss that such a unique creature should have become extinct. i don’t know. all i knew was, something was there, it was overwhelming and alien and i could not control it. an eldritch abomination of an emotion.

i did have such moments before. there was one day when i was thirteen or fourteen when i and my grandfather were having a walk in the forest, and i saw some damselflies (the sort that seem black, but, upon inspection, turn out to have an iridecent hue that changes from blue to green) fluttering above a small stream. in the evening, as i went to bed, i thought about them and it suddenly seemed unbearable that they should have a lifespan of several weeks or, at best, months. i could not stand the thought that they would not be there when i came next year. i cried uncontrollably, my mother discovered me and i think it took her a while before she could calm me down. the difference was that back then, the feeling seemed to make more sense to me – at least i could tell what it was that moved me so much.

again, i guess this happens because the depression blots out most of my emotions, but once it starts to lift, they come back with a doubled intensity. there is this stark division between two states - the long "blanks" where the lights are either out or down, dimmed, so that everything looks dull, grayish and indistinct, and the moments inbetween that might well become too bright. similar to being blinded by a torch after being in a basement for a while and getting used to the dark.

If you wondered if Se was strong with you, I don’t think it is! Not as one of the dominant functions anyway. The Se-users really live in the physical world. Their primary form of stimulation and interest (or at least a big part of it) comes from the external world. I don’t know that they could stand this kind of behaviour. They might well drive themselves crazy.

very true. what made me have second thoughts for a moment was, i do enjoy and savor some physical sensations – sauna or steam baths, good food, beer, flowers, perfume scents, much more so than some people i know who deny this to themselves for various reasons (a few of them force themselves feel miserable and are, well, physically masochistic, others do not seem to be fond of the stimulation). but then, when one comes to think about it, it doesn’t mean that much.

i think this is my way of taking in the outside world – in separate flashes, short snippets like these (which then trigger visual imagery or entire (day)dream sequences that can be written about or simply explored, if that makes sense). at other times, i do not shut it out entirely either, but i do tend to be somewhat oblivious to my surroundings, my body and its needs. i can save up on food for a month, for example, or just forget to eat once in a while because i am occupied with something else, and then have a single meal i am going to genuinely enjoy.

But also pretty clearly not dominant Si so I feel we can be quite certain on that account—you’re not an Si-dom.

i thought so too.

one thing i remembered that might appear to be more typical for a predominantly sensing type - and somewhat strange for an intuitive one - is that, as a child, i used to have no sense of humor. i was very literal, which meant i was constantly insulted by things said as a joke. i’m not sure whether it was sheer hypersensitivity (i overreacted to just about anything) or the fact that pragmatics was never a particular strength of mine. probably it was both. i failed to notice irony or sarcasm because the accompanying tone made no sense, but i would often feel the bitterness or, at any rate, the fact that there was something “wrong”, and took it personally.

i still miss irony from time to time. i remember discussing a show i liked with a friend and telling her about a case of (borderline) interspecies romance i found touching. she was sceptical about the possible outcome and asked, at one point, “so she/it what, ate him?” i answered seriously that no, she did not, and proceeded to tell her what took place afterward – that the alien discovered that she cared for the human and had developed a genuine connection with him, etc. then, after some thirthy seconds had passed, i had a delayed reaction of “wait, what was this - irony?” this happens much more rarely than it used to. i have also developed a good sense of humor that my friends acknowledge, and i do understand jokes well, so i guess this might have been a temporary issue.

i had similar difficulties with conventional metaphor and colloquialisms. some of them tended to produce a very inadequate reaction (as in, hysterical laughter). when i was around thirteen-fourteen, i used to keep a small english-to-english colloquial dictionary and open it at random pages for the giggles and the wild imagery the expressions gave me. it took a long time to get used to them. oddly enough, i never had the same difficulties with literary/poetic metaphor – probably because it can be easily recognized for what it is, and hasn’t (yet) been so overused as to lose its original meaning.

i later taught myself colloquial russian and slang, much the same way one would learn a foreign language, and made a concerted effort to use it each time i talked to my friends. at this point i might well have a better command of it than some people who have used it since childhood. but it’s still a “second language”.

