[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] 3/4/3

[skylights]

dearest enneagram forum perusers,

thank you for all your attentiveness in regards to my type. petra in particular.

so, i have recently settled into the idea of being some variety of 3/4 heart type.

however, i keep running into the same issues when trying to decide which is my primary type, and which is my wing:

Features:

The Heart Center: Moves towards others - Out of touch with the center ✔
Original Loss: "I was nothing - a failure." i assume the bad feeling of not living up to my parents' or mentors' expectations.
Conflictual Emotion: Sadness ✔
Decision: Being successful and achieving allows you to survive and be loved. ✔
False Claim: "I do not fail. I always get the job done."
Four Adjectives: Self-assured and ambitious, but narcissistic and hostile.

Self-image: "I am successful." ✔
Compulsion: To be a success. Always achieving.
Avoidance: Any hint of failure. ✔
Sin: Deceit ✔
Gift: Producing, bringing to reality in an expedient manner. ✔
Two Wing: Warmer, more encouraging, sociable, and popular, and seductive
Four Wing: More introspective, sensitive, artistic, imaginative, and pretentious ✔
Stress Point: 9 - Overwhelmed, spacing out, vegging out, blown fuses. ✔
Security Point: 6 - Builders of work teams and organizations, loyal idealists, cautious, responsible. ✔

Crossing the River: Wear their best and do attractive strokes. ✔
Affirmation: "My feelings are as valuable as my accomplishments."


Descriptive Adjectives for Average Functioning Threes:
Adaptable ✔
Career-Focused
Pragmatic
Opportunistic ✔
Achiever ✔
Ambitious
Image Conscious ✔
Seeks Success ✔
Competitive ✔

The Heart Center: Moves towards others - Underdeveloped feeling. under?
Original Loss: "I was too plain and common."
Problem Emotion: Sadness ✔
Decision: Being unique and special allows you to survive and be loved. ✔
False Claim: "I am not ordinary. I am one of a kind." (well that's true? i'm not hung up on it though. everyone's one of a kind)
Four Adjectives: Intuitive and creative, but self-absorbed and depressive ✔

Self-image: "I am different. I’m not like you."
Compulsion: To be unique and have a special style. ✔
Avoidance: Ordinariness, everyday commonness.
Sin: Envy ✔
Gift: To bring out the unique, special qualities of a situation or a person. ✔
Three Wing: More extroverted, upbeat, ambitious, flamboyant, and image-conscious. ✔
Five Wing: More Introverted, intellectual, idiosyncratic, reserved, and depressed.
Stress Point: 2 - Excessive helping, compulsive intrusion, hysterical, and desperate.
Security Point: 1 - Steady, principled action, distinguishes between feelings and values. (i guess?)

Crossing the River: Uses fancy styles and even does a water ballet. ✔
Affirmation: "I will value each day no matter how ordinary." ✔

Adjectives for Average Functioning Fours:
Self-Absorbed ✔
Feels Different
Enigmatic ✔
Dreamer ✔
Special ✔
Moody ✔
Emotional ✔
Romantic

do you see what i mean? i have the internal hangups of a 3, but my responses to those hangups are 4ish in nature. i avoid failure and pursue identity. when i'm in trouble i tend to avoid, and lie if backed into a corner. and if still pressed, i break down and open up (though usually still with a "spin"... rarely, if ever, do i open up completely)

i have to sort through emotions before i can work. i am very forthright about my emotions, just not always the reasons why i feel that way. i do not have a "damaged" nor "in need of a rescuer" complex.

if i were to cross the river, i would probably try to do so in an aesthetic but enjoyable way, flipping and dolphin-twisting and diving. i love communing with water and feel beautiful in it. i relate with it, it feels like a part of me. and it's fun.

i feel like i embody 4/3 more readily, but i look at the 4 core motivations and i don't think i am a 4. unless my sense of "loss of individuality" was the result of always feeling "special" and being treated differently, and therefore believing i always needed to be special and different to be important. that could work.

whichever type i really am, my wing is really strong.

 

[Chloe]

Ha ha you know what i think!

 

[skylights]

hehe i know!! i must drive you totally crazy.

things i am confused on:

1. emotional removal

i guess i'm still ambivalent because i've read in several places now about how the core of 3 is being removed from their emotional self, which i am not... not at all... if anything i have just begun to learn how to quiet the emotional storm to get work done. usually the storms are fast enough, though, that they've never really been a problem. an evening of freaking out every few months, or half an hour of crying once or twice a month, doesn't really do much to mess with life.

