[ESTP] The Official Almost Nobody Hates An xSTP Thread

[Giggly]

What you say is funny because the first time I took MBTI test, I got EsTP. But ESTP are describe as constant go-getter, wich is not really me.
At the same time, constant action is what what make me the most feel alive... But there's tons of peoples who try to control me (including my parents) and that disperses my energy a lot. In other case, it would probably be different.

I need to move to feel alive... and to taste things and touch things and experience things... but yeah, I'm not really much of a go getter

fortunatly, nobody really tries to control me, I'm just not fully convinced that I'm particularly suited for modern society in a way

I see the similarities between ESTJ and ESTP but ESTJ agrees with a lot of society conventions (moreso than ESTP) and that makes ESTJ question the conventions less and just do it. I think you're more likely to see an ESTP rebel than an ESTJ rebel.

Actually, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. That just sounded really good. lol

Hey! I am noticing more and more SPs who sometimes enjoy traditions. It's nice to see.

I do find it interesting that ESTPs seem to be less hated than ESFPs.

Me too. Hmmm....

There's no straight answer since ISFjs have Fi and Se, while ISFp has Fe and Si.. and Fi/Fe, Si/Se are defined slightly different (same could be said for other functions). One thing tho is there is a lot more take-charge/less chill nature with Se types (ISFj, ISTj), and a more laid back nature/comfort oriented nature with Si (ISFp, ISTp). Nobody knows how to relax (and encourage others to) like an ISTP or ISFP -even when they're doing something. Lots of awareness for physical states, stuff like that.

Another thing is just looking at duals and semi duals. ISxp's think ENxps are awesome in the same way INxp thinks ESxp is. ISxj has ENxj as duals/semi-duals.

So confusing...lol

 

[miss fortune]

I see the similarities between ESTJ and ESTP but ESTJ agrees with a lot of society conventions (moreso than ESTP) and that makes ESTJ question the conventions less and just do it. I think you're more likely to see an ESTP rebel than an ESTJ rebel.

Actually, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. That just sounded really good. lol

Hey! I am noticing more and more SPs who sometimes enjoy traditions. It's nice to see.

Funny... my best friend is an ESTJ and we have quite a few things in common (same sort of family relations, same sort of pragmatism on things and the same morbid sense of humor) but she's definitley more driven than I am and is a lot better at playing by society's rules than I am

And then we have other ESTPs on the site who always want the best of everything and aspire to get that.

Somehow I occasionally wonder if I'm the disfunctional model who needs shipped back to the shop because I have simple tastes, tend to be happy with what I have, as long as those simple tastes are satisfied (good sex? nice bed? somewhere to play outside? tasty food? ability to get from point A to point B? I'm happy! )... If The Man (note the caps!) would just leave me alone I'd be as happy as a pig in the mud! I just feel a bit cramped by the demands of society, the legal system and the way that everything is so structured and I feel more NATURAL fighting it than playing with it

Not to say that I don't have my own sense of values (loyalty, freedom, fun...) that I stick to, I just feel like things are overstructured in a way anymore and I want to run away

 

[Poki]

What?. Socionics is mainly different on introverts not extroverts. The reason being Socionics is much more in depth about character than the behavior of a person. MBTI focuses on behaviour thus it is much more easy to figure out your type through the tests. Socionics has a different idea of the functions. The primary is more of a "who you are" function and creative is a "what you do" function. For example the ISTP ego function is Si and strong function Te. Te in socionics is about utilizing your environment through maximum efficiency, performing and collecting on the fly, like Magiver. In MBTI Te is about organizing stored data and this can also be looked at utilizing resources through maximum efficiency!. This is where the problem lies between the two, both have different perspectives on the definitions.

In socionics Te is more related to Se and living in the moment. Te in MBTI is more related to Si and past concrete detail.

You hit it dead on with MBTI being about behaviour and Socionics about character which means it has focus...the same thing can mean something else simply because the path is different. The end goal of character or behaviour defines the path and everything along the path. It shows what the people who developed MBTI or socionics actually sees, what they care about, what matters to them. Behaviour only partially matters to me so I only pull so much out of MBTI. People on here "look" different not concretely but Se wise. They give off a different impression and some of it is socionics, some of it is MBTI dfferences, some of it is enneagram type stackings. All these different things combined makes up what I see. Other people are blind to it because they dismiss whats wrong...they dismiss half the picture. This is what stand out the most in regard to the Sx/Sp stacking. But this doesnt seem to follow the standard MBTI behaviour definition. All these things arent tools to me, but methods to use to understand different things that I noticed the but couldnt seperate it on my own into all these different systems because in my head its all one big system that is a combination of all of these.

I have no enemies...it doesnt mean people dont like me...but I have no enemies. I have never created a category called enemies nor filled it with people.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

Best to be grateful for good people of any type! And yeah, I think good ESTPs and ESFPs are fun and helpful to have around! Mind you, I do think ESFPs have an exceptional amount of potential to be annoying. But there are worse things than "annoying".

