[INFJ] Are INFJs naturally fascinated with ENTPs?

[Fidelia]

What is strength?

It is a tightrope. People can be so strong that you cannot benefit them. Everyone wants to love someone in the way that their love is a unique healing salve.

Sorry for the non-sequitor. I have experienced this though and wanted to ask you more about it from the other side. Are the people who work that hard to project an image of being strong just not ready to accept love from someone, or will steadfastness eventually wear the facade away like waves lapping at it?

Also, Sim what do ENTPs then (secretly) hope for from the other person if they are constantly working to make sure others don't know how badly they need it?

Is ENTP cheating an expression of boredom and short attention span, or is it fleeing potential closeness and vulnerability by distancing themselves from the person most likely to see their real self?

Do ENTPs have the same kind of drive to be understood as INFJs do?

How is TP "strength" different from TJ "strength"? Are there different goals in projecting that image or different ways of relating to SOs?

Do ENTPs tend to purposely do stuff that might "buck off" anyone who didn't care strongly enough for them as a kind of test of whether they can handle them?

 

[Synarch]

In what sense do you mean "nurtured"? Like motherly? Bring me food/drink/comfort? etc.

One thing I find really attractive about INFJ's is that they are very accepting and nurturing. Or, they seem to be. I need a strong mental connection, an equal, and yet I still respond to the classic feminine approach of nurturing and softness.

 

[ajblaise]

One thing I find really attractive about INFJ's is that they are very accepting and nurturing. Or, they seem to be. I need a strong mental connection, an equal, and yet I still respond to the classic feminine approach of nurturing and softness.

About the accepting thing; what about when their Jness springs up or clashes with P?

 

[the state i am in]

My question between a INFJ male and an ENTP female is, wouldn't the female get weary with the INFJ need to "talk out" emotions and decisions? I don't pretend to know, I am curious. I mean because my INFJ needs to talk his emotions/decisions out with me a lot. Far more than I really need in return. And he's very private, he doesn't show this side to very many people, so I bear the brunt of this.

this would be a serious obstacle. yet i will say that the more enps i know in the course of my life, the more free i become. infjs need to learn to weather the storm, develop a little bit of a Ti foundation to stabilize themselves, and get out the bad feelings that build up in a healthy way. then we're perfect.

my own goals for my personal development involve:
-shutting up and making decisions for myself
-better centering
-being more open and emotionally receptive to others (i'm an e5)
-not being so hard on myself

T types help accelerate this growth process more quickly for infjs who are willing to accept the growing pains.

 

[Synarch]

Sorry for the non-sequitor. I have experienced this though and wanted to ask you more about it from the other side. Are the people who work that hard to project an image of being strong just not ready to accept love from someone, or will steadfastness eventually wear the facade away like waves lapping at it?

I think they're not ready to accept loving themselves. You know? How could they accept it from anyone else?

Is ENTP cheating an expression of boredom and short attention span, or is it fleeing potential closeness and vulnerability by distancing themselves from the person most likely to see their real self?

I've never really had a problem cheating. But, I know myself enough to know what I am vulnerable to. That said, I have tried to make messes to force my own hand. To scorch the earth so that I couldn't slip back into something.

Do ENTPs have the same kind of drive to be understood as INFJs do?

I think so.

How is TP "strength" different from TJ "strength"? Are there different goals in projecting that image or different ways of relating to SOs?

TP's are survivors, I think. Adaptable. Resourceful. I love dancing out of the jaws of danger. It makes me feel excited but I am also vulnerable to taking this ability for granted and getting myself into REAL trouble.

TJ's like to power through. In my experience. Less a swashbuckling adventure fraught with risk and more the bulldozing tank-like movement from point A to point B.

Do ENTPs tend to purposely do stuff that might "buck off" anyone who didn't care strongly enough for them as a kind of test of whether they can handle them?

I don't think so. But, we can test people. I don't often realize I do it. But, I sometimes have a bad habit of making people "prove" things.

 

[Synarch]

About the accepting thing; what about when their Jness springs up or clashes with P?

I've found this to happen with semantic things, especially. For me, there are a lot of shades of grey, especially when it comes to myself. Just as an example, if someone eats meat once every three weeks I would consider them a vegetarian. I think an INFJ might be a little more hardline about it. In some situations, I have seen INFJ's take a fairly hardline stance on things because they just tend to go one way or another. They don't generally understand wishiwashiness once an issue has been "settled". I think this might really annoy them with NTP's because it can seem unreliable and even dishonest.

 

[sammy]

One thing I find really attractive about INFJ's is that they are very accepting and nurturing. Or, they seem to be. I need a strong mental connection, an equal, and yet I still respond to the classic feminine approach of nurturing and softness.

