Ne and Ni

[Anew Leaf]

What I have learned:

Ne is a super nova.
Ni is a black hole.

 

[Rail Tracer]

What I have learned:

Ne is a super nova.
Ni is a black hole.

Something... Something. Something to that effect was what I got in mind.

From what I remember learning about Ni and Ne, both can be never-ending in some strange direction. If you were to give a Ni and Ne user any type of word, and tell both users to give a use for it, Ni will bring everything into that one word. Ne, on the other hand, would bring that one word into everything. So Ni, in a sense, contracts. While, on the other hand, Ne expands. But I like Saturned's definition .

Ni is the all for one, while Ne is the one for all. Ni tries to converge ideas, while Ne tries to diverge an idea.

The most concrete example I can think of is "diseases." For example diabetes, obesity, and heart attacks.

How it is grouped into diabetes, obesity, and heart attack could possibly be considered a Ne approach.

But once you begin saying that those who have obesity are more likely to have diabetes and heart attacks, that is when you are converging the three ideas (which can be seen as a Ni approach.)

In both cases, they both work. Not all people who have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack. People who don't even have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack etc etc... [fill in the never ending comparison.]

 

[redcheerio]

Something... Something. Something to that effect was what I got in mind.

From what I remember learning about Ni and Ne, both can be never-ending in some strange direction. If you were to give a Ni and Ne user any type of word, and tell both users to give a use for it, Ni will bring everything into that one word. Ne, on the other hand, would bring that one word into everything. So Ni, in a sense, contracts. While, on the other hand, Ne expands. But I like Saturned's definition .

Ni is the all for one, while Ne is the one for all. Ni tries to converge ideas, while Ne tries to diverge an idea.

The most concrete example I can think of is "diseases." For example diabetes, obesity, and heart attacks.

How it is grouped into diabetes, obesity, and heart attack could possibly be considered a Ne approach.

But once you begin saying that those who have obesity are more likely to have diabetes and heart attacks, that is when you are converging the three ideas (which can be seen as a Ni approach.)

In both cases, they both work. Not all people who have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack. People who don't even have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack etc etc... [fill in the never ending comparison.]

Yeah, I agree that's a great way to describe it! It also shows the connection between Ni and Js, and Ne and Ps.

INTPness made a diagram to illustrate this earlier in this thread, cool, hey?

Maybe something like this?

 

[Paisley]

For the TV addicts:

NE - Michael Weston
NI - Paul Weston

.........see what I did there.......come on, you guys don't watch enough TV, even though I'm still 100% accurate.
http://collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Burn_Notice/jeffrey_donovan_michael_weston_123.jpghttp://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/paul-weston-photo_432x324.jpg

 

[Mal12345]

I know the question of what distinguishes Ne from Ni comes up a lot and everyone has different perspectives, so if nothing else just post your own idea of what it is, and we can see about discussing and at least make sure everyone's perspectives are out there so we can pick what seems 'right' to us.

There are probably some older threads on the topic, but I looked through some pages and only saw more specialized discussions.

----

The reason I'm wondering about this is because I've pretty much 'locked in' that I use Fe with people IRL and Ti for analysis/debates/work/etc, regardless of what meaning I'm going by. And N has always been unquestionably tops. So that leaves either Ni-Fe-Ti-Se (INFJ) or Ne-Ti-Fe-Se (ENTP).

Based on my apparent overuse of Ti, many people want to pin me as ENTP. But on the other hand, a lot of comparisons consist of "Ni-Te" vs "Ne-Ti" interactions - in debates and humour and so on, so it's hard to discern where Ti ends and some sort of N begins. I'd rather leave it up to a more general examination of Ni vs. Ne, because I feel like that's really the crux of the difference. In my case, I'm interested in the interactions of Ni-Fe, Ni-Ti, Ne-Ti, and Ne-Fe, but the inverse is probably relevant to some other people so by all means, go all-out.

For this reason, please don't just post "You seem [type/function] to me" unless it will help contextualize your explanation.

I think the problem is simply that you want to be "pinned" as one type. It should be recognized that the ANSIR typology system uses a 3-tier typing system. You could be the same type in all three, or a different type in each. I strongly suspect you would score differently in at least two of them.

Consider this: "The reason I'm wondering about this is because I've pretty much 'locked in' that I use Fe with people IRL and Ti for analysis/debates/work/etc." You have implied all three ANSIR categories in one sentence: thinking, working, and emoting. You use Fe with people - Emoting; and you use Ti for analysis/debates/work - Thinking and Working.

