[ENFP] xNFP and selfishness?

[Jaguar]

That's some mighty fine projection you've got going on there, bud.

Apparently the truth is so foreign to you, even when it smacks you in the face you're still in denial.

 

[ObeyBunny]

You just found 2 bad apples in the orchard, that's all.

I cant help but get the vibe they only want to talk about themselves.

Actually, I've met some very respectable NFP's. You may have just found a couple of rotten NFP Girls floating around the NF circle.

I don't know what you can really do about it, though.

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah I would guess that a lot of the type 4's who get trolled see it as a personal attack, rather than an attack on their ideas. I say this because that seems to be the most common conflict, a few type 4's vs a few ENTPs. That's why it seems so offensive. There is no tone of voice over the internet (unless that race from Mass Effect 2 who inserts the emotional tone before a sentence exists, which I seriously doubt! ). In real life... if a debate like that arose, the tone of voice wouldn't be verbally abusive or anything ridiculous like that that's perceived here. It's more curious, thoughtful, and playful. I'm sometimes amazed by the hostility that I see here, since something like that would probably not happen over something so retarded in real life.

To answer marm's question, yes you can pretty easily get to know what the types are like online. But being trollbait isn't a great way of doing that. The way I see most of these conflicts go, is that type 4 NFP will get offended at something the ENTP says. So they go aggro on the person. ANYONE will get defensive when someone gets aggressive with them... so what does the ENTP do? Sure they get defensive, but their idea of being defensive, especially over the internet, is to steamroll someone with their mind. Thus, conflict. I think that the main point that the ENTPs have been trying to get across to these people is just to engage them on an equal level. Logically analyzing and being fair, not being personally offensive and vengeful. That confuses them. This is just from observing, lol.

AND THEN THE THREAD DIED.

What intrigues me though is that while there is no tone of voice on the internet, I totally get most of the NTJs on here when they're trolling or being funny. With ENTPs it seems more mixed up with serious, like there isn't a clear distinction. It seems more blatantly disrespectful. I don't know why. I've had people tell me how awful and abrasive Jaguar can be, and it doesn't really register with me at all. Same thing with Edgar - I think he's hilarious, even if he's joking about rape. SO SOMETHING MUST BE DIFFERENT HERE. IT CANNOT JUST BE MY IMAGINATION. There are *certain* ENTPs on this site - and I say certain ones, because others are absolutely delightful - who are just really unbelievably obnoxious.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. As you say, I can choose to ignore these people and just not respond. I think the reason I do respond is because sometimes they seem serious. It's really all a matter of perception, I guess. *shrugs*

 

[onemoretime]

Apparently the truth is so foreign to you, even when it smacks you in the face you're still in denial.

And apparently, you've never met an actual human being in your life. A pity, really.

 

[runvardh]

*shrug* I have yet to find a truly unselfish person...

 

[Jaguar]

And apparently, you've never met an actual human being in your life. A pity, really.

Grow up, thanks.

 

[simulatedworld]

Of course!


Not all ENTPs behave like cockroaches, Sim.
But there are many in this forum who do.
Frankly, I don't think they'd have the guts to say half the shit they do in this forum, to someone's face.

That's most certainly true, but it's not a question of guts. It's a question of caring more about preserving relationships with people in real life.

What intrigues me though is that while there is no tone of voice on the internet, I totally get most of the NTJs on here when they're trolling or being funny. With ENTPs it seems more mixed up with serious, like there isn't a clear distinction. It seems more blatantly disrespectful. I don't know why. I've had people tell me how awful and abrasive Jaguar can be, and it doesn't really register with me at all. Same thing with Edgar - I think he's hilarious, even if he's joking about rape. SO SOMETHING MUST BE DIFFERENT HERE. IT CANNOT JUST BE MY IMAGINATION. There are *certain* ENTPs on this site - and I say certain ones, because others are absolutely delightful - who are just really unbelievably obnoxious.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. As you say, I can choose to ignore these people and just not respond. I think the reason I do respond is because sometimes they seem serious. It's really all a matter of perception, I guess. *shrugs*

Not coincidentally, we get along much better with the FJs and they tend to appreciate our sense of humor/pick up on the fact that we're joking 20x more than you do. We don't seem nearly as serious, especially to the NFJs, because they're way better at reading us than you are. Personally, I have a lot of trouble reading NTJs.

