[NF] Do you regret opening up to people?

[cafe]

Why is it so necessary to be externally validated?

What is the point of opening up to another if not to feel a little less alone?

 

[Yloh]

Do you ever regret opening up to someone?

Even my close friends when I show them my true feelings. My unfiltered thoughts, I feel really stupid afterwards. The next day I usually think to myself, "that was a really bad idea, now they have "dirt" on me."

Do you feel like this sometimes? What do you think it comes from?

Yes I do regret opening up to people. If the people I open up to give me a responce that doesn't show true concern, then I will stop opening up to that person. It pains me to open up to people who don't show love and support in return.

I feel this comes from, in part, of insecurity. Trying to please everybody is very difficult and being concerned about what others think is overwhelming.

 

[Unkindloving]

Been friends for fours years now, we're rooming together during our last year of college.

The female ENFJ just called him slow today when it comes to people . I consider that a bit harsh, but yeah he can be pretty oblivious to people's emotions and the more subtle parts of people.

It has been a while since we've talked about my fascination to ENFJs.

I still stand by what I said. The few (three) ENFJs that I've known aren't the type to explode and throw everything they know about you in your face. If it DID happen the ones I know would feel absolutely horrible about it soon afterwards. The two girl ENFJs that I know can be feisty, but good hearted and well intentioned.

Aw. You kids.
Hmm. Does he know anything of typology? Were I you, I'd be inclined to give him the Fe readout and provoke some introspection about his obliviousness. See where he feels it resonates or doesn't. That's just me though.. and also because I'm curious as an outsider.
Hm. My ENFJ has unintentionally damaged some people and is ridden with guilt over it. There is a difference between being pushed into a state of react, others being susceptible to unintentional damage, and actively damaging someone without reason. Would you say they just handle their situations well, or have yet to be pushed to their limits? If it's the latter.. I'd hope you get to be a spectator if one ever blows up on someone. It gets interesting, as I have been explaining to Udog recently.

ENFJs! this is so funny to me because, if most ENFJs are anything like the ENFJ i know well, you are very tricky to get to know on a deep level and you don't show your insecurities quickly. or sometimes you do show them a bit, but you do it in a very veiled way that most people aren't likely to pick up on. it's entertaining, but totally unsurprising to hear this, because i can totally see how it would happen.

i feel like i'm playing a key-and-lock game when my ENFJ friend starts expressing the tip of the iceberg about some worry she has. it's like i have to pick up on the right thing, and if i do, then she feels comfortable saying more. i used to get frustrated and wish she'd just go ahead and tell me, but i get the sense that it's a security thing. like she wants to make sure i'm on the right track in understanding her before she reveals her deep-seated worries to me. sometimes i'll miss the mark right off the bat but then i just ask a few questions and she'll start letting me in. it's a very interesting process, though i know she tends to bottle up stress and worry, and i think it could be hard on her if there's no one around who understands it.

NFPs tend to see past a lot of the vague dips into insecurities. They may need some guidance toward the juicy center of them, but they get their foot in that elevator door before it closes out the rest of the world.
Questioning out of pure curiosity is a weakness, methinks. Something that will make an ENFJ starry-eyed and more likely to share, but you're right about the security bit. You need to have proper authorization and your fingerprint/eyescan has to pass before you can go to a different level . I personally find someone misinterpreting me to spark a subconscious need to explain more of myself to them.

i think this is true too, but have you ever pushed one really far? like, really, really far? like as in giant ENFP Te attack far? that's when i've gotten ENFJ attacked back. they're good. i need about 50 words to do the sort of destruction an ENFJ can do in 15. ime, ENFJ-ENFP fight is not pretty... uch:

though, i have to point out, that this ENFJ friend is the one i trust to completely open up to. after we had one really bad tussle and kind of both felt like assholes about it we talked about what happened and realized that we act exactly opposite under stress and were freaking each other out. now that we know that, it's easier to catch one another, and ourselves, before we get too far.

