[ENFP] ENFJ and ENFP Females: What do you Hate/Like about them?

[Amargith]

Guys, let's not get into a bitchfight, shall we?

Milky: ever thought that different perspectives give that impression? Do a bit of research on this forum, and you'll find more than people venting in a thread things. Just becoz people need to vent about something that irks them about someone else, doesn't mean that per definition that someone else is in fact fake, or is deliberately being fake. It actually means they have a different way of being, one you're not even trying to understand. That makes you intolerant or closeminded, which imo is just as bad. I too have had issues with Fe-users *seeming* fake, but once you understand what their motivation is...(and I thank Domino for showing me ), you actually understand how real they are.


As for the Fe-users: don't let this person bait you into making ad hominem attacks. I think milky might even enjoy getting you banned. For that matter, ganging up on someone, even when they deserve it is...well,ime, rarely productive. Usually those that vent like this about others are just doing that...venting. Others get stuck in that frustration and start taking it for a fact, as they don't understand how the thing that annoys them could actually be a good thing. Doesn't make it alright..but it sorta makes it understandable, though I do not disagree that one should strive to grow past that. Give it time though

They make the most entertaining basement captives by far.

A.O you crack me up sometimes

 

[Hate]

Word, Satine... I know you're lookin' out.

To be honest, I was just trying to be funny. I take that persons statements in at a comedic level, they don't bother me.

btw, lol at bitchfight.

 

[CzeCze]

I do dislike however how they often seem unaffected by stuff that stresses me out. I guess it's jealously on my part, but when the world is going to hell in a hand basket and I'm desparately trying to figure out how we're going to piece it together they're just sitting there laid back like, "What, man? Chill out already, it'll all be ok."

And I'm just like, "But don't you SEE? WHY CAN'T YOU SEE JUST HOW BAD THINGS ARE?!?!?"

As I said, this only applies the ones I know but I think I'm just jealous of how collected you can be when the shit goes down

LOL. I think this could be true. In some ways I am very easy going so I avoid most real life tension or drama with the usual suspects. However, when something DOES bother me, it drills into my brain and spirals out of control. Maybe that's a negative of Ne and Fi doing the bad downward spiral. I know "objectively" it may or may not be a big deal but it will piss me off like CRAZY. It's like 'roid rage or something. Extremes only.

 

[skylights]

i have a quirky little comment...

one thing that both bothered me and settled me was the realization of how an ENFJ i know who seemed ULTRA confident to me for a very long time is not, very often, confident at the core. i still can't tell, sometimes.

this is a curiosity to me. between this and the raging world-without-Fe thread it appears not that ENFJs are fake, but simply very good at projecting an image that may not reveal the whole of what is inside. this is true of ENFP somewhat too but in a different way. ENFP hides the full extent of its breadth... while ENFJ seems to hide the full extent of its depth... though i do not see either case as being fake, because no one ever reveals themselves fully.

anyway, my question for ENFJs is(are) how do you feel about your external image in relation to your internal image? do you want to hide the really internal stuff from others, or are my thoughts about this off? if so, then why?

 

[CzeCze]

Okay so here goes

ENFJ-positive: organized, leader, on time, good grades, nice, warm, enthusiastic, good at handling money

negative:fake,manipulative, backstabbing, hypocritical, controlling, passive aggressive, emotionally manipulative, emotionally manipulative, closed minded, judgmental, scared of change, likes to tell people how to run their lives(bossy), superficial

ENFP: positive: accepting, open minded, warm, fun, enthusiastic, creative, friendly, leader, changelings
negative: flakes, emotionally manipulative, passive aggressive, late, childish, annoying, disorganized, passive aggressive at times, unknowingly starts problems, irresponsible, messy, dirty, forgetful

But I still think ENFJ's are extremely fake.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it also depends on how old you are. Types in their teens-early 20s can almost be like caricatures, or extreme (for good or bad) of their dominant cognitive function or top 2 functions. Ever see ENTP kidlings with no Fe? HOLY SHITE! SCARY! :horor: lol Lots of ENXP kids look like they're all ADHD spazz balls with better-than-most vocabularies.