2. polish

i also think most people who know me really well would laugh if i told them i was a 3. i'm just not polished enough. i mean, yes, i am somewhat polished... my nails are always polished but some days i just have to roll out of bed and run to class in pj pants (i actually kind of love doing that, lol). i'm never 100% polished like my 3w2 FJ friend. something about me is always a bit quirky... which i do often like, because it's more me that way (sometimes her sense of style seems kind of impersonal) but she always looks more together... my room's been a total mess for the last week and a half. i joke that it reflects my emotional state... when i'm feeling good, it's clean, and when i'm stressed or bummed, it's a mess... (this is 110% true). i am just aesthetic, more than polished. my sense of style is generally elegant/boho/feminine. flowy and a little natural, but still stylish. often it's a bit beachy. and then sometimes i like to do black with neons

3. authenticity

when i go to choose something, i do think a lot about what others would approve of, but it also has to reflect my personality. i just don't choose things that don't resonate with who i am inside. will i choose what's new and shiny and looks good? sure, because (a) i like it, it's pretty (b) others will be happy with it, and i am happy when they are happy, and (c) because something about it fits my personality. i get stuck when i feel like i have to choose between what will make a parent happy and what will make me happy, though. i get really stuck when i have to choose between 2 things and one parent likes one more and one likes the other. that KILLS me. if i am a 3, it's an "attached" sort of 3. i can't do that individualistic shiny veneer thing my 3w2 friend does sometimes. i don't know if that's a good thing or not.

and finally i really hate having to self-promote. ugh. i mean sure i think i'm hot shit and all but i'd rather others figure that out for themselves you lose authenticity when you have to tell people... if you're that great, they should realize...

3. vs. a 3w2 and vs. a 4

my 3w2 friend doesn't really self-promote either, actually, but what i notice she does do is publicize things in a way that sounds really good, that sometimes belies the truth of it. i do this a bit too... but i guess i just see 3 in her so much. she creates this idealized image that is part of who she is, but at the same time it isn't who she is. am i like that too? i don't know... i know i am an image type, certainly, but i feel like i am more open, more forthright, more ready to admit that i am a bit messed up... i am definitely not perfect... wish i was, but how much can i really pretend? i think she tries to sustain that image... sometimes i believe it too... sometimes i think she even believes it... i think people are usually impressed with me but would not be mistaken for perfect...

and this is nothing against any 3w2s if you are reading this (petra which is your wing?), i think you guys are generally my role models, so don't get me wrong! it's just interesting to know this person up close and see our differences.

but then i compare myself to my cousin (i can't imagine her as anything but a 4, probably 4w5), who is generally brimming with angst and needing attention and needing to be special and needing to be different, and i can't really see myself as that either... i do understand the need, but i can't imagine going about it in the way she does... she pushes people away... i think it might have a bit to do with birth-order and parent difference though, i was the first child of two very attentive (a bit overprotective) parents and she was the second child of one quite controlling yet self-absorbed and one loving but somewhat odd and often not there due to a night job parent... anyway... confusing...

4. traits

anyway from a bigger lens, i think when it comes down to it i would say the 4 traits describe me best as a whole. and then probably the 7 traits. and then the 3 traits. though i have read that 4/3 and 7/6 are often quite alike.



*runs away*

 

[Speed Gavroche]

You know also what I think Skylights. If you don't feel different, you are not a 4, if achievement is not a compulsion you are not a 3. If you take a will to be creative + the will to be succesfull in order to be validated and to not live up your parent's expectation + loyalty of a team player - the feeling of being different - self assurance - ambition + dreamy personality, you obtain type 6. You describe yourself as rather shy or akward, wich is more a 6w7 thing. Even if 3s can be like that. But one of the biggest difference I think is that 3 amplify their success, a fail is a "partial success" for them, while 6s experiment frequently a sort of "amnesia of success".

I put again a list of examples from different types, from the So/Sx variant, plus some new examples, but you know my opinion.

3w2 So/Sx
Tyra Banks:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9URknuu-18c
Tara Reid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaW10IsGA_E
Shakira:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bJmeraH_YQ

3w4 So/Sx
Bill Clinton:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNIBFSMjb8
Sarah Michelle Gellar:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHUWlVfv0Cc
Bella Thorne:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMi_DXkMEIA

4w3 So/Sx
Siouxie Sioux:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4TZYCP8tTA
Michael Jackson:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W70Y_CHnJhQ
Karen O:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8rfHq1DTGI&feature=related

