Is depression a benefit in disguise?

[Synapse]

Ridiculous and NO!

 

[A window to the soul]

What are your feelings about functioning people being put on 'low dose' antidepressants?

Unnecessary IMHO. I agree with sLiPpY that the focus should be on teaching people. I also believe in the power of prayer.

Ridiculous and NO!

Oops, sorries <3 I lost focus and went off topic ...

 

[Synapse]

^

I meant for the OP when I read the title Is depression a benefit in disguise?

You are right, there is prozac in the water and much worse things too. I disagree with the OP's thoughts.

 

[A window to the soul]

^

I meant for the OP when I read the title Is depression a benefit in disguise?

You are right, there is prozac in the water and much worse things too. I disagree with the OP's thoughts.

okay, no problem. BTW Synapse, I'm with you on this. I don't think there's any benefit to depression.

 

[cascadeco]

Feeling blue because you are experiencing problems of one kind or another isn't depression, it's just life. It doesn't become a mood disorder unless it is disproportionate to circumstances.

I think culturally we've gotten to a point where many have 'forgotten' or haven't even been taught that low-level depression/sadness/dissatisfaction is a part of life (as you say), and might even last for a number of months until the situation is resolved or the person comes to terms with things. I think there is less of an acceptance/awareness these days that it's o.k. - even normal - to be down and out at times. Many might jump straight to the meds. I believe this contributes to inflated %'s of depressed people as cited in the OP.

Not sure about the whole adaptive piece of this, but I do think navigating through low-level depression can foster better self-awareness and potentially create more resilience and strength for future situations. And, as others have mentioned, depression is a powerful indicator that something or other is off-kilter in your life.

Of course you then have depression caused by chemical imbalances or the like, which would be a different story I suppose - but that would be a pretty small % of individuals... certainly not the 30-50% (although personally I think/believe that society as it is now, and as the majority try to adhere to, is going to exacerbate depression..I think many aspects of it are out of balance)

 

[Synarch]

Depression is a radical expression of honesty. How can we be happy in this blood-soaked abattoir?

 

[A window to the soul]

Depression is a radical expression of honesty. How can we be happy in this blood-soaked abattoir?

It's all in ones mind. Try focusing on simple things and not the stressors.

 

[Synarch]

Everything is one's mind in some form. Some people see reality by overlooking the endless cycle of suffering and trauma. Some people can't see anything but the suffering and trauma.

 

[Phantonym]

It's all in ones mind. Try focusing on simple things and not the stressors.

Ha, yeah, easier said than done.

 

[Halla74]

Ever since I've known my friend, Becky, she has taken a half dose of antidepressants to get her through her days. For 14 years or so now she has never pursued counseling or tried seriously to change her hectic life in any real way, even though she did try quitting her antidepressants at one point, which didn't last very long. I have watched her struggle and suffer in a typical American mother way; stressed out from work, over-indulging her children, unhappy in her marriage, rewarding herself with unhealthy behaviors; always popping her antidepressant to get her through.

Sounds like a modern woman dealing with a multitude of common complexities the wrong way.

She isn't the only friend I have who takes a daily pill to take the edge off. It is sad fact that most of the women I have hung out with in the past decade, and called friend, have predominantly either been on antidepressants, or been prescribed them by physicians or therapists.

Three options to change your patterns of socialization:

(1) MOVE away from MONTANA!
(2) Choose a hobby to keep you away from crazies
(3) Become a hermit

My friend is now abusing alcohol at a faster rate than she did previously, and she has taken on other abusive coping mechanisms, such as overeating. She has verbalized a lot lately about "feeling old" and seems a bit ragged. I can't help but wonder if she had just made some necessary life changes or considered some new ways of being in her world and in her family years ago, and avoided a pharmacological approach out of her fear of "depression" or to help with living her anxious life, she would be far healthier today and looking into her midlife with excitement, not apprehension and ill health.

If she had grown some courage, stayed in good physical condition, and gotten a grip that despite the crosses in life she has to bear, she has it a whole lot better than a woman her age in the third world, she'd be having a wonderful life. I know so damn happy women between the ages of 30-70, and all of them are assertive, are in shape, and have a life outlook that is aware of big-picture circustances of the human experience.