ENFJ can fit into the caricature of 'the baddest bitch' or 'queen bee of the roller derby'.

1) 'Fe' is often interpreted, correctly or not, as 'fake'.
2) Fe can give you powerful social mojo which you can use for good or evil. That's often the biggest criticism of ENFJs that you see on this forum - too much power socially.

I have seen some really good examples of 'worst' and 'best' for Fe doms/auxs. The best examples you kinda gaze at them in awe because of their sheer 'charisma' (no joke, I did this to a woman in college, just kinda gaze, mouth half-open at her, she totally knew the effect she could have on me, too!). You don't hate on them b/c the admiration is well-deserved. Or you at least get out of their way b/c you know better and respect their temper/Fe impact. My roommate in NYC was an awesome example of Fe, I really admired her. She was old enough to be my aunt. Fe can truly be charismatic.

It can also be pretty ugly. Troublemakers, drama-queens, women who are described as "stank"(true story), their Fe is laced thoroughly with cattiness and they seem shady as hell, or just unlikeable. All you know is they think highly of themselves and want you to know it.

The difference I've seen between the drama queens and the truly well-regarded Fe doms/auxs - the troublemakers have almost a desperate need for attention/recognition that twists up the vibe and use of their Fe (I have also seen this in a few young ENTP females whose Fe I just read as fake as hell). The others - positive recognition just comes to them naturally b/c of their swagger so they are at ease.

Milky Way, I'm guessing you are in highschool or latest college aged so your assessment of negative Fe is accurate for you. I would say though that some of the ENFPs you like may actually be Fe doms/auxs and not ENFPs. There are 'good' Fe users even at young ages.

 

[Sparrow]

But I still think ENFJ's are extremely fake.

Sorry If I was being feisty but that comment just got to me, thought it was pretty rude. :steam:

Its all good in the hood. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if...okay Im shutting up now.

MEOW <--

 

[Sparrow]

anyway, my question for ENFJs is(are) how do you feel about your external image in relation to your internal image? do you want to hide the really internal stuff from others, or are my thoughts about this off? if so, then why?

I dont purposely try to hide the really internal stuff from others, Im open to sharing if I feel the other person really cares to listen...otherwise I dont want to bother. I think ENFJs are also known to focus more on other people and not themselves.

 

[Glycerine]

Guys, let's not get into a bitchfight, shall we?

Milky: ever thought that different perspectives give that impression? Do a bit of research on this forum, and you'll find more than people venting in a thread things. Just becoz people need to vent about something that irks them about someone else, doesn't mean that per definition that someone else is in fact fake, or is deliberately being fake. It actually means they have a different way of being, one you're not even trying to understand. That makes you intolerant or closeminded, which imo is just as bad. I too have had issues with Fe-users *seeming* fake, but once you understand what their motivation is...(and I thank Domino for showing me ), you actually understand how real they are.

As for the Fe-users: don't let this person bait you into making ad hominem attacks. I think milky might even enjoy getting you banned. For that matter, ganging up on someone, even when they deserve it is...well,ime, rarely productive. Usually those that vent like this about others are just doing that...venting. Others get stuck in that frustration and start taking it for a fact, as they don't understand how the thing that annoys them could actually be a good thing. Doesn't make it alright..but it sorta makes it understandable, though I do not disagree that one should strive to grow past that. Give it time though




A.O you crack me up sometimes

Sorry, I know that it doesn't give me an excuse but I absolutely cannot not stand when people state their experiences as fact. I probably would have done the same thing if she was bashing ENFPs. :steam: Ftr, I think she would banned long before I would but I will definitely stop playing into her childish games. You are totally right and I was in the wrong.

I dont purposely try to hide the really internal stuff from others, Im open to sharing if I feel the other person really cares to listen...otherwise I dont want to bother. I think ENFJs are also known to focus more on other people and not themselves.

yeah, same here. I think I can be as quirky as ENFPs but I don't want to scare people off. As a result, I play at the person's level.

 

[Sparrow]

ENFJ can fit into the caricature of 'the baddest bitch' or 'queen bee of the roller derby'.

oops! You know what's funny, I actually thought about joining the rat city racers roller derby team....but I bruise to easily lol!