6w7 So/Sx
Kim Basinger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heYegD-ZRBY&feature=related
Ron Howard:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD7taMojzjg&feature=related
Michael Moore:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHlnqIYWdy8
Adam Ant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx6T6DTppNQ&feature=related
Tom Hanks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_vKqVSgZOI
James Spader: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ZXA4DWzaI
Matt Damon:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgeanCDy0Vc
Brittany Murphy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFiXNDNg_LU
Rose Byrne: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiropSm1lZM
Lily Allen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwyLQGQw2Tk
Amanda Bynes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcriFNNDx1c
Evan Rachel Wood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SilJDUrFAOo
Hilary Duff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNEVC1xiDRs

7w6 So/Sx
Jim Carey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqCEKTgXPlI
Brad Pitt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZemqIwZ6oug
Will Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hEoc7Cr-is
Cameron Diaz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpGFKEzTtQw
Kirsten Dunst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyJCQfw-2Cg

 

[skylights]

thanks speed

i think i am most like evan rachel wood 6w7, then rose byrne 6w7, then clinton 3w4 and karen o 4w3. i am not like amanda bynes 6w7 or kim basinger 6w7, though. their energy is so tense. my energy is softer, i think. i am a bit self-conscious but rarely tense.

interestingly i really related to tyra's feelings about that bathing suit picture. i never would have really thought i was much like tyra at all but i think i would have reacted in the exact same way. she wasn't as much ashamed as she was really pissed off and protective. that's how i get when someone says shit about me, too. pissed off and protective of how it could impact others. and she was annoyed at the interviewer who wanted her to say that she felt ashamed. what a shitty thing of the interviewer to do.

and i love lily allen. most likeable person ever.

i still don't know about 6 though. this: "Sixes are reliable, hard-working, responsible, and trustworthy" is probably the last set of adjectives i'd use to describe myself. "can also become defensive, evasive, and anxious." does describe me well, however.

if i had to choose 4 adjectives... curious, empathetic, aesthetic - and i asked my brother and he said a 4th trait was that i was a good leader. i don't really like to, but if things aren't getting done and they need to get done, i can and will take control of the situation. he says my biggest weaknesses are that i need people and am emotional. i would tend to agree. he couldn't place me on the enneagram. i just change so much depending on environment.

i can't make a video, but i could make a soundclip of myself talking...?



one other idea. i'll throw out all the personality test things i've done. maybe it'll give a "big picture", a vibe.

global 3 - 33% stability ; 50% orderliness ; 70% extraversion
global 5 - SLxAI (i am really balanced between organized/unstructured on the globals - i'm not always organized but i am definitely a planner)
western astrology - pisces on the cusp of aquarius, moon in aries, taurus rising
chinese astrology - dragon
draw-a-pig (lol!) - realist; believe in tradition; friendly; remember important dates; insecure; good listener
handwriting - strong need for contact; social; talkative; like to be organized; strong, vital, energetic and affectionate; well adjusted and harmonious; reliable and conscientious with leadership qualities; energetic, optimistic, and assertive; tend toward sensitivity, refinement, modesty, and spirituality
sleeping position - long for security, intimacy and joy
vase visualization - right-brained, vivid imagination

 

[Speed Gavroche]

thanks speed

i think i am most like evan rachel wood, then rose byrne, then clinton and karen o. i am not like amanda bynes or kim basinger, though. their energy is so tense. my energy is softer, i think. i am a bit self-conscious but rarely tense.

So you identify first with 6w7 examplesn then 3w4 and 4w3. Anyway, Evan Rachel Wood is very 3ish, I think.

interestingly i really related to tyra's feelings about that bathing suit picture. i never would have really thought i was much like tyra at all but i think i would have reacted in the exact same way. she wasn't as much ashamed as she was really pissed off and protective. that's how i get when someone says shit about me, too. pissed off and protective of how it could impact others. and she was annoyed at the interviewer who wanted her to say that she felt ashamed. what a shitty thing of the interviewer to do.

That remember Naomi Campbell from another interview. And she is a 6w5 Sx/Sp, observe the kinesthesic diferences:

[youtube=f-DFKEQmAKg]Naomi Campbel 6w5 Sx/Sp[/youtube]

and i love lily allen. most likeable person ever.

Agree. She's ESTP by the way.

i still don't know about 6 though. this: "Sixes are reliable, hard-working, responsible, and trustworthy." is probably the last set of adjectives i'd use to describe myself.

