Do people change?

[Edgar]

Don't you mean Father Frost?

Yes, but especially the Snow Maiden.

 

[Thessaly]

Well I used to believe in Santy Clause when I was a kid too. I guess I was an INFJ then.

Childhood beliefs are not quite the same as spiritual beliefs.

 

[Thessaly]

I'm not going to argue with you if you're not going to make a decent argument. Aren't you a lawyer? Where's your logic skillz?

 

[Edgar]

Childhood beliefs are not quite the same as spiritual beliefs.

Yes, and tomatoes are not quite the same as those other red vegetables that taste like tomatoes.

Anyway, I knew this conversation would degenerate into the nitpicking of definitions.

 

[Thalassa]

Thessaly: I've wondered that on occasion myself, and the conclusion I came to is apparently he must get tired of arguing at work.

 

[Edgar]

I'm not going to argue with you if you're not going to make a decent argument. Aren't you a lawyer? Where's your logic skillz?

No, I'm not a lawyer. Whoever told you that is a lying knave.

 

[guesswho]

^ Science seems to prove otherwise.

What's impressive is the neuroscientific research that supports the popular notion that where there's a will for change, there's a way for change. Please read my previous post and one of the articles I found.

Ok, I need to rephrase what I said in a logical way.

The people I know, have not changed, 0.000001450116% of Earth's population. Science can't prove that otherwise.

I find it REALLY hard to believe that there is a considerable amount of people achieving a big change. As I said, change needs context, when there is no context, there is no change (towards good).

For instance, poverty, doesn't facilitate a change towards good.

Change needs to be facilitated.

And we are talking about 2 different things, you're talking about the biologic change that will result in behavioral change, and I am talking about the social environment.
Both things seem valid to me.

I also stick to my opinion that a self destructive, or some kind of negative change is more encountered, particularly because it's easier to achieve.
A constructive change is harder to achieve.

And my opinion can be highly subjective since I'm very pissed about change in general

 

[Thessaly]

Yes, and tomatoes are not quite the same as those other red vegetables that taste like tomatoes.

Anyway, I knew this conversation would degenerate into the nitpicking of definitions.

What are you talking about? There has been no nit picking of definitions. You made a ridiculous analogy that did nothing to counter my argument. A childhood belief based upon stories that the entire world knows and accepts to be untrue cannot be equated with any sort of long-term spiritual belief held as an adult by millions of people worldwide. My worldview and philosophies on life have completely changed.

And I completely agree with you that what changes a person are their beliefs. Beliefs have tremendous power over the way we act and actions are exactly what leads to us changing.

 

[Edgar]

What are you talking about? There has been no nit picking of definitions. You made a ridiculous analogy that did nothing to counter my argument. A childhood belief based upon stories that the entire world knows and accepts to be untrue cannot be equated with any sort of long-term spiritual belief held as an adult by millions of people worldwide.

What does it matter how many people believe it? It doesn't make it anymore real. 1000 years ago people believed that the Earth was flat.

My worldview and philosophies on life have completely changed.

And I completely agree with you that what changes a person are their beliefs. Beliefs have tremendous power over the way we act and actions are exactly what leads to us changing.

You held an unfounded belief that if you act a certain way, God will reward you because that's what your parents taught you. Then you came to a conclusion that that story was BS. Now you act a certain way because the society/friends/mate/Macy's sales rep will reward you.

You've clung to one thing, and now you cling to another. I would bet that the approach and style are the same.

I have a Blu Ray player. I put plastic disks in it. Sometimes its a sad movie, sometimes its a happy one, but they are processed in the same way. 1080 definition, NTSC, surround sound, etc. But no matter what disk I put in it, it won't turn into a toaster.

Or kind of like those movies about two similar guys who were friends as kids. One grew up and became a cop, the other grew up and become a mafioso. Both enforce a certain code of conduct with similar strength of convictions. They just happen to be on different sides of the law.

Does that makes sense?

No?

Well then enjoy your new life as a different person.

 

[Tamske]

Of course we change. Except for atoms in bones, not a single atom in your body was there when you were ten years younger. Still the pattern stays the same. We are waves rather than particles. Like sound - the same music is heard next to the musician and a few meters away, yet the air molecules vibrating to make up the sound are different ones.