It's a Ti/Fe vs. Fi/Te communication gap. NTPs are not any more objectively obnoxious than NTJs; you just understand the NTJ sense of humor better because you share their judging functions. End of story.

 

[Jaguar]

It's a question of caring more about preserving relationships with people in real life.

Nice try.

 

[simulatedworld]

Nice try.

What do you mean? I'm serious about that. I care less about the consequences of offending people online than I do about those of offending people in real life. If that means I lack guts, then I guess you're right.

 

[Jaguar]

What do you mean? I'm serious about that. I care less about the consequences of offending people online than I do about those of offending people in real life. If that means I lack guts, then I guess you're right.

Far worse than lacking guts, it lacks integrity.

 

[simulatedworld]

Far worse than lacking guts, it lacks integrity.

I mean...I know the whole "Tell everyone what you think of them in no uncertain terms all the time because anything less is dishonest" thing is a big value for type 8 ENTJs, but that doesn't mean anyone who exercises a little more restraint lacks integrity.

 

[phthalocyanine]

i actually usually want to punch xNTJs in the face for their 'jokes', almost as often as with ISTJs. i don't know why, it's a pattern i have noticed, though. i personally think it's a lot more fun with xNTP's. because it's more like sparring. and it is quite a challenge to get the xNTP to experience the same "rug being pulled from beneath" feeling they give to us. i like that challenge.

it's lame that xNFP's get a rep for being humourless bad sports.
maybe that's why i wanted to believe it when so many people told me i was INFJ. or because that's what INFPs do. act gullible. we are the perfect troll victims. but as such we also have the capacity to be the trolls as well... if only the Fi would pipe down more. it's been known to happen on occasion.

 

[simulatedworld]

ISTJs make jokes??

 

[Jaguar]

I mean...I know the whole "Tell everyone what you think of them in no uncertain terms all the time because anything less is dishonest" thing is a big value for type 8 ENTJs, but that doesn't mean anyone who exercises a little more restraint lacks integrity.

Sim, integrity means a lot to people. Not just me.
If pretending people in this forum are figments of your imagination helps to assuage your guilty conscience, knock yourself out.

 

[simulatedworld]

Sim, integrity means a lot to people. Not just me.
If pretending people in this forum are figments of your imagination helps to assuage your guilty conscience, knock yourself out.

That's not what I mean. I think you have a reputation for abrasiveness on the forum similar to mine. You've certainly received more disciplinary action for it than I have. That doesn't mean that either of us lacks integrity.

So is it the fact that I choose to restrain my abrasiveness more in real life than I do on the internet that makes me lack integrity? Is it the discontinuity between the two?

How would I gain more integrity--by aligning my internet behavior more closely with my real life behavior?

 

[Thalassa]

i actually usually want to punch xNTJs in the face for their 'jokes'

and you're totally sure you're not an INFJ?

but as such we also have the capacity to be the trolls as well... if only the Fi would pipe down more. it's been known to happen on occasion.

Very true. Just look at Mystic Tater.

and me

 

[fusetah]

That's not what I mean. I think you have a reputation for abrasiveness on the forum similar to mine. You've certainly received more disciplinary action for it than I have. That doesn't mean that either of us lacks integrity.

So is it the fact that I choose to restrain my abrasiveness more in real life than I do on the internet that makes me lack integrity? Is it the discontinuity between the two?

How would I gain more integrity--by aligning my internet behavior more closely with my real life behavior?

Integration



/Fuse

 

[Jaguar]

How would I gain more integrity--by aligning my internet behavior more closely with my real life behavior?

It's a little late for that, don't you think?

And as far as me getting more disciplinary action for what I say?
Sim, I have been rewarded again and again IRL for what I am "punished" for online.
I'm not going to change what earned me respect and success in business.

 

[phthalocyanine]

and you're totally sure you're not an INFJ?

no... i'm never totally sure of anything, but that's why i doubt i am a real J-dom.

 

[onemoretime]

Grow up, thanks.

You're cute when you know you've been bested.