 

[Sparrow]

Sorry, I know that it doesn't give me an excuse but I absolutely cannot not stand when people state their experiences as fact. I probably would have done the same thing if she was bashing ENFPs. :steam: Ftr, I think she would banned long before I would but I will definitely stop playing into her childish games. You are totally right and I was in the wrong.

yeah, same here. I think I can be as quirky as ENFPs but I don't want to scare people off. As a result, I play at the person's level.

Cross the line and feel the wrath of an enfj...if your unlucky enough muahahahaaa, j/k . As for the quote above, I totally agree with you we can get really serious and intense about things we hold dear to us, we don't want scare anyone so we vibe with them on their level. Makes sense.

 

[Afkan]

I've heard somewhere that males, in general, report the highest satisfaction with an ENFP or ENFJ partner than with any other type

You sure you heard this somewhere? Or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[mmhmm]

i know an enfj who'll do anything...
short of murder for what she loves...

it's intimidating, scary, and awesome to watch.
sometimes it looks like one big intricate lie--her life
sometime it looks like wow, you really know how to live

it's frustrating, consuming, addictive to be a part of...

 

[Domino]

i have a quirky little comment...

one thing that both bothered me and settled me was the realization of how an ENFJ i know who seemed ULTRA confident to me for a very long time is not, very often, confident at the core. i still can't tell, sometimes.

this is a curiosity to me. between this and the raging world-without-Fe thread it appears not that ENFJs are fake, but simply very good at projecting an image that may not reveal the whole of what is inside. this is true of ENFP somewhat too but in a different way. ENFP hides the full extent of its breadth... while ENFJ seems to hide the full extent of its depth... though i do not see either case as being fake, because no one ever reveals themselves fully.

I think I have always perceived ALL Fe users as being potential salesmen. See the comic image and salesmanship of Steve Martin and Robin Williams in the NFJ camp, for example. Neither of these men are extroverts by nature but they can get up in front of crowds and have the confidence to make everyone laugh. I see this tendency in ESTPs, ISTPs, ESFJs, and ISFJs, as well as us E and INFJs, and certainly ENTPs. Much less in the INTP camp, but it does exist - I've seen several examples in real life.

Being mistaken for a con artist might mean nothing more than whomever is observing you is making such assumptions in a cynical manner and is seeing what they want to see because they don't trust people. If you actually ARE a con artist, they'll never know what hit them. If you aren't, you'll be spending a lot of time explaining or even apologizing for the bad behavior of other Fe users.

Using charm on someone doesn't make you fake. It should tell the other person that they're worth the trouble of a little cavalier treatment and should enjoy every minute of it because the rest of the world is hard and ugly and disrespectful.

anyway, my question for ENFJs is(are) how do you feel about your external image in relation to your internal image? do you want to hide the really internal stuff from others, or are my thoughts about this off? if so, then why?

I am every bit as defensive of myself as my INFJ father. The very idea of being "exposed" to others' scrutiny is unthinkable. I offer a great deal of myself to people and every bit of it is genuine, but to push past that without my permission will cause a lock-down situation in a heartbeat. My secrets are my own. I'll tell you if I feel I can stand the strain of such painful exposure, but there are other things deep within me that I believe will go with me to my grave. Not because I distrust my closest friends, but because I cannot get that knowledge BACK once it is spoken. I am quite easy to obliterate. I need the armor for a reason.

 

[Glycerine]

I am every bit as defensive of myself as my INFJ father. The very idea of being "exposed" to others' scrutiny is unthinkable. I offer a great deal of myself to people and every bit of it is genuine, but to push past that without my permission will cause a lock-down situation in a heartbeat. My secrets are my own. I'll tell you if I feel I can stand the strain of such painful exposure, but there are other things deep within me that I believe will go with me to my grave. Not because I distrust my closest friends, but because I cannot get that knowledge BACK once it is spoken. I am quite easy to obliterate. I need the armor for a reason.

Yikes, my ESFJ dad tells people he JUST met MY life history and MY accomplishments. It's quite interesting to note the stark difference between my dad and I. I love you dad but thanks....for telling random people what I consider "private".