I don't have alot of pity for your friend(s) at this point, and I'm not saying that to be mean. There are just as amny fat, drunk, dissatisfied men with a bad attitude strung across this nation, popping SSRIs, and wondering when things will get better. Life gets better when the person living it accepts responsibility for their own happiness and pursues it in an honorable manner. That is the only way to make it over the long haul, from what I have witnessed.

I am not saying depression should never be treated. But by assuming it is a disease that needs to be cured, and by turning to pills to do so, we are ensuring the viscious cycle be perpetuated.

Maybe you are saying what I think, but differently. I think "anti-depressants" are OVER-PRESCRIBED, and I think that the people who REALLY NEED THEM are a small minority of these who REGULARLY TAKE THEM ON AN ONGOING BASIS.

Think about it. It's the perfect psychological storm. SSRIs "fix" (aka "mask the symptoms of") a myriad of common ailments, from premature ejaculation, to anxiety, depression, OCD, ADHD, etc, you name it, and some variant of SSRISNRI/Combo is out there in some dosage to treat it.

They are mistakenly thought of as a PANACEA by many physicians.

WHY?

(1) They are inexpensive
(2) They have no "street value" like valium/xanax/clonipin/etc.
(3) They claims to be "non-addictive" but I dare any doctor who touts that shit to take SSRIs for six months straight and then stop them cold turkey. Non addictive? MY ASS. People go into fits of neurotic symptoms and other forms of mental/physical dysfunction when they suddenly cease use of SSRIs/SNRIs/etc.

But the reality is, they DON'T CURE ANYTHING. They just mask the symptoms of many common ailments. Some of these ailments have a genuine psychological origin, and some of them are merely the discomforts of people that have developed a dysfunctional life attitude via some sort of selfishness/immaturity/etc.

What do you think? What are your feelings about functioning people being put on 'low dose' antidepressants?

I think you get the gist of my thoughts above.

Some of the most difficult years of my marriage were when my wife tried Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, then Zoloft for almost 2 years in order to deal with debilitating anxiety attacks she began to experience in our early twenties. She became distant, somewhat selfish, and devoid of any real emotional range, and had no libido. She got herself off that shit, thank God, and tackled the anxiety on her own with counseling, exercise, yoga, etc. and now she has had things under control for quite some time. No SSRI/SNRI/etc. ever gave her any real relief. She was constantly "jumpy", she couldn't sleep, she was "in space" quite often, and she just felt plain "bad."

I think doctors who treat anyone with SSRIs/SNRIs/etc. who wouldn't otherwise be in an institution or at least demonstrated emotional torment should lose their license.

I think SSRIs, like welfare, should be administered with other things to get the person off of needing them, like counseling, or in the case of welfare, job training or military enlistment.

I have much pity for those who truly have serious issues to deal with for psychological (emotional trauma, etc.) or biochemical (genetic/inheritance) reasons, but none for lazy, selfish, whiners.

 

[A window to the soul]

Ha, yeah, easier said than done.

I never said it was easy. The most exciting, most memorable times of my life were the most difficult.
Attitude adjustment... Press on...

 

[Synarch]

You sound miserable.

 

[A window to the soul]

You sound miserable.

ok <3

Halla74, well said! <3

 

[prplchknz]

I tried years with coping methods and they didn't do shit for me. I just recently got on meds and its not my favorite but its better than it was.

 

[Himself]

If she had grown some courage, stayed in good physical condition, and gotten a grip that despite the crosses in life she has to bear, she has it a whole lot better than a woman her age in the third world, she'd be having a wonderful life. I know so damn happy women between the ages of 30-70, and all of them are assertive, are in shape, and have a life outlook that is aware of big-picture circustances of the human experience.

I don't have alot of pity for your friend(s) at this point, and I'm not saying that to be mean. There are just as amny fat, drunk, dissatisfied men with a bad attitude strung across this nation, popping SSRIs, and wondering when things will get better. Life gets better when the person living it accepts responsibility for their own happiness and pursues it in an honorable manner. That is the only way to make it over the long haul, from what I have witnessed.