ENFPs and ENFJs keeping each other in check. D'aw!
I've not witnessed or been involved in a tussle with an ENFP and it makes me curious. Most of mine have been with INFPs, which is like a different ball game on the same playing field.

Why is it so necessary to be externally validated?

Rawrhiss. I feel like this question is the reason this thread is in the NF idyllic and not the NT death-trap.
No hate. Just saying.

I have done things in my past that causes me to cringe that I myself would do such a thing... Many have involved me opening up.

This explains a lot. Mhmm. :jots things down on clip board:

 

[rav3n]

I dont think its necessary. It is nice though.

When you are in a close relationship with someone (platonic or romantic) and you show a piece of yourself, you want them to be able to accept it. It isn't a need, but it is an intense desire. I think it comes from the want to be able to show the ridiculous hot mess that I am and someone say, "thats ok, I still think you're awesome."

What is the point of opening up to another if not to feel a little less alone?

Aren't you both who you are without validation since it doesn't make you any more or less of a person, anymore or less real, anymore or less alone, than you are?

 

[mysavior]

I'm annoyed at how easily I can open up to people and share TMI. That said, its clear that regret frequently follows.

 

[Thalassa]

Aren't you both who you are without validation since it doesn't make you any more or less of a person, anymore or less real, anymore or less alone, than you are?

NFs crave this sort of connection, and can need external validation. I am the same way. It's who we are.

 

[Amargith]

Metaphor, you can be, sure, but to share that with others can make you feel safe, appreciated..not so alone in this world. NFs build bonds with other living creatures, it's what they're intent on doing. And it leads to great friendships, awesome relationships, tighnit communities. So it does have a purpose. But in order to be that in tune with one another, one has to open up, and in order to build the harmony that is essential to those bonds, to sustain them, to keep people from drifting apart, you need to be in tune with how other people, in that bond view things, in order to keep a synthesis of what is between the two (or more) of you. Otherwise that bond withers. That however also translates in a need to be validated, often because it is hard to detach from who you are and view yourself objectively. It helps you reassess whether you're doing everything you can to promote that harmony, and enriches your pov on the bond, the situation, yourself, for that matter. It helps you see other perspectives, and as such, new ways of experiencing life, experiencing other people...which in turn, creates once more a more in depth bond, providing more harmony and security

 

[cafe]

Aren't you both who you are without validation since it doesn't make you any more or less of a person, anymore or less real, anymore or less alone, than you are?

That's pretty irrelevant to how one actually feels. And no, I don't think you are just as alone with someone who is willing and able to validate you than you are without them. When someone validates you, they are joining with you, consciously and sharing the burden of the pain of life. When, instead, they show that they will not or cannot share in that burden with you then you are left worse off than if you hadn't tried to share it. At least if you don't you can keep the delusion that they might have if you'd asked them to.

We are a social species whether we like it or not.

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

Yes, I regret opening up to people on occasion. Mostly out of me trying to form or develop a closer bond, and they either don't want the same friendship as I do or they just don't care (or for any other list of various reasons).

It's mostly because I just want to get along with everyone and be friends with a lot of people, but really I only have a few friends and many, many acquaintances.

 

[Tiltyred]

I regret it every time. Things go so much better if I just keep people at arm's length. The exception is online, where I tend to make and keep friends for years.

 

[rav3n]

Metaphor, you can be, sure, but to share that with others can make you feel safe, appreciated..not so alone in this world. NFs build bonds with other living creatures, it's what they're intent on doing. And it leads to great friendships, awesome relationships, tighnit communities. So it does have a purpose. But in order to be that in tune with one another, one has to open up, and in order to build the harmony that is essential to those bonds, to sustain them, to keep people from drifting apart, you need to be in tune with how other people, in that bond view things, in order to keep a synthesis of what is between the two (or more) of you. Otherwise that bond withers. That however also translates in a need to be validated, often because it is hard to detach from who you are and view yourself objectively. It helps you reassess whether you're doing everything you can to promote that harmony, and enriches your pov on the bond, the situation, yourself, for that matter. It helps you see other perspectives, and as such, new ways of experiencing life, experiencing other people...which in turn, creates once more a more in depth bond, providing more harmony and security

Thanks, this provides me with more fuel for thought. I do understand that in order to get a deeper connection, there has to be a better understanding of the individual as a whole which includes trying or managing to understand their point of view. It can provide you with a larger picture perspective, in a complementary way of richness of tapestry.