I think the male ENTP/female INFJ dynamic works out best for what you're describing as a need. The many female INFJs I've gotten to know over the years are all very quick-witted and will challenge you mentally, but they're incredibly soft, gentle, and nurturing when you're close to them. I find that attractive in a friend role. I would not respond well to an extremely nurturing man in a relationship, unless he was incredibly balanced in providing a strong mental connection, as well.

But... I think "nurturing" tendencies in men may play out differently. So, let's say the man opens doors, walks the girl to her car at night even if it's below zero outdoors, etc. That, to me, is a major turn-on. Attentiveness can be nurturing, but just don't over do it, or expect that I will be like that all the time in return (I'm too absent-minded to fulfill the role 24/7. I don't mean to disappoint in fulfilling the kind of nurturing role that most men desire, but it tends to happen that way due to misunderstandings).

 

[the state i am in]

I can definitely see how their marriage ended in irreconcilable differences with the provided reasons. It can be such a hindrance to romantic feelings to continue existing when you're always having to work hard at pleasing the other person. I imagine the ideal marriage to be a situation where both people effortlessly (for the most part), and naturally just "get it".

i see infjs as assuming that the feeling they need so desperately like fuel to keep them going must be supplied by their romantic partner. and that if it is not naturally in abundance that they must help create it through context, communication, connection, etc.

the notion that we must find it for ourselves in the world and in our daily existence is confusing and can be highly distracting. i know i need it, but it is awkward to get it elsewhere when that would completely capture my attention and feel somewhat like infidelity. where are we to find inspiration? and completely opening ourselves up, how can we make it worth it when doing that takes a great amount of inspiration because so much negativity gets into us as well throughout the process.

 

[Synarch]

But... I think "nurturing" tendencies in men may play out differently. So, let's say the man opens doors, walks the girl to her car at night even if it's below zero outdoors, etc. That, to me, is a major turn-on. Attentiveness can be nurturing, but just don't over do it, or expect that I will be like that all the time in return (I'm too absent-minded to fulfill the role 24/7. I don't mean to disappoint in fulfilling the kind of nurturing role that most men desire, but it tends to happen that way due to misunderstandings).

What types of men do you particular respond to? INTJ? I have known some INTJ women and it's almost right except that they seem too masculine and rarely know how to dress and look pretty.

 

[Fidelia]

I think they're not ready to accept loving themselves. You know? How could they accept it from anyone else?.

That certainly makes sense and it squares with my conclusion that someone can spend their whole lives trying to fill in a hole for the other person and yet it is a bottomless pit, until the person themselves grabs a shovel and fills it in. It's not until then that they can really focus on anyone else like they need to, or really believe in (and not run away from) the love being showered on them.

I've never really had a problem cheating. But, I know myself enough to know what I am vulnerable to. That said, I have tried to make messes to force my own hand. To scorch the earth so that I couldn't slip back into something.

Vulnerable to in terms of other people? Also, can you explain the bolded part a little more?

I don't think so. But, we can test people. I don't often realize I do it. But, I sometimes have a bad habit of making people "prove" things.

In what ways? I think this is what I was getting at. What do you do? Do you realize after the fact that you have done it, or only when it's pointed out. Is it conscious, or unconscious?

 

[Fidelia]

And what did I do wrong this time that multi-quoting once again did not work for me?

 

[sammy]

And what did I do wrong this time that multi-quoting once again did not work for me?

Haha, the "/" before the first bracketed quote tag negates the quote command.

 

[EcK]

edit:
the first one has to be

so without the /

 

[Fidelia]

Thank you all!

 

[Synarch]

Vulnerable to in terms of other people? Also, can you explain the bolded part a little more?

By vulnerable, I just mean that no one sets out to hurt people or make mistakes. "The road to hell..", etc. I think it's foolish to think you could never cheat or hurt someone you love. People do all the time and they rarely see it for what it is when it's happening to them and when they're doing it. So, I generally try to be aware of myself and stay fairly paranoid about the dangers of becoming close to people of the opposite sex.

As for the bolded part, I have tried making big messes to force my own hand. When I was younger, I tried to drive someone away by making myself look like an asshole simply because I couldn't break away on my own. I once told someone I couldn't date them because they weren't white. I didn't do this because I was racist or because it was the truth. I did it because I wanted to make them angry so they would leave without me having to be honest about the real reasons, namely that I was no longer attracted to them. I would rather they hate me than feel insecure.

In what ways? I think this is what I was getting at. What do you do? Do you realize after the fact that you have done it, or only when it's pointed out. Is it conscious, or unconscious?

Oh, in the past I have just pushed people and tried different things just to see how they would respond. If they were too quick to bail, I would think that they were likely to not be long-term material.

