ISTP or ISTJ?

[arcticangel02]

Alright, so I have this friend who I was convinced was an ISTP for a while. This was all well and good until I came across an MBTI Facebook application. (yes!)

So, naturally, I invited everybody I know so that they'd do the test.

Now this friend of mine took the test and self-tested as ISTJ.

But anyway, hmm, okay, so it gets me wondering about my own analysis. This is hardly a professional test (only 72 questions) but when I took the test with what I know of her (and I've known her since we were both about 13), I also came up with a result of ISTJ.

But I suspect a lot of the questions they used to determine P/J was like "Is your desk tidy?", so I'm suspicious. And the descriptions they gave there I couldn't read into too deeply (I'm allergic to huge blocks of text ) but in my experience real-life accounts are more accurate anyway.

So I'm turning it over to you guys:

What are the visible differences between ISTJ and ISTP?

And here's what she's like:

- a tomboy - has never really been comfortable wearing dresses or make-up, but recently has tried it out a bit, though it doesn't really suit her. Her regular attire is sportsy, surfy type gear, usually practical and not too colourful.
- despite being a tomboy, she identifies herself as a romantic
- sensible, even-headed, responsible and totally 100% reliable
- quiet, generally more serious
- hobbies - enjoys sports of most descriptions, does scuba diving, surfing, fencing, skiing, snowboarding etc. Was always the most enthusiastic participant of school camps - she adored the outdoors-type adventure.
- fairly live-and-let-live in opinion... doesn't really mind people who do things differently than her
- polite and courteous to everyone, respectable
- can be firey with her opinions when the mood strikes her
- is in some ways 'naive' about people and their perhaps less-than-honest intentions - she herself is always upfront and honest
- initiates relationships: actively pursues her interests
- is quite content in a placid, long-term relationship, doesn't seem to mind if it's not exciting or changing
- is studying science, or more specifically forensics
- very smart, and always hard-working when it comes to school work: consistently gets very good grades
- sticks to her guns with her opinions but doesn't push them on you
- good memory
- always says hello and gives me a hug every time I see her (we work at the same place, so even every time we have a shift together there too)
- lives with her parents who can be a little strict sometimes, but seems to live quite contentedly under them
- when she learned to drive, wanted to get a motorbike instead of a car (given, the car was her parents old one, with a huge work logo on the side). Has since settled for the car.
- very talented with languages: speaks four different languages fluently

Umm, that's all I can think of this instant, I'll be sure to come back and add more if needed.

What do you guys think?

 

[JustDave]

Although your friend has a number of contradictory traits she seems more like a well rounded and responsible ISTP than an ISTJ.

For example my uncle is what many would consider the Quintessential ISTP. He can fix anything, loves cars, boats, electronics and sport. And was a Fireman (now retired). However, he has four kids and has been happily married to the same women since his 20's. Also he has never been arrested nor has he been in many physical fights.

 

[arcticangel02]

Just out of curiosity, which points seem contradictory?

 

[JustDave]

The hobbies and live-and-let-live attiude in this case would indicate an SP yet she is 100% reliable and takes school seriously which is definitely SJ not SP.

Although her upbringing could be the reason for those SJ tendencies.

 

[Totenkindly]

Sounds much more ISTP than ISTJ to me (due to the amount of openness). ISTPs will have opinions due to Ti, they just are willing to flex outwardly about them. ISTJs do come off as far more particular about things.

The best contrast I ever got was a married couple I was friends with: The husband was ISTP, the wife was ISTJ. So you could compare and contrast easily enough, and even see how they dealt with each other. It was very enlightening.

As far as being responsible, other things can play into that. One ISTP woman I know, despite being flexible and relaxed, went on to grad school and took her studies very seriously. She was also the eldest of four girls. Being eldest is just one factor that contributes to expressions of responsibility; if she had been the youngest, she might have been very different (i.e. more carefree and roving).

 

[JustDave]

Sounds much more ISTP than ISTJ to me (due to the amount of openness). ISTPs will have opinions due to Ti, they just are willing to flex outwardly about them. ISTJs do come off as far more particular about things.

The best contrast I ever got was a married couple I was friends with: The husband was ISTP, the wife was ISTJ. So you could compare and contrast easily enough, and even see how they dealt with each other. It was very enlightening.