This kind of thing is what I meant by getting to know oneself. If your experiments with hallucinogens etc was motivated by this kind of thing, then I would say it was Fi. I can't say, from where I'm standing, whether or not your experiments were motivated by these things. Only you can say, really. I just didn't want to say 'this sounds like Fi' or not because it's not as though different types can't get into those things for different reasons. Furthermore, other types can explore their Fi without necessarily being Fi-doms.

it’s difficult to explain. to a large extent, it was about spirituality, trying to discover a connection to god, but i wanted to explore my own mind too. i’ve been thinking about writing a post re: the various theories i used to embrace or construct at the time, which were the reasoning behind this (i am not sure if the word “theory” is suitable for describing them, because those ideas were something i felt inside myself as much as they were intellectual), and placing it in the NF forum to see whether anyone might relate to that.

i was going to ask: perhaps you know some articles or other resources about one’s shadow (or animus/anima) self and the way it relates to one’s actual type? (there was something else too, but i can’t seem to remember – trying to finish a fourteen0-page translation which i am doing, as usual, at the last moment)

 

[bluestripes]

Hmm. I don’t know if this is the same thing but I get the sense that INFPs can go through something like this…a kind of disillusionment and a mistrusting of themselves and their dominant functions. In this state, their T function seems to become a kind of defence mechanism. I’m only speaking from what I see of INFPs talking about themselves. Many of them seem to go through a stage of typing as INTPs for whatever reason. It doesn’t help that the T/F binary seems to imply that Fs have no logic—which is, of course, not the case.

it’s interesting that you mentioned this. i seem to have done to a similar extreme in my teens, but it was in the opposite direction. for quite a few years i vehemently dismissed logic as something that could be useleful in an everyday setting, but was worthless for discovering what i thought of as the deeper truth, the one that lies beneath the surface of things. i felt it could only be understood instinctively, or with the help of one’s emotions. (it is difficult to define what i meant by “truth”. but to me it was much more than just a vague word which one can supply with whatever meaning one finds suitable; it made sense on some instinctive level).

if someone tended to make decisions on the basis of logic and was cautious about following their feelings, or even controlled them more than others, (s)he would seem to me to be “dry”, cold, callous, an empty shell of an individual. they seemed soul-dead. i don’t think i ever formulated it to myself this explicitly, but back then i thought that logical type = immoral.

i didn’t think god was knowable through reasoning (in any sense), so i believed that traditional orthodox or catholic theology was useless, or even harmful, because it enabled one to wander around in circles and, as i thought, become lost in one’s own constructs without becoming any closer to god. to connect to him, i thought, one had to renounce one’s rational side altogether, perhaps even be prepared to be considered a lunatic.

i even constructed my own little theory as to why we developed such a quality. i believed that, at first, when the first humans were in eden (or whatever was meant metaphorically by that name), they had no solid ego, so there were no boundaries between “self” and “other” or between different “selves”. of course, in that state, one cannot make evaluative judgments or single out cause-effect connections that well. one is just there. then, once the fall occurred, this state of harmony shattered (now that i think about this, it would have had to be womb-/tomb-like) and humans found out that they had developed an ego. they were now single, separate, and could no longer connect to each other or to their surroundings as easily as before. hence our capacity for logical thinking, which was the natural consequence of having an ego, and was also necessary for humanity to survive in its new condition.