Graah! Yes! Me either. I'm not like that at all. It often seems to me that enneatypes descriptions are biased. For example, type 8 description are often of 8w7 more than anything else, types 7 description is often about the Sexual variant, and type 6 description is always more related with the 6w5 Sp/So-6w5 So/Sp variant, very grounded, hard-working, enforcer of the rules, prussian, down-to-heart, boring, trooper, SJish as hell. But most part of 6 are not like that. James Spader, Britanny Murphy or Lilly Allen are the exact opposite of this. 6s are mentals, not necessarly grounded. Some of them are, but not every. On my own variant you can find the writer Charles Bukowski who was one of the least hard-working person of America, unable to keep a regular job or to follow any sort of setting goals.

See another example, like Ozzy Osbourne for example, do you find him "reliable, hard-working, responsible, and trustworthy"?

[youtube=T-Sc09GqwKA]Ozzy Osbourne 6w7 Sx/Sp[/youtube]

You can also find Hitler, of course, but of course I don't relate.

"can also become defensive, evasive, and anxious." does describe me well, however.

Then it's possible. Also, 6s are mental and have a vivid imagination, an heightened intuition,they are excellent troobleshooter and problem solvers, but problem arise when their mental abilities make them aware of every sort of potential danger.

i can't make a video, but i could make a soundclip of myself talking, perhaps...?

If you have a webcam and an access to youtube, you can make a video easily.

one other idea. i'll throw out all the personality test things i've done. maybe it'll give a good "big picture", a vibe.

global 3 - 33% stability ; 50% orderliness ; 70% extraversion
global 5 - SLxAI (i am really balanced between organized/unstructured on the globals)
western astrology - pisces on the cusp of aquarius, moon in aries, taurus rising
chinese astrology - dragon
draw-a-pig (lol!) - realist; believe in tradition; friendly; remember important dates; insecure; good listener
handwriting - strong need for contact; social; talkative; like to be organized; strong, vital, energetic and affectionate; well adjusted and harmonious; reliable and conscientious with leadership qualities; energetic, optimistic, and assertive; tend toward sensitivity, refinement, modesty, and spirituality
sleeping position - long for security, intimacy and joy
vase visualization - right-brained, vivid imagination

Bolded: you mean you are Pisces ascendant Taurus or possibly Aquarius ascendant Pisces? That's funny because I'am a Taurus ascendant Aquarius, but possibly ascendant Pisces.

I relate also totally with the right brained/vivid imagination thing.

Also, what do you think about what I wrote on the previous post?

one of the biggest difference I think is that 3 amplify their success, a fail is a "partial success" for them, while 6s experiment frequently a sort of "amnesia of success".

 

[skylights]

That remember Naomi Campbell from another interview. And she is a 6w5 Sx/Sp, observe the kinesthesic diferences:

ah, yes, interesting. i see what you mean. i see the w5/w7 difference in her, as well. she seems more detached.

Agree. She's ESTP by the way.

she's lovely. i guess i understand that "the buddy" title enneagraminstitute gives the 6w7 in thinking of her. she just seems like she would just be the easiest person to get along with.

Graah! Yes! Me either. I'm not like that at all. It often seems to me that enneatypes descriptions are biased. For example, type 8 description are often of 8w7 more than anything else, types 7 description is often about the Sexual variant, and type 6 description is always more related with the 6w5 Sp/So-6w5 So/Sp variant, very grounded, hard-working, enforcer of the rules, prussian, down-to-heart, boring, trooper, SJish as hell. But most part of 6 are not like that. James Spader, Britanny Murphy or Lilly Allen are the exact opposite of this. 6s are mentals, not necessarly grounded. Some of them are, but not every. On my own variant you can find the writer Charles Bukowski who was one of the least hard-working person of America, unable to keep a regular job or to follow any sort of setting goals.

See another example, like Ozzy Osbourne for example, do you find him "reliable, hard-working, responsible, and trustworthy"?

noooo. none of those things. i see what you mean though.

You can also find Hitler, of course, but of course I don't relate.

oh well... he has to belong to some type...

i almost feel bad for him, sometimes. i mean yes he was a complete asshole and caused awful terrible things but it's not like he could ever have managed that without the agreement of hundreds and thousands of others... it's not really his fault they agreed with him...