 

[sammy]

What types of men do you particular respond to? INTJ? I have known some INTJ women and it's almost right except that they seem too masculine and rarely know how to dress and look pretty.

Do you mean that INTJ women are almost right for fulfilling your needs, but because they don't typically seem feminine, it turns you off? So, are you attracted to any type that is ultimately nurturing?

I respond especially well to most other ENTPs and ENTJs. Both types, from my experience, give me just the right amount of nurturing and attentiveness to be satisfied. I think a INTx would suit me well too, but I've yet to be in any kind of relationship past friendship with one.

i see infjs as assuming that the feeling they need so desperately like fuel to keep them going must be supplied by their romantic partner. and that if it is not naturally in abundance that they must help create it through context, communication, connection, etc.

the notion that we must find it for ourselves in the world and in our daily existence is confusing and can be highly distracting. i know i need it, but it is awkward to get it elsewhere when that would completely capture my attention and feel somewhat like infidelity. where are we to find inspiration? and completely opening ourselves up, how can we make it worth it when doing that takes a great amount of inspiration because so much negativity gets into us as well throughout the process.

Hmm, I can see a vicious cycle between an immature ENTP and INFJ would emerge from that kind of situation. One would constantly try to connect through various medium, and the other would back off more and more due to the perceived "insecurity." I've seen that dynamic play out between many other types, but especially with preference combinations so diametrically opposed.

I can see why you'd say it would feel like infidelity. Maybe, it's not worth being in a relationship with someone you cannot open up to, or with. That's not a "relationship" then, as defined by your realistic needs.

 

[Fidelia]

By vulnerable, I just mean that no one sets out to hurt people or make mistakes. "The road to hell..", etc. I think it's foolish to think you could never cheat or hurt someone you love. People do all the time and they rarely see it for what it is when it's happening to them and when they're doing it. So, I generally try to be aware of myself and stay fairly paranoid about the dangers of becoming close to people of the opposite sex.

One of my male friends (ENTJ?) had a father that had cheated and he seemed determined to prove that he could withstand even the most tempting of circumstances. I asked him about what if he failed (after all, understanding something intellectually is not all of the equation even when we have strong conviction about it) and he felt that since he couldn't afford to fail since the stakes were so high, it would actually strengthen the relationship.

Your line of reasoning makes much more sense to me and has been borne out in what I've observed with other couples. I have learned to avoid getting close to people of the opposite sex who are not good potential partners or avoid getting close to people of the opposite sex when I am in a relationship (or when they are).

 

[Synarch]

Do you mean that INTJ women are almost right for fulfilling your needs, but because they don't typically seem feminine, it turns you off? So, are you attracted to any type that is ultimately nurturing?

I respond especially well to most other ENTPs and ENTJs. Both types, from my experience, give me just the right amount of nurturing and attentiveness to be satisfied. I think a INTx would suit me well too, but I've yet to be in any kind of relationship past friendship with one.

INTJ women seem to have a compatible sense of humor and possess the INXJ serenity I appreciate. But, they seem a bit rough around the edges. They can be feminine but they are generally not very refined. They tend to be a bit insensitive in terms of what they wear or eat or how they move. They are often very ardent, I think. So, it's not a question of passion. They just seem to need a bit of polish that is not natural for them. I find this lack of refinement and elegance unappealing in a woman. I like how charming women can be when they have a well-developed aesthetic sense. It's highly intoxicating. INFJ women who exult in beauty and take pride in themselves seem to sometimes possess a very unique yet feminine sense of style in all aspects of their lives.

 

[heart]

Hmm, I can see a vicious cycle between an immature ENTP and INFJ would emerge from that kind of situation. One would constantly try to connect through various medium, and the other would back off more and more due to the perceived "insecurity." I've seen that dynamic play out between many other types, but especially with preference combinations so diametrically opposed...

In my experience, if their Fe needs are not met, the INFJ will not keep trying to connect, they will shut down and become depressed and unhappy. Very negative Ni-Ti loop thing starts up.

 

[Synarch]

Your line of reasoning makes much more sense to me and has been borne out in what I've observed with other couples. I have learned to avoid getting close to people of the opposite sex who are not good potential partners or avoid getting close to people of the opposite sex when I am in a relationship (or when they are).

Right. At the end of the day we are designed to become close to people of the opposite sex. This is the powerful biological magic that perpetuates our species. To think we have total control over this fails to recognize the true power of attraction. You are setting yourself up to fail.

It has the potential to overwhelm all reason, propriety, and concern for anything else. This is the duality of Romance. It has the power to create and destroy. It is elemental. Why else do we compare romantic love to fire? Fire excites and warms but the same fire can maim and destroy.

As an example, everyone should see "Damage". I believe it's on Netflix streaming.