(it sounds insane and i suppose it is, but this is how i explained everything to myself at the time. the drive to deny my own logical side had to be that strong)

there were personal reasons – my parents had tried to fashion a child prodigy out of me, though i was far from being one, and i was revolted by anything that reminded me of that. i went to great lengths to convince myself and others that i was not a thinking creature; i agreed with the assessment that i was rather stupid (well, i am, but not in the way i thought then), and, as my thinking is visual, i assumed that i had next to no ability for abstract reasoning. (this was blatantly untrue – i was spending whole days theorizing about this or that and spoke in statements which were so general they irritated or baffled others).

and, of course, there was a lot of the generalized adolescent resentment/anger at “the system”, which i didn’t want to accept altogether. i believed that the various institutions that exist in society only serve to limit our freedom and to brainwash us into a certain limited view of the world. had it been 1967-69, i would have joined a commune and made one of its most model members.

now, i don’t think i have gone the other way and started to deny my feelings instead (i value them a great deal, only they do not seem to be there most of the time). but i think my mind may have gone into a shutdown state of sorts, which migh have been the way it protected itself against being perpetually offended and/or upset. this became obvious as soon as i developed the first “down” phase - i suddenly realized that a barrier had appeared in several areas where i used to be very sensitive, and i felt different, harder, more unresponsive. after that, it felt as if some valves were being shut down inside me, one after another.

Oh, you could also check this out about Fi if you haven’t already.

thanks. i discovered the site when i had just become interested in mbti/jung typology, but didn’t read any of the descriptions (including this one) until you also mentioned it.

i had an odd response to the summary on that page. it felt almost as if i were reading – well, about myself, which gave me something akin to a shudder (not in the negative sense). i never quite realized how fundamental this has been to me until now. i have always felt that a person is unique and should be valued for just that, for being who they are, but i never really gave much thought to that. it seemed just that obvious. (perhaps this is similar to what you said about sensory types, who do not realize they are following a routine precisely because this is so natural to them).

after this, i suppose INFP might well be the only type that does fit me.

 

[Bamboozle]

Sorry for the slow reply! I’ve been pretty busy, too, lately.

this has happened to me, too, more than once.

Actually, I think I know what you mean. I used to have moments like that when I was younger. I don’t think I was ever an Fi-dom—I still have a rocky relationship with Fi—but I think I had moments like the ones you’re talking about, too. Perhaps not so powerful but similar.

I’m sorry to hear about your depression and how much it dampens your sense of the world. All I can say from here, I suppose, is take care of yourself!

But, generally, I think what ends up exploding all over the NTs are negative feelings; anxieties and fears that they haven’t noticed have been building up over a long-period.

very true. what made me have second thoughts for a moment was, i do enjoy and savor some physical sensations

Oh, yes. Having a lesser connection with Se does not preclude anyone from enjoying the physical world. I certainly enjoy it! But I also know what you mean about taking in short snippets. It’s just that Se-doms don’t just enjoy it but think in the physical world, too. It’s a lot more difficult to be oblivious to it because it is their main realm of existence, thinking, etc.

one thing i remembered that might appear to be more typical for a predominantly sensing type - and somewhat strange for an intuitive one - is that, as a child, i used to have no sense of humor. i was very literal

I don’t think this precludes you from being an N. And, anyway, if you’re an INFP, Ne would be your style of N. I think Ni is superior to Ne in thinking up new meanings. Ne cobbles different things together and it’s good at extrapolating ideas from others but it’s really Ni that sees multiple meanings at the same time (which is what irony, sarcasm, metaphors, etc work with).

when i was around thirteen-fourteen, i used to keep a small english-to-english colloquial dictionary and open it at random pages for the giggles and the wild imagery the expressions gave me. it took a long time to get used to them. oddly enough, i never had the same difficulties with literary/poetic metaphor – probably because it can be easily recognized for what it is, and hasn’t (yet) been so overused as to lose its original meaning.

i later taught myself colloquial russian and slang, much the same way one would learn a foreign language, and made a concerted effort to use it each time i talked to my friends. at this point i might well have a better command of it than some people who have used it since childhood. but it’s still a “second language”.

Haha, that’s very interesting!

it’s difficult to explain. to a large extent, it was about spirituality, trying to discover a connection to god, but i wanted to explore my own mind too. i’ve been thinking about writing a post re: the various theories i used to embrace or construct at the time, which were the reasoning behind this (i am not sure if the word “theory” is suitable for describing them, because those ideas were something i felt inside myself as much as they were intellectual), and placing it in the NF forum to see whether anyone might relate to that.