Then it's possible. Also, 6s are mental and have a vivid imagination, an heightened intuition,they are excellent troobleshooter and problem solvers, but problem arise when their mental abilities make them aware of every sort of potential danger.

yes, that sounds like me. i can catastrophize myself into a corner. i assumed it was a Ne attribute, though, because Ne sees all possibilities, both good and bad. i am a good troubleshooter... i have a magic technology touch... i can fix pretty much anything

If you have a webcam and an access to youtube, you can make a video easily.

yeahh no webcam is the problem. i suppose i could borrow a friends' but to be honest i'm a little hesitant to put a video on here anyway. i share so much deep stuff that i like my anonymity

Bolded: you mean you are Pisces ascendant Taurus or possibly Aquarius ascendant Pisces? That's funny because I'am a Taurus ascendant Aquarius, but possibly ascendant Pisces.

i'm sun sign pisces and ascendant taurus, but my sun is right on the edge of aquarius. i think it's only like 1 or 2 degrees in. i've read that is supposed to impact people to be slightly more like a mix of the signs... anyway that's cool! we're like inverses

Also, what do you think about what I wrote on the previous post?

one of the biggest difference I think is that 3 amplify their success, a fail is a "partial success" for them, while 6s experiment frequently a sort of "amnesia of success".

haha, sorry i didn't respond to that, i'm kind of in the middle, i think. i suppose if i have to choose probably i lean more to the amnesia side. perhaps i see 3 in that i feel a need to keep being successful, a driving need, but i tend to downplay my successes as well because i'm always comparing myself to others and because i feel like if i'm not doing anything right now then i'm sort of a failure. i'm going to sound like i'm terribly bragging, but i've achieved quite a bit... my mom started teaching me to write early, because i spoke very well... then in school i was always top of my class without really trying that hard, i was always a procrastinator... took the hardest classes i could in high school, went to a good uni and did the most challenging program there... did well academically and as a social leader... am in many groups... etc... i've had research published, spoken at several conferences, etc... when i go to list it, it surprises me somewhat... but if i compare myself to other people, or when i'm in between projects, i feel quite down on myself... there was this one girl in high school (i'd put money on 3w2 so/sx) who was just an incredible overacheiver and i sort of feel like i'll never be as good as her, you know? it's a shitty feeling. though recently she's been pursuing a career that i really wouldn't be interested in... so that makes me feel a bit better...

and then my success need, it's somewhat more holistic. i don't like getting a 70 on a paper because i neglected to turn it in on time, but if i can still make an A in the class, it doesn't really matter... i don't have that polish i see in the 3w2s i know (i don't think i really know any 3w4s, at least not well enough to identify them), i assume because i'm distractable moment-to-moment. and obviously i sacrifice the beauty of the 3w2 because of that. i wish i could be that professional. but then it's confusing with the 3s, too, because they're almost always Js... i can't tell if that "edge" is J or 3. ExTPs have that edge too. clinton seems ExFP to me, and i relate to his energy. so is it that i'm really 6w7, or is it that i'm an FP 3w4? i don't know what bella thorne is though. young, lol.

anyway - in general, as long as i'm successful overall, i can be odd and break rules if i want, but people will still like me. i think i learned as a young child that if you succeeded, then you could circumvent the rules somewhat, you know? if you do what you're supposed to then your parents will really be proud of you and also let you goof off in other areas. if you're good, that's nice, but if you're the best, you can get away with things. if you're the top student then the teachers praise you and also don't really care if you read or play on your calculator during class. if you were in this top program in high school, you got to skip class sometimes. in general, if you succeed at certain key things, you get not just praise, but also freedom. it's really quite a wonderful position to be in. so that's what i do. i take care of what i need to. and then everyone is happy with me and i get to do what i please. it's just confusing when it's not clear what i need to do... when there's no system, you can't beat the system...



the other thing i've noticed in comparison to a 3 i know is how when she gets upset, she tends to dive into activities to drown her feelings out (i used to think it was purely to make herself look good superficially... haha... now that i know her better i know she's just evading whatever is bothering her...). whereas i tend to introspect. when something is going wrong she does not want to talk about it. i do. but that's an isolated case, really, and i think she's 3w2 sp-first, which could be a major factor too.

oh found my list! i'm -
rising sign in taurus - practical, stubborn, outwardly self-assured but turmoil within, appreciate luxury, trouble with inertia
sun in pisces - emotional, sensitive, intuitive
moon in aries - high-spirited and courageous, a fighter when emotions are high
mercury in aquarius - opinionated and original
venus in aries - affectionate but demanding
mars in sagittarius - motivated by high standards and ideals and want action
jupiter in aries - the way i need to grow is in becoming more independent and individualistic
saturn in capricorn - serious and mature, trustworthy, organized, and achieving
[omitting generational ones]
node in pisces - attracted to those in need of assistance

i don't usually put much investment in astrology but i went and looked up all my family members' charts and they seem surprisingly well-suited to each of us and not as well-suited to one another. part of me is pleased and part of me is like nuh uh

 

[Thalassa]

This is interesting to me, although I'm not so/sx but sx/sp, I've had the 3w4 or 4w3 question myself, and I find that the examples you gave here I relate more to the 3w4 and the 6w7...like Sarah Michelle Gellar, primarily, I think I'm really smiley and forceful and talk about myself like that when I know people are looking at me, but I could also relate somewhat to Amanda Bynes.