So just stop trying to lock yourself in. You are INFJ with people, and (let's say) ENTP with debate, work, and analysis. That's about the same idea as scoring Synthesist-Realist - polar opposites - on the Harrison/Bramson InQ test, it's just not a problem until the MBTI demands that 6,000,000,000 people have to be exactly one type and only one type out of sixteen.

 

[Resonance]

I think the problem is simply that you want to be "pinned" as one type. It should be recognized that the ANSIR typology system uses a 3-tier typing system. You could be the same type in all three, or a different type in each. I strongly suspect you would score differently in at least two of them.

Consider this: "The reason I'm wondering about this is because I've pretty much 'locked in' that I use Fe with people IRL and Ti for analysis/debates/work/etc." You have implied all three ANSIR categories in one sentence: thinking, working, and emoting. You use Fe with people - Emoting; and you use Ti for analysis/debates/work - Thinking and Working.

So just stop trying to lock yourself in. You are INFJ with people, and (let's say) ENTP with debate, work, and analysis. That's about the same idea as scoring Synthesist-Realist - polar opposites - on the Harrison/Bramson InQ test, it's just not a problem until the MBTI demands that 6,000,000,000 people have to be exactly one type and only one type out of sixteen.

That's cool, I'll check this other typology out. Thanks!

Still, that's a totally new and unrelated context, so I don't expect it to have much effect on the discussion >.< But yah it sounds like it'll give me a more concise way of expressing it I guess~

 

[Rail Tracer]

INTPness made a diagram to illustrate this earlier in this thread, cool, hey?

Yep, apparently everyone thought what I thought.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Something... Something. Something to that effect was what I got in mind.

From what I remember learning about Ni and Ne, both can be never-ending in some strange direction. If you were to give a Ni and Ne user any type of word, and tell both users to give a use for it, Ni will bring everything into that one word. Ne, on the other hand, would bring that one word into everything. So Ni, in a sense, contracts. While, on the other hand, Ne expands. But I like Saturned's definition .

Ni is the all for one, while Ne is the one for all. Ni tries to converge ideas, while Ne tries to diverge an idea.

The most concrete example I can think of is "diseases." For example diabetes, obesity, and heart attacks.

How it is grouped into diabetes, obesity, and heart attack could possibly be considered a Ne approach.

But once you begin saying that those who have obesity are more likely to have diabetes and heart attacks, that is when you are converging the three ideas (which can be seen as a Ni approach.)

In both cases, they both work. Not all people who have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack. People who don't even have obesity gets diabetes or a heart attack etc etc... [fill in the never ending comparison.]

Haha, I kind of came up with that on the fly.... I did some research last night into super novas, black holes, neutron stars, event horizons, singularities... So interesting... that I got lost in the main reason why I was looking those topics up.

I really like how Ne and Ni work together. I have two INFJs that work for me. On the days we are all three together, we do a lot of talking about various topics. One of the INFJs is a mother of 5 and one of her sons is having problems. We talked an entire day about this issue. I tossed out about 20 scenarios I could see as to why he was acting this way. (His dad lives in Australia and ignores him, his older brother moved off to NY for college last fall, he's a middle child and with all of the action going on he has gotten lost in the shuffle, he's feeling lost at school, etc etc) The two INFJs sifted through what I said and explored whether what I was saying was a good match or not. We get a lot done in these chats usually.

 

[the state i am in]

I really like how Ne and Ni work together. I have two INFJs that work for me. On the days we are all three together, we do a lot of talking about various topics. One of the INFJs is a mother of 5 and one of her sons is having problems. We talked an entire day about this issue. I tossed out about 20 scenarios I could see as to why he was acting this way. (His dad lives in Australia and ignores him, his older brother moved off to NY for college last fall, he's a middle child and with all of the action going on he has gotten lost in the shuffle, he's feeling lost at school, etc etc) The two INFJs sifted through what I said and explored whether what I was saying was a good match or not. We get a lot done in these chats usually.

this is how i feel. most of my friends are nps, and the opportunity to consistently engage and explore so many possibilities, to refine them, to generate new questions, to build understanding is, i think, mutually rewarding. especially when discussions unfold that allow each person to independently advance their own ideas while testing them within something that is collectively unfolding. maybe even more so, i just know it brings out my best, and i know i am getting better at bringing out the best in others in these situations and kind of parsing out the problems to be solved in ways that fit with what we all do best and all like to do.

with other sx types, it's usually more independent writing and just taking turns to see what you can do with the context that has been built up while being somewhat cognizant that it might not be relevant to the other person and as a result at least trying to create good energy so that interest remains high.