The bolded part strikes me as particularly INFP-y. I think Fi-Ne does construct theories but they are theories that one knows the truth of intuitively. And they might relate, actually. I think it might be the sort of thing some INFPs can be very interested in talking about.

i was going to ask: perhaps you know some articles or other resources about one’s shadow (or animus/anima) self and the way it relates to one’s actual type? (there was something else too, but i can’t seem to remember – trying to finish a fourteen0-page translation which i am doing, as usual, at the last moment)

I really liked this page when I was thinking about the shadows: http://www.erictb.info/archetypes.html. He also has an account here on the forums (as ‘Eric B’). Bit of a read but worth it, I think, when you have the time!

And you might have finished the translation by now, or you might not have, but good luck either way!

 

[Bamboozle]

it’s interesting that you mentioned this. i seem to have done to a similar extreme in my teens, but it was in the opposite direction […]
(it sounds insane and i suppose it is, but this is how i explained everything to myself at the time. the drive to deny my own logical side had to be that strong)

That was interesting and not that insane at all . I think it just exhibits that Fi quality that I talked about in the previous post—that search to explain the world in a way that is true and logical, intuitively.

there were personal reasons – my parents had tried to fashion a child prodigy out of me, though i was far from being one, and i was revolted by anything that reminded me of that. […] this became obvious as soon as i developed the first “down” phase - i suddenly realized that a barrier had appeared in several areas where i used to be very sensitive, and i felt different, harder, more unresponsive. after that, it felt as if some valves were being shut down inside me, one after another.

You sound like you’ve had it quite hard in life. I’m sorry to hear it…!

i had an odd response to the summary on that page. it felt almost as if i were reading – well, about myself, which gave me something akin to a shudder (not in the negative sense). i never quite realized how fundamental this has been to me until now. i have always felt that a person is unique and should be valued for just that, for being who they are, but i never really gave much thought to that. it seemed just that obvious. (perhaps this is similar to what you said about sensory types, who do not realize they are following a routine precisely because this is so natural to them).

I quite like that about thinking about the functions—the way it reminds you that what you take for granted is not necessarily what everyone else takes for granted. It’s both interesting and a helpful thing to remember, I find.

after this, i suppose INFP might well be the only type that does fit me.

Neat! I hope you find it a helpful bit of information about yourself.


ETA: Oh, and I just realised I never remarked upon your signature. Douglas Adams! I love his stuff. Ne right there, I think. A truckload of it.

 

[bluestripes]

Sorry for the slow reply! I’ve been pretty busy, too, lately.

it's absolutely fine.

I’m sorry to hear about your depression and how much it dampens your sense of the world. All I can say from here, I suppose, is take care of yourself!

thanks a lot. i have it much better than many of those who share the same issue. i can function more or less tolerably, in that i can get out of bed in the morning, handle various everyday matters, in whatever half-hearted way that is usual for me, continue to work. (at least until i can still concentrate - there certainly are moments when i stare at the open MsWord page and my mind feels just as blank, so i may spend an hour or two on a single sentence). i guess it is the “more or less” that is the most frustrating, the fact that one is “functioning” but not quite “living”. it feels as if there is half a short step left till i become whole, but it is more difficult to make than that whole long way from severely depressed to where i am at the moment.

as odd as it sounds, though, i think this has taught me to appreciate my surroundings more. there are times when i find myself focussing on something really simple, such as the gleam on the utensils while i am washing them or the particular way the air smells when it is winter and the snow starts thawing, and thinking how much value there is in this, and in the “ordinary” emotions that come with it, the ones that are likely to be taken for granted, i guess. just being able experience it in the full sense of those words.

even waking up early in the morning and having this great sinking/tickling/titillating feeling, like butterflies fluttering inside or sunlight dancing when one directs it with a small mirror (excitement?) – this in itself can be worth a lot. i don’t think i ever understood it as well as i do now.