EDIT: Hillary Duff, too...wasn't expecting that, look at me and my prejudice against her music!

 

[OrangeAppled]

Pondering these questions always squelch my wondering whether I am really a 5w4 and not a 4w5. Maybe try it out yourself:
-Think about times when your sense of identity was threatened somehow - how was it threatened, how did you react & what about it upset you the most?
-Outside of moral issues, what is the worst thing you could be in life? (ie. common, unsafe, unacknowledged, etc)

Think about how your answers relate to the core fears of every enneagram type.

As for 3 vs 4, another thing to consider is that 4s, being ego-driven (consciously seeking rational distinction of self, in this case, by being unique), are aware of their core motivations more than other types (with the exception of 5s & 9s, also ego-driven). 3s, being Id-driven (impulsively seeking gratification, in this case via achievement) are less in touch with it & may have a harder time identifying their motivations, as they tend to identify with whatever seems to garner admiration (and in online typology communities, 4s & 5s tend to rule). This means 4s are usually aware of needing to be unique, even when that means not being admired (ie. unique to the point of disturbing other people). You'll hear 4s express that much more openly than many other types, even if they are unfamiliar with enneagram. Strangely, the 4 wing with a 3 may make a person aware they need to be unique, but it will make the 3 denial aspect stronger, as the 3 need for status may conflict with the 4 need for individuality (ie. 3 desires seem "phony" on paper). Basically, in typing themselves, 3s have to be careful not to choose the more appealing type. It's just a blind spot to be aware of for anyone considering enneagram 3.

A lot of e3 reads FJ to me (or even tertiary Fe in ExTPs), so it's hard to imagine FPs being a 3 sometimes.... I might also suggest looking at it from the angle of Fi idealism - the status/achievement aspect may feel like an extension of meeting some inner ideal rather than being driven by social values. Not saying I think you're a 3....I really don't know.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

To Skylight.

6s and 7s are both oriented to possibilities. But in a different way. Anyway, if you lean more on the amnesia side, you lean more on 6. 3s also work hard because they feel more loved when they are succesfull while you say that you are more secure and that you can avoid more easily interventions from powerfull authorities and systems, wich are very much more Enneatype 6 concerns.

By the way, where have yopu found theses astrology stuff? Because I have my Vénus in Ares and my saturn in Capricorn as well and I really relate on the descriptions.

This is interesting to me, although I'm not so/sx but sx/sp, I've had the 3w4 or 4w3 question myself, and I find that the examples you gave here I relate more to the 3w4 and the 6w7...like Sarah Michelle Gellar, primarily, I think I'm really smiley and forceful and talk about myself like that when I know people are looking at me, but I could also relate somewhat to Amanda Bynes.


EDIT: Hillary Duff, too...wasn't expecting that, look at me and my prejudice against her music!

I talked about this with Petra a little, I think you are a 6w7 Sx/Sp. Sparrow, her, I think she's a 3w4 Sx/Sp. The energies relase are very different, Sparrow is more energic, self-assured and productive, you are more on a mix between meekness and strength, with a more hesitant, ethereal and nervous energy at the same time, very much mental. I'll put examples from different variants to illustrate it.

[youtube=JnGtf05eLE8]Sparrow (?)3w4 Sx/Sp(?)[/youtube]

3w4 Sx/Sp
Billie Holliday:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88x5vdh8nQY
Sidney Poitier:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnjTANhBu3k
Tom Cruise:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlAz_zgSmxg
Christina Aguilera:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrED9MB1zDY

I feel her very like Christina Aguilera, but more quiet and reflective and less bitchy, like Billie Holliday and Sidney Poitier are.

[youtube=AkBa7ya3TjU]Marmalade Sunrise (?)6w7 Sx/Sp(?)[/youtube]

6w7 Sx/Sp
Marilyn Monroe:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuZgkVvyV-o
Ozzy Osbourne:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reg5DRAB3lA
Henry Rollins:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9eJnqqDec&feature=related
Princess Diana:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlxs_JG1dDA
Emmanuelle Béart:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=550z8lO9eXM
Angelina Jolie:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qboHl0c-uEo&feature=related
Avril Lavigne:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJcYImLoS8&playnext=1&list=PLE217D95254AC06CC
Emma Stone:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhK-gu_v4E8

I feel you between Emma Stone, Ozzy Osbourne and Emmanuelle Béart. Princess Diana also a little but she's very much more phobic. Marilyn Monroe and Henry Rollins not really. Queen Kat is of that variant as well, she's very like Avril Lavigne, has ever been compared with her. What do you think about?