I feel the need here, as someone who's been on Prozac for close to 18 months now and has made a solid recovery from major depression, to correct some misperceptions I've perceived here. I posted this a while back on INTPf, under the same name:

I think [there's] a misunderstanding by the general populace about what depression really is. Too often, it seems that the broader society conflates "depression" with "being upset or miserable, but to a greater degree than normal" -- some nebulous condition more akin to grief.

As someone who's suffered from depression, I think it's important to for people unfamiliar with the condition to recognize that it is -- at least in my own view -- a form of cognitive malfunction. There is an enormous qualitative difference between the nebulous "depression" the public has in mind, and depression itself. It surprises me that, given the prevalence of depression and related mood disorders in the United States, the most people know about depression comes from ads for antidepressants. There's a strikingly minimal amount of information presented in those ads, and most never go further to learn about it. (I know I didn't, until I became depressed.)

The fact that a sufferer of depression isn't starving in Africa doesn't make his impairment any less real or serious.

I'm happy to elaborate on this more, if needed.

(3) They claims to be "non-addictive" but I dare any doctor who touts that shit to take SSRIs for six months straight and then stop them cold turkey. Non addictive? MY ASS. People go into fits of neurotic symptoms and other forms of mental/physical dysfunction when they suddenly cease use of SSRIs/SNRIs/etc.

These aren't the result of any sort of physiological addiction to SSRIs or SNRIs. You're not supposed to go off them suddenly; your doctor will give you a schedule by which you gradually step down your dosage, depending on what you've been prescribed. Most of them, with the big exception of Prozac, have short half-lives, so if you go from using a medication to affect brain chemistry to suddenly stopping it, there's effectively a massive shift in brain chemistry composition in a very short time. This has been known to cause both physical discomfort (the infamous "brain zaps" among them) as well as possible psychological trauma.

 

[Halla74]

ok <3

Halla74, well said! <3

Thank you.

I tried years with coping methods and they didn't do shit for me. I just recently got on meds and its not my favorite but its better than it was.

Well then maybe you fit the bill of someone whose depressive symptoms would interfere with their ability to live a normal, fulfilling life, which is the most widely used/general guideline for determining if psychotropic medication of any kind is indeed warranted. I'm glad you have some relief.

I feel the need here, as someone who's been on Prozac for close to 18 months now and has made a solid recovery from major depression, to correct some misperceptions I've perceived here. I posted this a while back on INTPf, under the same name:

I'm quite familiar with this topic from the perspective of suffers of anxiety, OCD, depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. The people I know who take any meds for these things need them. I am saying that there are way too many people with little shit wrong in their lives trying to fix them with SSRIs/other psych meds, instead of just getting their shit together.

These aren't the result of any sort of physiological addiction to SSRIs or SNRIs. You're not supposed to go off them suddenly...

Yeah, you're not suppose to go off heroine suddenly either. Read below:

"Physical dependence refers to a state resulting from chronic use of a drug that has produced tolerance [1] and where negative physical symptoms[2] of withdrawal result from abrupt discontinuation or dosage reduction.[3] Physical dependence can develop from low-dose therapeutic use of certain medications as well as misuse of recreational drugs such as alcohol. The higher the dose used typically the worse the physical dependence and thus the worse the withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal symptoms can last days, weeks or months or occasionally longer and will vary according to the dose, the type of drug used and the individual person.[4]"

Physical dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cessation of chronic use of SSRIS, which are DRUGS, causes negative physical symptoms, because of the user's TOLERANCE to SSRIs synthetically regulating the level of serotonin in their bodies.

I'm sorry you had to deal with a major depression, I had one too a few years ago, it really sucked, but I took SSRIs for 2 days and then flushed the rest. IMHO, they are garbage. If they work for you, then cheers.

 

[sLiPpY]

I never said it was easy. The most exciting, most memorable times of my life were the most difficult.
Attitude adjustment... Press on...

 

[Southern Kross]

That's exactly what the article is proposing: Depression is "adaptive" and not an illness to be medicated away. There seems to be some confusion between introspection and true depression. Feeling blue because you are experiencing problems of one kind or another isn't depression, it's just life. It doesn't become a mood disorder unless it is disproportionate to circumstances. Anyone who has been depressed will tell you that the one thing it doesn't do is help you to think more clearly. How can this be an adaptive response to assist problem-solving?
I do agree that medication is over-prescribed and should be a last resort. And that by making an intolerable situation tolerable, it is an ineffective sticky plaster. I just don't buy the "adaptive" argument.