That's pretty irrelevant to how one actually feels. And no, I don't think you are just as alone with someone who is willing and able to validate you than you are without them. When someone validates you, they are joining with you, consciously and sharing the burden of the pain of life. When, instead, they show that they will not or cannot share in that burden with you then you are left worse off than if you hadn't tried to share it. At least if you don't you can keep the delusion that they might have if you'd asked them to.

We are a social species whether we like it or not.

You and Satine are expressing similar concepts of depth of connection from different perspectives. Where Satine is more about depth of connection, your opinion appears to be based on the complementary nature of the interpersonal dynamic and how the other person can benefit you.

But in both, what someone thinks of you, neither minimalises or maximises who you inherently are, unless you allow their opinions to cause change within you.

Don't get me wrong. It is nice to be validated.

But where I hair-split, is where validation is necessary to be who you are. External view leans towards bias, since people view others and their actions through biased lenses of their own lives, experiences or perspectives; or the individual themselves hold back a part of themselves whether deliberately for many different reasons or simply because the observer is unable to grasp or is even interested in that side of them.

Anyways, hopefully we've provided each other with differing views.

 

[cafe]

You and Satine are expressing similar concepts of depth of connection from different perspectives. Where Satine is more about depth of connection, your opinion appears to be based on the complementary nature of the interpersonal dynamic and how the other person can benefit you.

But in both, what someone thinks of you, neither minimalises or maximises who you inherently are, unless you allow their opinions to cause change within you.

Don't get me wrong. It is nice to be validated.

But where I hair-split, is where validation is necessary to be who you are. External view leans towards bias, since people view others and their actions through biased lenses of their own lives, experiences or perspectives; or the individual themselves hold back a part of themselves whether deliberately for many different reasons or simply because the observer is unable to grasp or is even interested in that side of them.

Anyways, hopefully we've provided each other with differing views.

I don't see how that is relevant to how one feels about something, TBH.

 

[rav3n]

I don't see how that is relevant to how one feels about something, TBH.

Don't you ever try to balance out how you feel with what you think? Do emotions always stand alone for you? Do you feel something then if it makes you angry, strike out? Or do you ask yourself why you're angry and then find a way to bleed away the anger, if the reasons are irrational or not worth the effort of reaction?

 

[Thalassa]

Don't you ever try to balance out how you feel with what you think? Do emotions always stand alone for you? Do you feel something then if it makes you angry, strike out? Or do you ask yourself why you're angry and then find a way to bleed away the anger, if the reasons are irrational or not worth the effort of reaction?

It's extremely important to some people to feel understood and validated by other people. Not all of these people are NF...some are surely SF, others might even be Ts.

It doesn't mean they aren't capable of using their thinking function. You're confusing F with "emotionally reactive." This is inaccurate.

If we were to go by function theory (which I reject) ENTJ probably would be a good fit for you, seeing as that it places Fi in the inferior and it can make it very difficult for younger or less mature ExTJs to relate to Fs.

 

[rav3n]

Just chill marm. I'm not going to validate and accept without at least trying to understand the issue. And no amount of your attempted emotional manipulation will change this.

 

[Trentham]

When you are in a close relationship with someone (platonic or romantic) and you show a piece of yourself, you want them to be able to accept it. It isn't a need, but it is an intense desire. I think it comes from the want to be able to show the ridiculous hot mess that I am and someone say, "thats ok, I still think you're awesome."