I don’t think this precludes you from being an N. And, anyway, if you’re an INFP, Ne would be your style of N. I think Ni is superior to Ne in thinking up new meanings. Ne cobbles different things together and it’s good at extrapolating ideas from others but it’s really Ni that sees multiple meanings at the same time (which is what irony, sarcasm, metaphors, etc work with).

this makes it much more understandable. usually it is sensing types who are stereotyped as being literal-minded, blunt and incapable of grasping hidden meanings; many of them may well be, but one could be this to a differing degree, i guess, and these sensing types are simply on the extreme end of the continuum.

and judging by the descriptions of Ni and Ne, it would definitely seem that i use Ne.

I really liked this page when I was thinking about the shadows: http://www.erictb.info/archetypes.html. He also has an account here on the forums (as ‘Eric B’). Bit of a read but worth it, I think, when you have the time!

thanks so much! what i found especially interesting is the notion that one might exhibit shadow traits when faced with a crisis situation and/or under extreme stress. as far as i can tell from my observations of myself and others, as well as my experiments with character development (what behavior or feelings instinctively seem “natural” for a specific individual in specific circumstances), there seems to be a certain truth to that. it’s interesting to see how this could be explained in theoretical terms.

And you might have finished the translation by now, or you might not have, but good luck either way!

thanks! i finished it the day before yesterday (edited the final section whose format was unsatisfactory and sent it once more to the client).

(for now, two more assignments to do – a longer and more convoluted translation on economics that is, thankfully, not that urgent, and some homework on economics for a colleague’s friend)

You sound like you’ve had it quite hard in life. I’m sorry to hear it…!

it was not nearly as bad as it sounds. realistically, the most difficult part were being isolated (which is not exclusive to children whose parents have special aspirations - some go to regular school and their parents have no specific plans for them, but still try to choose their friends, severely restrict their extracurricular activities etc.) and overreacting and being unable to “turn down” or “switch off” my responses no matter how much i wanted to. that, and having migraines for several months when i was fourteen (“circlet” or “helmet” type, occasionally so intense that i seemed to go into some dimmed state of consciousness) and hitting a brick wall when i attempted to ask my parents for help. it was around then that i realized they were not perfect and i had to think for myself or i might well develop some serious problems.

to a large extent, it was myself who was at fault. usually, when people find themselves in this situation, they move out as soon as they turn sixteen or eighteen and can legally make their own decisions. i did not. one reason was the acquired powerlessness, which made me feel that anything i might do would not work out; as if anyone would have brought me back by force, which was nonsense and i knew this, rationally, but it didn’t help. another reason, and the most important one, was that i chose to remain passive and wait for the problem to magically resolve itself, despite being aware that this would never happen. and i tried to avoid conflict to the extent where i found it much easier to take action one would consider rather risky (such as travelling to a foreign country to visit a person i barely knew) than to face another conversation with my parents, which would consist of illogical accusations i would be unable to argue with, because i would immediately break down, and would end in my feeling crushed, yet again. so if someone contributed to the situation becoming as unpleasant as possible, it was myself.

but then, if i were given the chance to turn time backwards and live through my childhood and teen years once more, i think would have done everything exactly the same way, including some of the worst blunders i have made. if i had chosen to behave differently, i wouldn’t have become who i am now. and whatever faults i might have, i am not fond of the idea.

ETA: Oh, and I just realised I never remarked upon your signature. Douglas Adams! I love his stuff. Ne right there, I think. A truckload of it.

this might well be why he appeals to me.