 

[Thalassa]

Aleksei thinks I'm a 6, too, and so did Aramis...I actuallty typed as 6w7 for a while. I still have it as second in my tritype.

I looooove Emma Stone. If I was gay I'd be gay with her. What's her MBTI/Jungian type?

I can see Emmanneulle Beart, too, the way she talks. It's a mixture of articulation, confidence, strength, yet a hint of shyness or being a little withdrawn (anxious, I suppose is the word in 6 land).

I have had to be treated for anxiety in the past so that makes a lot of sense, too.

As for Diana I could definitely identify with her a bit, but she is more introverted, definitely IxFP. I guess counterphobic is more of a common leaning for me. I have to face my fear, usually. I guess my states of anxiety would be phobic periods for me, though.

I had no clue Ozzy was 6w7. He's ISFP, right?

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Aleksei thinks I'm a 6, too,

Aleksei is not always wrong.

and so did Aramis...I actuallty typed as 6w7 for a while. I still have it as second in my tritype.

Personnaly I don't use the "trifix" thing, because this is very confusing, and it seems to me that it drive away people of their core problematic and core type rather than give them a more full and complete understanding of themselves. You are 6 first, as far as I can tell.

I looooove Emma Stone. If I was gay I'd be gay with her.

I understand you here.

What's her MBTI/Jungian type?

I don't know. xSFP maybe?

I can see Emmanneulle Beart, too, the way she talks. It's a mixture of articulation, confidence, strength, yet a hint of shyness or being a little withdrawn (anxious, I suppose is the word in 6 land).

I have had to be treated for anxiety in the past so that makes a lot of sense, too.

Enneatypes of people are often recognizable in a kinesthesic approach, 1,2, 3, 4 etc, display a very characteristic energy, very similar, this is really obvious in workshop when people of the same enneatype are together. Anxiety issues are the passion of type 6, and to challenge it is a big issue as well.

As for Diana I could definitely identify with her a bit, but she is more introverted, definitely IxFP. I guess counterphobic is more of a common leaning for me. I have to face my fear, usually. I guess my states of anxiety would be phobic periods for me, though.

Diana was an INFP. Personally I have been like this sometimes, in moment of extrem guilty. Sexual 6 are mainly counterphobic, but seldom are those who are totally like that.

I had no clue Ozzy was 6w7. He's ISFP, right?

He is an ESFP. Oh and very 6w7, yes. But anxiety is not always noticable. Males axample of type 6 can include some like Lou Reed, Mike Tyson, Axl Rose, 2pac or Charles Bukowski, very strong people who are hardly associated with type 6 because of the image of the type as weak. Female examples include also Amy Winehouse, Béatrice Dalle, Naomi Campbell, Lady Gaga or Lindsay Lohan as well as Faith from Buffy the vampire Slayer, where there is a tight note of anxiety and an essential disquietude, but hardly noticable and visible.

Also, what convinced me that you are 6w7 Sx/Sp is that I have a female friend who is 7w6 Sp/Sx (ENFJ) and it is really like you shared the same "material" but used in a differant way, with not the same priorities and focused of attention.

THANK YOU!!!

You're welcome.

 

[skylights]

Aleksei is not always wrong.

! i miss having him around, unfortunate that he got himself banned. again.

A lot of e3 reads FJ to me (or even tertiary Fe in ExTPs), so it's hard to imagine FPs being a 3 sometimes.... I might also suggest looking at it from the angle of Fi idealism - the status/achievement aspect may feel like an extension of meeting some inner ideal rather than being driven by social values. Not saying I think you're a 3....I really don't know.

yes, exactly. Fe and e3 (and e2, for that matter) can so easily go hand-in-hand. much the same as for how e5 and Ti dom, e8 and Te dom, e7 and Se dom, or e4/9 and Fi dom just easily go together. i wonder what an average FP 3 would look like.

that's a good idea, about framing in Fi ideals. i think what happens to me is just that i'm not always motivated to work on things i'm falling behind in, until i know i'm going to be seen by others. like, take my car. ideally i would love to keep my car shiny clean. but i'm quite busy, and a lot of times i forget to clean certain things out of my car, and they pile up. i never let it get very bad - just not as sparkling as i'd like it to be. but the full cleaning just doesn't get done because while it bothers me, it doesn't bother me enough until other people might see it. i'm much, much happier when my car is cleaner, but it's not always a priority until it threatens my external identity. once i almost cried because my mom decided to use my car when it was messy, i was so embarrassed. but then, i'm definitely sp last, and i tend to take care of my own things in last priority. so i don't know if it's really being a 3, or just complete and total sp deficiency.