I agree with the crux of what you're saying here. I think the problem a lot of people have with validating others is that they are unwilling to simply listen objectively and attempt to empathize, instead impulsively judging the other person's perceived faults based on their own biases. This is often done out of a desire to help the other person, but sometimes the other person doesn't want or need "help" or a quick solution to the problem. They just want someone to listen and attempt to understand their point of view.

Doesn't sound all that difficult. But in practice, it's exceedingly rare.

 

[cafe]

Don't you ever try to balance out how you feel with what you think? Do emotions always stand alone for you? Do you feel something then if it makes you angry, strike out? Or do you ask yourself why you're angry and then find a way to bleed away the anger, if the reasons are irrational or not worth the effort of reaction?

Emotions stand on their own merit as data, not all the data, but in this case they are primarily the relevant data. The question is do I regret opening up to people. My answer is 'yes, I usually do.' My feelings are relevant here because regret is a feeling. The reason *I* open up to others is in order to receive a feeling of validation. If it does not happen, then my desired goal was not accomplished. For me, it is not even neutral, it is a net loss, because I feel worse than I felt before I opened up. So, because I don't simply act upon my feelings, but analyze them, I have come to the conclusion that opening up to others is not a good strategy for me most of the time.

I know my feelings are valid. I want a companion in my joy and in my sorrow and I am willing to be that to others. Someone sharing my sorrow makes it feel not so big and someone sharing my joy makes it seem bigger.

So I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Are you saying that I shouldn't need validation because I should simply intellectualize my feelings and relegate them to a place of irrelevance, or that I should continue to open up to people whether it's working for me or not, or am I missing your point entirely?

 

[Thalassa]

Just chill marm. I'm not going to validate and accept without at least trying to understand the issue. And no amount of your attempted emotional manipulation will change this.

I am chill, and I'm not sure what you mean by "emotional manipulation" I'm just trying to explain something to you that you aren't getting.

You won't accept that connecting to others and feeling understood is at the core of some people's being, portraying it as though it were a weakness or a fault. While this might not be your preferred way of living, it is a trait of other personality types, and it contributes to the strengths and skills that we have.

That's what MBTI is really all about - not just understanding ourselves, but also trying to grasp that other people are different from you and that there isn't one right answer for THE WAY TO BE.

 

[MissLizzy]

I regret... sometimes too much. I feel like I said things that I couldn't, and that the person can use the things against me, or misunderstand what I said... It can be really discomfortable.

 

[rav3n]

Emotions stand on their own merit as data, not all the data, but in this case they are primarily the relevant data. The question is do I regret opening up to people. My answer is 'yes, I usually do.' My feelings are relevant here because regret is a feeling. The reason *I* open up to others is in order to receive a feeling of validation. If it does not happen, then my desired goal was not accomplished. For me, it is not even neutral, it is a net loss, because I feel worse than I felt before I opened up. So, because I don't simply act upon my feelings, but analyze them, I have come to the conclusion that opening up to others is not a good strategy for me most of the time.

I know my feelings are valid. I want a companion in my joy and in my sorrow and I am willing to be that to others. Someone sharing my sorrow makes it feel not so big and someone sharing my joy makes it seem bigger.

So I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Are yous aying that I shouldn't need validation because I should simply intellectualize my feelings and relegate them to a place of irrelevance, or that I should continue to open up to people whether it's working for me or not, or am I missing your point entirely?

My original challenge was to Malkavia's question, where it was to challenge the NEED for validation, not from your personalised perspective of why you regret opening up to people. If anything, it had nothing to do with your personalised perspective.

Generally speaking, everyone's emotions are valid, where they have a right to them. But to rely on someone else to make us more or equal to ourselves, is too much power to give another who has his/her own challenges and self to consider.

It's when we have expectations of others, that we get disappointed. But are those expectations reasonable from their perspective since they too, are separate individuals?

Once again, throwing out more thoughts for consideration.