As far as being responsible, other things can play into that. One ISTP woman I know, despite being flexible and relaxed, went on to grad school and took her studies very seriously. She was also the eldest of four girls. Being eldest is just one factor that contributes to expressions of responsibility; if she had been the youngest, she might have been very different (i.e. more carefree and roving).

Interesting point about birth order. I have often wondered if my responsible nature is due to the fact that I am the eldest child (actually i'm not but it's a long boring story ...).

 

[Totenkindly]

Interesting point about birth order. I have often wondered if my responsible nature is due to the fact that I am the eldest child (actually i'm not but it's a long boring story ...).

lol... well, it ain't like we don't have time and space.

 

[arcticangel02]

Haha. Tangents.

She is an eldest child (of two) and her younger brother definitely is more free-wheeling, but I don't hold much stock in birth-order theory...

I'm the eldest, too, and not organised at all. My ESFP younger sister is more organised than I. ^^

But then again, that could be a parenting difference... her parents are somewhat more strict than mine.

 

[JustDave]

lol... well, it ain't like we don't have time and space.

Good point!

Techinically I have an older brother but he was a product of my Dad's first marriage and is much older than I. He's 43 and I'm 26.

The reason I consider myself the eldest sibling is I have a younger brother and by the time we were cogniscent of the world, my older brother was married, had his own house and was essentially out of the picture.

 

[JustDave]

Haha. Tangents.

She is an eldest child (of two) and her younger brother definitely is more free-wheeling, but I don't hold much stock in birth-order theory...

I'm the eldest, too, and not organised at all. My ESFP younger sister is more organised than I. ^^

But then again, that could be a parenting difference... her parents are somewhat more strict than mine.

My dad has never been strict and I am greatful for that fact everyday. He basically had three rules: don't fail in school, don't get arrested and don't get killed.

 

[arcticangel02]

Good rules!

 

[JustDave]

Thanks.

Back to your original purpose. My hunch is your friend is an ISTP. And I have one supporting reason I would like to add:

I think it is easier to learn to be responsible than learning to enjoy risky hobbies (surfing, scuba diving) and SJs seem like a risk adverse group.

Although I could be 100% wrong. Feel free to rip my post apart.

 

[Totenkindly]

Techinically I have an older brother but he was a product of my Dad's first marriage and is much older than I. He's 43 and I'm 26.

The reason I consider myself the eldest sibling is I have a younger brother and by the time we were cogniscent of the world, my older brother was married, had his own house and was essentially out of the picture.

I think that is definitely how it plays out -- you took the role of elder to your younger brother.

The rule of thumb is that that distances larger than 5 years generally negate the effect and the sequence starts over.

I think it is easier to learn to be responsible than learning to enjoy risky hobbies (surfing, scuba diving) and SJs seem like a risk adverse group.

No, that's a good point to consider. I think it's true, and childhood is usually a time where children are pushed towards more responsibility anyway, not more risk.

(I have noticed a wicked streak in ISFJ women, though, where sometimes they really enjoy doing more "wild" things... fast driving, jet-skiing, gun-shooting, and other things that involve tangible proficiencies. So they're not really doing it for the risk, per se, but it looks a little like it.)

 

[JustDave]

Thanks!

My vote is for ISTP.

 

[JustDave]

BTW, the beagle isn't mine. But when I get a dog its going to be a beagle. They rock!

 

[arcticangel02]

Well, I saw this friend today and subjected her to two type tests and the cognitive functions test.

And guess what? She came out clearly ISTJ on both tests, and the sometimes skewy cognitive functions test also pointed out a very clear ISTJ.

Guess I typed wrong. ^^

Oh well, a good typing experience nonetheless!

 

["?"]

She was also the eldest of four girls. Being eldest is just one factor that contributes to expressions of responsibility; if she had been the youngest, she might have been very different (i.e. more carefree and roving).

Interesting point Jenn. I was the middle of two three boys, however was expected to be the surrogate parent. I think that I was quite dutiful growing up.

Something else that I have determined is that some of the test questions on assessments seems flawed and I know that I have an arduous time responding, in particular to questions that in my opinion describes sensing, however the responses result in J or questions that pertaining to intuiton but resulting in P.

I know that is the correct order, however for simple dichotomies it raises confusion. I think that the average SP likes consistency and knowing what the rules are, not to abide by them like SJ but knowing how far they can push the envelope.