This is not how depression works. Long term, untreated depression actually damages the brain making further episodes both more likely and more devastating. Irrespective of a change in circumstances.

I agree with you here. I don't see how long term clinical depression can be a benefit.

I can see that feeling melancholy at times would make a person more self-perceptive. This is similar to brain functions that encourage caution and distrust rather than rashness and over-confidence. In a evolutionary sense, it is more useful to slow down and think things over, instead of rushing in and expecting things work out for the best.

However, clinical depression is quite different to feeling a bit down. People in this state may ruminate over their problems, but they lack the capacity to actually change them. That ruminating cripples a person's mind with negativity and their motivation and drive to take action is severely hampered. You might know what's wrong but you can't do anything about it - how can that help?

 

[Synarch]

The medical model of depression is unhelpful.

What is the proven chain of causation? Neurochemical states cause depression or depression causes neurochemical states?

 

[Eruca]

The OP's post seems highly related to Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration.

Positive Disintegration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dabrowski argues that depression is an important part of personality development as it is neccesary for the "disintegration" of old ways of being and the formation, and embracement, of new ways of being.

In other words, existential depression "why am I here?" "what is the purpose of life?" forces a disintegration of society's answers to these questions ("The purpose of life is to be successful however society dictates) and so formulates new answers to these questions that are more autonomous and true to the individual. "I am here to help people" "I am here to find truth".

Dabrowski then gives several levels of personality. The majority of people are still on the first level, which is characterised by strong adherence to soceity's norms and indulgence of instincts. Of interest is that people at this level will also have high levels of confidence as they rarely doubt themselves and their world view.

The higher levels of Dabrowski's theory, in contrast, are characterised by self-determinism, metacognition, autopsychotherapy and the persuit of what is thought of as "good" (justice, kindness, truth).

More on level IV - "In Level IV the person takes full control of his or her development. The involuntary spontaneous development of Level III is replaced by a deliberate, conscious and self-directed review of life from the multilevel perspective. This level marks the real emergence of the third factor, described by Dabrowski as an autonomous factor "of conscious choice (valuation) by which one affirms or rejects certain qualities in oneself and in one's environment" (Dabrowski 1972, p. 306). The person consciously reviews his or her existing belief system and tries to replace lower, automatic views and reactions with carefully thought out, examined and chosen ideals. These new values will increasingly be reflected in the person's behavior. Behavior becomes less reactive, less automatic and more deliberate as behavioral choices fall under the influence of the person's higher, chosen ideals.

Social mores are reviewed and re-accepted by a conscious internalization when the individual feels it is appropriate. Likewise, when the person feels it is proper, a social value is reviewed and may be rejected to be replaced by a self perceived higher alternative value. One's social orientation comes to reflect a deep responsibility based on both intellectual and emotional factors. At the highest levels, "individuals of this kind feel responsible for the realization of justice and for the protection of others against harm and injustice. Their feelings of responsibility extend almost to everything" (Dabrowski 1973, p. 97). This perspective results from seeing life in relation to one's hierarchy of values (the multilevel view) and the subsequent appreciation of the potential of how life could be, and ought to be, lived. One's disagreements with the (lower level) world are expressed compassionately in doing what one can to help achieve the "ought."

Of relevance in this theory to this discussion is that the majority of people will never move beyond level two. However, many people will experience disintegration from level one and two without ever being able to "move on" to level three. This could lead to continual cycles of depression in which the individual is "stuck".

"The transition from Level II to Level III involves a fundamental shift that requires a phenomenal amount of energy. This period is the crossroads of development: from here one must either progress or regress. The struggle between Dabrowski's three factors reflects this transitional crisis: "Do I follow my instincts (first factor), my teachings (second factor) or my heart (third factor)?" The developmental answer is to transform one's lower instincts (automatic reactions like anger) into positive motivation, to resist rote and social answers, and to listen to one's inner sense of what one ought to do."

Characteristics that show a high developmental potential (DP) include autonomy, idealism, perfectionism and high intelligence.

*Edited the hell out of* You can tell Im a big fan of this theory.