 

[Bamboozle]

i have it much better than many of those who share the same issue. i can function more or less tolerably, in that i can get out of bed in the morning, handle various everyday matters, in whatever half-hearted way that is usual for me, continue to work. (at least until i can still concentrate - there certainly are moments when i stare at the open MsWord page and my mind feels just as blank, so i may spend an hour or two on a single sentence). i guess it is the “more or less” that is the most frustrating, the fact that one is “functioning” but not quite “living”. it feels as if there is half a short step left till i become whole,

I don't suppose you've tried talking to someone about it? I know it doesn't work for everyone, of course, but I've heard good things, too. I guess it just depends!

but it is more difficult to make than that whole long way from severely depressed to where i am at the moment.

as odd as it sounds, though, i think this has taught me to appreciate my surroundings more. […] this in itself can be worth a lot. i don’t think i ever understood it as well as i do now.

Well, that's definitely something .

this makes it much more understandable. usually it is sensing types who are stereotyped as being literal-minded, blunt and incapable of grasping hidden meanings; many of them may well be, but one could be this to a differing degree, i guess, and these sensing types are simply on the extreme end of the continuum.

and judging by the descriptions of Ni and Ne, it would definitely seem that i use Ne.

Yeah, the stereotypes can be very unhelpful! They can be nice, general starting points but they can prove to be a bit of a hindrance to understanding, too.

thanks so much! what i found especially interesting is the notion that one might exhibit shadow traits when faced with a crisis situation and/or under extreme stress. as far as i can tell from my observations of myself and others, as well as my experiments with character development (what behavior or feelings instinctively seem “natural” for a specific individual in specific circumstances), there seems to be a certain truth to that. it’s interesting to see how this could be explained in theoretical terms.

I think it helps a lot in understanding people and the different types to know about the shadows. It really fleshes out the theory. Furthermore, it creates even more space for variations between people even if they are of the same type. That's pretty important, I think!

(for now, two more assignments to do – a longer and more convoluted translation on economics that is, thankfully, not that urgent, and some homework on economics for a colleague’s friend)

Haha, busy, busy!

hitting a brick wall when i attempted to ask my parents for help. it was around then that i realized they were not perfect and i had to think for myself

Ouch about all of it but about this bit particularly…! It's always deeply disappointing when people you thought would be there for you just aren't up to it in the way you'd hoped.

so if someone contributed to the situation becoming as unpleasant as possible, it was myself.

I hear you but don't be too hard on yourself anyway! I think it's far too easy to get trapped in a bad situation—for the reasons you stated…that sense of powerlessness and self-doubt that can build up over time. I don't know that other people would have necessarily moved out as quickly as you think they would have. And it's not always easy to compare situations, either!

if i had chosen to behave differently, i wouldn’t have become who i am now. and whatever faults i might have, i am not fond of the idea.

I wouldn't be fond of the idea either. And as you said about your depression, I think it makes you appreciate different things around you.

this might well be why he appeals to me.

 

[bluestripes]

I don't suppose you've tried talking to someone about it? I know it doesn't work for everyone, of course, but I've heard good things, too. I guess it just depends!

i have, and i agree, it helps – for all i know, it could make the difference between “being isolated and desperate and seeing no sense in continuing” and “finding it difficult, but meaningful and being intent on dealing with it”. i have several close friends on whom i can depend, though i’m especially grateful to one of them (we met when we were both studying psychology, she went on to become a practicing psychotherapist while i transferred to the philology program). she has a gift with this, i think. she listens and somehow makes it clear, without saying much, that she will understand whatever i may tell her (or will try to) and is not going to judge me for it. there is a feeling of silent community, almost like a melting of boundaries between us (i don’t know how to describe it otherwise) which has always made me feel better afterwards.

(it might be that, being good at this, i appreciate the same quality in other people, particularly when it is even stronger in them)

I hear you but don't be too hard on yourself anyway! I think it's far too easy to get trapped in a bad situation—for the reasons you stated…that sense of powerlessness and self-doubt that can build up over time. I don't know that other people would have necessarily moved out as quickly as you think they would have. And it's not always easy to compare situations, either!

this is true, too. i guess it goes to show how unique we are – we can respond to the same situation in vastly different ways, and you are right, it isn’t always sensible to compare. (though it is tempting because one often feels like thinking – there, somebody would have done better if they were me, and forgetting that this is the whole point, that one is not that “somebody” to start with).