 

[onemoretime]

Games that help describe both functions:

Ne - TriBond - take three seemingly-different concepts, determine the common essential characteristic of the three

Ni - Scribblish - take a non-sensical picture, and determine how it developed through multiple iterations of interpretation

 

[Resonance]

Games that help describe both functions:

Ne - TriBond - take three seemingly-different concepts, determine the common essential characteristic of the three

Ni - Scribblish - take a non-sensical picture, and determine how it developed through multiple iterations of interpretation

This seems to be basically the opposite of how others describe them?

 

[Ginkgo]

I get the sense that Ne oriented people tend to spread ideas in hopes of revolutionizing what's already known. I mean, on the surface, it looks like they're just building on concepts and flying on the hinges of every tangent that's even remotely related to prior contexts. However, the motivation, at least in my mind, is to bring about death and destruction.

 

[Resonance]

I get the sense that Ne oriented people tend to spread ideas in hopes of revolutionizing what's already known. I mean, on the surface, it looks like they're just building on concepts and flying on the hinges of every tangent that's even remotely related to prior contexts. However, the motivation, at least in my mind, is to bring about death and destruction.

what

this is how i feel. most of my friends are nps,

most of my friends are nips too

 

[Ginkgo]

what

most of my friends are nips too

Not really.

But maybe secretly.

 

[FunnyDigestion]

However, the motivation, at least in my mind, is to bring about death and destruction.

That's a very strange thing to say. A lot of creativity is partly vengeful, intrigued with vilifying things as they are... but I know I'm personally too much of a pussy to really want to kill anything.

But then, that that even makes sense-- that shying from wanting to bring death could be at all like cowardice, is only further infuriating to me... so maybe you have something there. But now I sound like a crazy person.

 

[onemoretime]

This seems to be basically the opposite of how others describe them?

That's because most of the time, people don't pay attention to direction. The first is Ne, because it's concerned with the essential connection "out there." You're not looking for what's the true meaning of those three words within, but what's the connection that already exists out there. The second is Ni, because it involves the hidden truth that's been obscured by four levels of interpretation, and shifting one's perspective of the final image to work toward the thematic core that unites the original phrase with the ultimate drawing.

 

[Rail Tracer]

This seems to be basically the opposite of how others describe them?

Not quite, how it is being describe sounds confusing. Somehow, it sounds like the opposite approach to describing Ni and Ne... which also works

Scribblish:
Non-sensical picture: Ne, some "random" picture
How it developed through multiple iterations of interpretation: Ni, the missing links from point A, B, C , D. it goes something like A<B<C<D<"random" picture
Ne>Ni

This one was a bit easier to understand why onemoretime said it was Ni, to me I thought of it as a line of thought, it heads from 1 spot to another 1 spot. How I see it is that it isn't branching out like a tree, thus the Ni. Someone can suppose that it is Ne because the random picture could be seen as 1 idea while the iterations could be seen as 4(thus branching out.)

Real life example? Let's go back in history. You can call that "chain of events." Events meaning many, chain being connected.

Tribond: (This one is a little harder for me to describe)
Seemingly different concepts: Ni, since we're being vaguely told there is a link. We are to come up with ideas as to what the link is.
Common essential characteristic: Ne, finding the one thing that tied them together to form the Ni bond.
Ni>Ne

Real life example? Liquid, Gas, Solid. (bad example... I know...)
How one person may see it is that these three have a word to describe them but now they are trying to find what that word is (Ne)

But how another person interprets this scenario could be Ni (which I did beforehand until I decided why onemoretime says it is Ne.) The way I thought was, these are three items. I need to find how these three items are connected (Ni.)

It is how you approach the concept that decides whether it is Ni or Ne.

edited

Am I running on a tangent or am I not? You decide

 

[Anew Leaf]

Ne = Supernova.

• Both create elements heavier than oxygen.
• Both expand outward in a significant lightyearesque fashion from the starting point.
• Both are luminous.

Ni = Black Hole

• Both are in tune to the gravity of a situation.
• Both gather in information.
• Both arrive to a single, magical point.

I haz won ze thread!!

 

[JAVO]

Ne = Supernova.

• Both create elements heavier than oxygen.
• Both expand outward in a significant lightyearesque fashion from the starting point.
• Both are luminous.

Ni = Black Hole

• Both are in tune to the gravity of a situation.
• Both gather in information.
• Both arrive to a single, magical point.

I haz won ze thread!!

Good job!

Beware though: Should the supernova result in black hole formation, it will implode this analogy and change your type!

 

[Anew Leaf]

Good job!

Beware though: Should the supernova result in black hole formation, it will implode this analogy and change your type!

My kind of Ne starts with stars that are capped at 8x the mass of our Sun.