ESFPs, ESFJs and ESTJs seem to get the worst rap on this forum, I'd say.

I've known a couple super unhealthy esfps.

I believe that biases my viewpoint. I haven't met a healthy ESFP to my knowledge YET.

 

[sLiPpY]

hmm...wonder if the differences you're noticing whatever, can be explored by comparing ennegram

i.e. I'm a 9w8 ISTP, and have been able to account for differences in the STP spectrum by comparing ennegram with others.

My own taste in life are very simple. Don't want a lot. But want for what I do have to be as nice as it can be. Where I know other ISTP's who are more geared toward material accumulation. With themselves it's with regard to their toys and maintenance of those toys, or providing for a family vs. being truly materialistic. In some ways it's almost a lament, even though they're very good at providing and accumulating.

 

[Moiety]

We xSTPs are happy, artistic, inventive, and resourceful people with a natural tenacity to overcome significant obstacles with nerves of steel, while still adhering to our own understanding of the greater good.

Don't try to restrict our freedom, that's one issue with us.

But that is a small price to pay for all the good we do.

The bringers of joy, the life of the party, the "idea person" that saves the day when all else have given up. These are roles we play well, and are very hard to hate.

And if anyone does hate us, then guess what?

"Sour grapes much, BeeYatch?"

Hail to the xSTPs!!!

The reason why the day needs to be saved is often because some STP is robbing some poor old lady or hitting some kid for his lunch money.

I'm mostly kidding, but you make STPs sound like heroes compared to the pussies that are other types.

 

[miss fortune]

hmm...wonder if the differences you're noticing whatever, can be explored by comparing ennegram

i.e. I'm a 9w8 ISTP, and have been able to account for differences in the STP spectrum by comparing ennegram with others.

My own taste in life are very simple. Don't want a lot. But want for what I do have to be as nice as it can be. Where I know other ISTP's who are more geared toward material accumulation. With themselves it's with regard to their toys and maintenance of those toys, or providing for a family vs. being truly materialistic. In some ways it's almost a lament, even though they're very good at providing and accumulating.

yeah, I'm starting to wonder if I'm aging from a 7w8 to an 9w8 instead, because the older and more settled I get, the more content with what I have I become, and the less I want to party

 

[Speed Gavroche]

My own taste in life are very simple. Don't want a lot. .

Actual proof that I'm not a 9!

I'm completely a "I want everything" person.

 

[Aleksei]

What?. Socionics is mainly different on introverts not extroverts. The reason being Socionics is much more in depth about character than the behavior of a person. MBTI focuses on behaviour thus it is much more easy to figure out your type through the tests. Socionics has a different idea of the functions. The primary is more of a "who you are" function and creative is a "what you do" function. For example the ISTP ego function is Si and strong function Te. Te in socionics is about utilizing your environment through maximum efficiency, performing and collecting on the fly, like Magiver. In MBTI Te is about organizing stored data and this can also be looked at utilizing resources through maximum efficiency!. This is where the problem lies between the two, both have different perspectives on the definitions.

Exactly -- They define everything in a different way, therefore the types themselves are different. I'm not making this shit up by the way, a lot of types are unlikely to match for Socionics and MBTI. Exhibit A:

ESTP is the most mismatched type between systems. ESTPs are actually more likely to score ENFp or ENFj, than actually score ESTp.

 

[Poki]

Exactly -- They define everything in a different way, therefore the types themselves are different. I'm not making this shit up by the way, a lot of types are unlikely to match for Socionics and MBTI. Exhibit A:

ESTP is the most mismatched type between systems. ESTPs are actually more likely to score ENFp or ENFj, than actually score ESTp.

My ENFJ wife is a mentor to everyone, but she is going back to school to be a phsycologist. The 2 go hand in hand really. The ENFPs I know IRL more learn phsycology things from life and would go to school to learn things that they can mentor about. Coincidence? Its funny how perception can play out.

 

[KDude]

ESTP is the most mismatched type between systems. ESTPs are actually more likely to score ENFp or ENFj, than actually score ESTp.

Yeah, there are all kind of mismatches for ESTp (ESFp, ESTjs, ENTjs, INTjs as well). The simple correlation is (direct) power. Socionics associates Se with that (although it's expressed differently than that with other types, like a real ESFp or ISFj).

Types that value Se are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se . There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of introverted sensing ()-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world".

Unlike Si , which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

 

[Aleksei]

Indeed. Socionics Se and Si are distinctly un-concrete, unlike their MBTI counterparts.

 

[SilkRoad]

I've known a couple super unhealthy esfps.

I believe that biases my viewpoint. I haven't met a healthy ESFP to my knowledge YET.

I have certainly known quite a few - or, some ESFPs and others in their "group" who just behave like ESFPs to fit in - who are "OMG PARTY PARTY PARTY DRINK DRINK DRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" pretty much all the time. Which is particularly annoying when you're not even 17 any more, but when you're over 30 and these people are mostly between 25 and 35.

I think at that age it might be a tad "unhealthy" if it's non-stop and if having a non-superficial conversation with them is literally and utterly impossible.