As for 3 vs 4, another thing to consider is that 4s, being ego-driven (consciously seeking rational distinction of self, in this case, by being unique), are aware of their core motivations more than other types (with the exception of 5s & 9s, also ego-driven). 3s, being Id-driven (impulsively seeking gratification, in this case via achievement) are less in touch with it & may have a harder time identifying their motivations, as they tend to identify with whatever seems to garner admiration (and in online typology communities, 4s & 5s tend to rule). This means 4s are usually aware of needing to be unique, even when that means not being admired (ie. unique to the point of disturbing other people). You'll hear 4s express that much more openly than many other types, even if they are unfamiliar with enneagram. Strangely, the 4 wing with a 3 may make a person aware they need to be unique, but it will make the 3 denial aspect stronger, as the 3 need for status may conflict with the 4 need for individuality (ie. 3 desires seem "phony" on paper). Basically, in typing themselves, 3s have to be careful not to choose the more appealing type. It's just a blind spot to be aware of for anyone considering enneagram 3.

hm, thank you, i will keep this in mind

and yeah, i feel in a weird place between these two. like, i'd rather self-disclose and discover who i am, but if it's unacceptable, then i might avoid sharing it. there are boundaries. i feel so odd in that i seem so much to be a 4 - like i think i fit the stereotype rather well... aesthetic, emotional, daydreamy, introspective - but then i don't really think about being unique much. i just... sometimes am, sometimes am not... i dunno, i've not really ever thought of being myself in terms of being different, even though i do soul-search very much. if anything, part of my search to find myself is figuring out where i want to belong, and how to make that happen. i know that i'm unique and special, i guess, i don't really ever feel threatened in that way. i'm much more uncomfortable with the prospect of being alone.

i thought i'd answer your questions IRL... what the heck

brace yourself for soft, giggly, reflective (and about to fall asleep) ENFP!

and my first-ever youtube video

the little inaudible bit around 30 seconds is just something about liking relaxing music, haha. don't feel like you have to listen to all 11 minutes... i was a bit slow/rambly... for the meat of the 1st question (when is your identity threatened) skip to 6:12, i answered the 2nd one (what would be the absolute worst thing) first and it took me a while lol

[video removed for privacy :blushing:]

 

[Chloe]

6s are not image conscious FFS. you cant idenify yourself as in image triad and then end up as 6!!!

Even Maitri gives advice for typing yourself and others as ; talk about your concerns, most honestly, in front of 3 people and then they will asses in which triad you belong.
Being changeable is because you both are Ps, so that goes with 6's "indecisiveness".

 

[Chloe]

Omg skylights you have the most sexy voice ever haha! I stopped listening just to post this

U sexy thing!


And why not web cam - image consciousness maybeee? (JUST WANT TO PROVE URE 3)


Now going to listen ur video...


I promise i will think polite, enneagram thoughts while listening to ur voice

 

[skylights]

^ :blushing: well thank you that is a lovely compliment

he he he polite enneagram thoughts. i do talk about underwear, i'm sorry, my own fault

not webcam because... haha yes a little self-conscious... though mostly just because i like my anonymity

 

[Starry]

skylights you really do have a beautiful voice. And I don't know if this will make sense (I just posted something weird on a different thread as I guess I'm in a strange mood LOL) but that voice comes through or I can 'hear' that voice in your writing.

And...when I read these threads of yours I become so confused about my own e-type. If you and Marm are 6w7 then I must be 7w6(and if you are where does phobia & counterphobia come into play?) . Uff enneagram is confusing.

 

[Thalassa]

Skylights does have a sweet voice! Wish there was video...

 

[garbage]

ground floor on this thread, as I've thought about either 3w4 or 6w5 myself

That Bill Clinton video seems pretty close to the way I speak, actually

A lot of e3 reads FJ to me (or even tertiary Fe in ExTPs),

I thought about this in the e3 descriptions, too. The desire to be well-liked, the inclination toward subtly reading other people in order to determine what they want you to be.. well, a comparison to a not-completely-grounded Fe is pretty hard to ignore.

 

[Chloe]

Type 6 is grossly overtypes bc all ppl have Six element in then - i even read this somewhere.. Anxiety is common to all ppl not only 6s while ex. hoarding is much reserved for Fives....

I think Six is dumpster where thwy throw so much of other stuff bc almost everybody can relate ( raise your hand if you ever took anxiolitics LOL!)