But I guess you're not talking about atoms here

I think people can and do change. Sometimes drastically, sometimes gradually. The change can be induced by situations, other people, or decisions by the person himself. There's something called learning. I wasn't a teacher a few years ago, now I am. You can say it is just a role I learnt to play and that my fundamental self hasn't changed at all, but then I wonder what on earth a "fundamental self" is. What sets me apart from other people are mostly things that I'm good at, things I like to do because I'm good at them and things I'm good at because I like to do them and practise often. I consider "teacher" as a part of my personality - being a teacher influences my views on quite a few things.

 

[Poki]

Transitive or intransitive? People are subject to object, therefore object of subject.
Subject to change. Object of change.
Time and loci change.
People do not.

We are changed. By time and loci.

Experience

 

[Virtual ghost]

Of course.

 

[Poki]

What are you talking about? There has been no nit picking of definitions. You made a ridiculous analogy that did nothing to counter my argument. A childhood belief based upon stories that the entire world knows and accepts to be untrue cannot be equated with any sort of long-term spiritual belief held as an adult by millions of people worldwide. My worldview and philosophies on life have completely changed.

And I completely agree with you that what changes a person are their beliefs. Beliefs have tremendous power over the way we act and actions are exactly what leads to us changing.

Dont the majority of kids believ in Santa. Wouldnt the perception of losing faith in santa at that age where everyone else(kids) believes be equivalent to an adult losing faith in god where everyone else(adults) believes?

 

[Queen Kat]

I changed, but not on purpose. I hope that I'll change back to the way I was, before I'm dead. You know, changing into a worse version of yourself is easy, but becoming a better version of yourself takes a lot of hard work. I changed into a worse version and going back is really hard. I could also try to accept it and just get my revenge. That sounds fun too.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I've seen peopls make big changes in their way of relating to others. In each case, it has taken a very painful loss that makes the person question their basic view of reality and of themselves.

 

[Poser]

I had a friend in high school that was in a car accident that caused some brain injuries. When she recovered from the accident, she was a totally different person. Her whole personality changed. So I would say that people could change over time. I don't see why a chemical pathway that led to one way of thinking couldn't be changed over a span of time if the person wanted it bad enough.

 

[Rex]

Drugs can chance someone permanently..i think.

 

[Poki]

Drugs can chance someone permanently..i think.

Not really...drugs can stunt someones growth as a person in certain areas. Its no different then any time you begin to "rely" on something. Dependencies stunt growth.

 

[Thessaly]

Dont the majority of kids believ in Santa. Wouldnt the perception of losing faith in santa at that age where everyone else(kids) believes be equivalent to an adult losing faith in god where everyone else(adults) believes?

No, for fucks sake it's a terrible analogy. Kids don't reevaluate the meaning of their lives after they discover Santa isn't real. Kids don't actually hold such concepts about life. They don't have the ability to engage in complex reasoning or independent thought for the most part. Discovering Santa isn't real as a child is like learning about any other new thing that is presented to them. There is nothing very profound about it. They feel minor disappointment for MINUTES.

And making such an analogy shows a huge amount of disrespect towards religion and spiritual beliefs. Only something an unenlightened asshole would do.

 

[Thessaly]

What does it matter how many people believe it? It doesn't make it anymore real. 1000 years ago people believed that the Earth was flat.



You held an unfounded belief that if you act a certain way, God will reward you because that's what your parents taught you. Then you came to a conclusion that that story was BS. Now you act a certain way because the society/friends/mate/Macy's sales rep will reward you.

You've clung to one thing, and now you cling to another. I would bet that the approach and style are the same.

I have a Blu Ray player. I put plastic disks in it. Sometimes its a sad movie, sometimes its a happy one, but they are processed in the same way. 1080 definition, NTSC, surround sound, etc. But no matter what disk I put in it, it won't turn into a toaster.

Or kind of like those movies about two similar guys who were friends as kids. One grew up and became a cop, the other grew up and become a mafioso. Both enforce a certain code of conduct with similar strength of convictions. They just happen to be on different sides of the law.

Does that makes sense?

No?

Well then enjoy your new life as a different person.

You've gone from belief systems to someone's core personality. I assure you people experience personality changes in the different phases of their life. Much remains the same, but much changes as well. If you want to ignore the latter so you can hold your narrow views go nuts.