There have been very few on this website but like the ESTPs they seem pretty cool, chilled and down to earth. I'm always aware though that the picture you get of people online is incomplete (and that certainly applies to any type!!)

 

[jixmixfix]

In socionics Te is more related to Se and living in the moment. Te in MBTI is more related to Si and past concrete detail.
.

Exactly, So I mean which one is really wrong? The thing is I really do understand what socionics means by their Te and Si definiton it makes sense. If you look at the way an ISTP operates is very "counter reactive" this to me sounds like "Si" (take in information and then act) MBTI has no mention to this it only says Ti and Se, which still makes sense but looking at it from another prespective. I really like your idea of using the knowledge towards your benifit and not really seing either one (MBTI or socionics) as right or wrong, that is very much how I look at it as well. I think most intuitives on this site take the theory too seriously, and thus get into their own self-indulgent blind little world.

 

[KDude]

i kinda think i may be istp in socionics, but not sure. i don't have strong "Fe" even in the socionics sense (maybe "passively" i do.. ).

anyhow, the Si thing seems more like me. i can see that in how most of the istps talk around here too.

 

[Poki]

Exactly, So I mean which one is really wrong? The thing is I really do understand what socionics means by their Te and Si definiton it makes sense. If you look at the way an ISTP operates is very "counter reactive" this to me sounds like "Si" (take in information and then act) MBTI has no mention to this it only says Ti and Se, which still makes sense but looking at it from another prespective. I really like your idea of using the knowledge towards your benifit and not really seing either one (MBTI or socionics) as right or wrong, that is very much how I look at it as well. I think most intuitives on this site take the theory too seriously, and thus get into their own self-indulgent blind little world.

I agree with your definition of "take in information and then act" This is very chart the course style to me. My son is extremely "chart the course". He is very idea driven based on concrete things. It drives me nuts at times because he is a planner and I am not. I dont want to commit to things and he will keep thinking of things to do wanting to chart a course of action.

But I can see how that fits in with Se Ti but its all about semantics and wording. Experiencing vs chart the course. After 13 years I suprise my wife because she doesnt understand the conflict with my introversion. How I operate as an introvert and an experiencer when it comes to "social" things. The conflict arises in that I am not one who likes to sit around and talk...I want to be doing something AND we can talk. But just focusing on talking to others I cannot handle...I need distraction...I need the focus to not be on "socializing".

The thing I notice with Ns is that they are so abstract that what they say can be taken several different ways. I dont think that you are N in any way, but lets take "take in information and then act". That can apply to experiencer, chart the course, etc. Each person can take it their own way. It is abstract. To make it concrete you need to apply it to a situation using detail, then we can figure out if your "take in information and then act" matches my "take in information and then act". Its way off topic, but my wife and another woman were talking about dishes not getting cleaned. They were both in agreeance...knocking 2 people...until it came out that one person was talking about dishes sitting in the sink for a couple days and the other was dishes sitting around the house. But the "complaining" went on for a while in aggreance until things became "concrete" then one person was like well I can handle them being in the sink.

 

[KDude]

I might be missing the train of thought, but Si in socionics has nothing to do with charting the course. The distinctions aren't made on that level.

Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.

In contrast to extroverted sensing, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.

 

[Poki]

I might be missing the train of thought, but Si in socionics has nothing to do with charting the course. The distinctions aren't made on that level.

Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.

In contrast to extroverted sensing, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.

Yes...chart the course is MBTI wording and the words that jixmix chose to categorize heavily crossed between chart the course and experiencer. If that is his understanding then I can easily see how it can create a split between socionics ISTP and MBTI ISTP/ISTJ. His understanding can go either way in its abstract form.

What you defined above as Si matches better with experiencer as opposed to chart the course. To give concrete detail as an example...I started P90X and as I continue I back down from the "schedule" and cater it to myself. Not my goals...but to keep me from giving up out of boredom and repetition. I picked the ones I like...currently exercise hard 3 days a week...decided I wanted to do a week or 2 of heavy lifting right now then gonna jump back into the P90X routine afterwards.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I don't know of any ESTP's... but I've got two ISTP roommates. One of 'em is one of my favorite people in the woooorld. He's super handy around the house. He's smart and quick witted. He's got a great sense of humor and knows how to make me laugh. He's silly. And since we're both SP's, we can set off on some fun adventures and not over tire the other with too much chit chattin' chattery, since we're both introverted types that can be worn out by that. I'd actually like to find me an ISTP boooooyfreeeeen.

 

[jixmixfix]

I don't know of any ESTP's... but I've got two ISTP roommates. One of 'em is one of my favorite people in the woooorld. He's super handy around the house. He's smart and quick witted. He's got a great sense of humor and knows how to make me laugh. He's silly. And since we're both SP's, we can set off on some fun adventures and not over tire the other with too much chit chattin' chattery, since we're both introverted types that can be worn out by that. I'd actually like to find me an ISTP boooooyfreeeeen.

you just did, go get em tiger