 

[Domino]

Yikes, my ESFJ dad tells people he JUST met MY life history and MY accomplishments. It's quite interesting to note the stark difference between my dad and I. I love you dad but thanks....for telling random people what I consider "private".

There's a Dilbert cartoon of a mother telling visiting guests about her son's "incident" at the monkey house at the zoo when he was little. I had no idea this was you. lol

 

[Glycerine]

There's a Dilbert cartoon of a mother telling visiting guests about her son's "incident" at the monkey house at the zoo when he was little. I had no idea this was you. lol

hahahaha, this reminds me of an "incident" that happened with my dad but in the reverse situation. One night at the dinner table my dad was commenting on how a lot of blond women worked for him and was joking about how they were his secret "girlfriends". So the next day, one of his closest work friends (a blond female ) dropped by (it was the VERY first time I met her... a kickass ISTJ). She said "hi" to me and I just blurted out, "Are you one of my dad's blonds?" He was absolutely mortified..... oops. His friend thought it was hilarious though and it was a joke in the office for quite awhile. DAMN Ni.

 

[skylights]

hahahaha, this reminds me of an "incident" that happened with my dad but in the reverse situation. One night at the dinner table my dad was commenting on how a lot of blond women worked for him and was joking about how they were his secret "girlfriends". So the next day, one of his closest work friends (a blond female ) dropped by (it was the VERY first time I met her... a kickass ISTJ). She said "hi" to me and I just blurted out, "Are you one of my dad's blonds?" He was absolutely mortified..... oops. His friend thought it was hilarious though and it was a joke in the office for quite awhile. DAMN Ni.

I am every bit as defensive of myself as my INFJ father. The very idea of being "exposed" to others' scrutiny is unthinkable. I offer a great deal of myself to people and every bit of it is genuine, but to push past that without my permission will cause a lock-down situation in a heartbeat. My secrets are my own. I'll tell you if I feel I can stand the strain of such painful exposure, but there are other things deep within me that I believe will go with me to my grave. Not because I distrust my closest friends, but because I cannot get that knowledge BACK once it is spoken. I am quite easy to obliterate. I need the armor for a reason.

i have spent the last 10 seconds subconsciously trying to figure out how to ask you what kinds of things are possibly so destructive as to be so threatening, without actually asking you what your secrets are

i dunno, i have some embarrassing/disappointing moments that i don't really share, but i think if i ever met someone who had a similar moment, i would be inclined to share. or even somewhere like PostSecret, or FML. i'm almost inclined to say my worst moments here. to me there is something cathartic about sharing, like it frees me to just... not hide it. to pull it out, look at it, laugh at it or regret at it. and to openly analyze it for what it is and no more than that. most things that are so "bad" feeling... well they're not kind, or admirable, but logically they are quite human, and others have done them too. locking in is burdensome; freeing is... well, freeing.

but these things may well have nothing at all to do with function order.

 

[DaMilkyWay<3]

Sparrow -It's not rude for me to say what I think. It might not apply to you but it does apply to many ENFJ's I have had to interact with. I don't have to agree with you. People had a problem with my original comment and I wrote a response in order to make it more fair. But that doesn't mean that I have to completely change my original stance. Fe comes across as fake as stated by someone earlier. It doesn't mean that what I am saying is true for all but it true for the ones I have the unfortunate luck of having to deal with.

 

[Sparrow]

It can be rude to say what you think (with out proper execution)...what if I said "all the <<insert race here>> are stinky and stupid". Thats how your comment came across, and that irked me. See where Im coming from? Its all good, think whatever you want and do whatever you want. Carry on . Im over it. Alll we are sayyyyyin...is give peace a chance. lol.

 

[Goosebump]

I have an ENFP and I love her. She's hella fun and can be really whimsical. She loves talking about her wishes, books that she read, and her current thoughts. I admire her kindness as she sincerely adores children and many times told me she wants to work in a nursing home, to brighten up the elders and take care of them. She told me dream of getting a horse and running in the rain, which I thought was quite interesting comparing to other people I know.

She can be really stubborn however, and at times kinda rude to my ISFJ friend. :/