[MBTI General] ISTJs - Your thoughts on ESFPs

[defragmybrain]

ISTJs..

What are your thoughts on ESFP's as romantic partners? If you've never had one, what would your perceptions/doubts/worries of that type of person be?

Why ask?

I've been dating an ISTJ for over year now. Having read your forums for the last hour, i can see that he's no exception: dutiful, meticulous about his efforts, peeved by people being late & bad grammar, drives super safe on the road, NOT a fan of spontaniety. (these examples kept coming up in the posts)
He's also not very verbal about his affections for me, which i can handle, but would love to hear from him. Actions speak loud, but sometimes words speak louder. As S's, both ISTJ and ESFP love to live by "mean what you say". But how do i get him to start talking?

Also, I've had issues with many of his behaviors - but somehow we're still together. He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc. He's the all american boy who likes it how he's had it for years.

I'm an eccentric, loud, Russian born ball of chaos. I like variety. I eat something new every day. I redecorate my bedroom every six months. I like to travel. I speak four languages. etc etc etc. I want him to try new foods or go to a new restaurant.. etc, he refuses and cringes. So while i see the value in his rigid ways, (safety, security, familiarity, tradition).. I also see value in what I prefer. How do i find a common ground with him? He's more or less uncompromising. We're extreme J and P opposites.

ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.
How do i fix this??

Anyway, rambling.
In general I love the ISTJ.
<3 Thoughts?

 

[2XtremeENFP]

ISTJs..
Also, I've had issues with many of his behaviors - but somehow we're still together. He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc. He's the all american boy who likes it how he's had it for years.

I HEAR YA.

 

[Sam Spade]

Also, I've had issues with many of his behaviors - but somehow we're still together. He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc. He's the all american boy who likes it how he's had it for years.

Wow. Is this typical for ISTJs? Because I'm the exact opposite of that. I'm extremely curious and love traveling.

 

[defragmybrain]

maybe its typical for an insecure unstable ISTJ.
and maybe i'm wrong but sadly am one of those girls who tries to 'help' and 'fix' someone. thus my MBTI interests.

 

[Habba]

He's also not very verbal about his affections for me, which i can handle, but would love to hear from him. Actions speak loud, but sometimes words speak louder. As S's, both ISTJ and ESFP love to live by "mean what you say". But how do i get him to start talking?

I'm very unverbal about my feelings towards everyone. Luckily I'm surrounded by people who know that I speak through actions. I don't speak too much about how I feel about things for couple of reasons. Mainly I just feel that words are corny and inadequate to tell what I feel. And you shouldn't need to hear the things that you should be able to see and feel by yourself.

You might also want to ask yourself why do you want to hear him talk about his affections for you, if you can already read them through his actions.

He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc.

Well, I don't like traveling myself either. What's the point? The world out there is just the same as the world right here. Everything I need, is right here, between my shoulders.

secure and safe in his little world

Doesn't sound too respectful of you to say it like this...

Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.

Ermm... where's the logic in this?

First you say you don't want to be a whiney girlfriend, but then you wait long enough for you to forget what it was all about and then you complain about it. If you have something to complain about, do it immediately (well, in some cases it might be wise to wait for a moment ) so that you both have a fresh view of what has happened.

Most ISTJs I know feel bad if they have done something that upsets other people. However, most of the time they just aren't aware of that, and did whatever they did unintentionally. So speak up, and they'll be sorry.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.

I relate more than you know to the whole 'having a problem, forgetting the proof.'
It's so frustrating!!

 

[IZthe411]

Do you have a sister?

I just finished a relationship with an ISFP, and if there was one thing about her I wish I could change is that she was an E. My older sister is an ESFP, and I think I would like what she offers as a mate. (In another person you cornballs!)

I think you might be dealing with an extreme I.....I test very low I, sometimes, low E, in tests. My other 3 aspects are moderate to extreme.

How old you are you and he? Maturity plays into it as well.

One piece of advice I gave to another poster, is to be open with your feelings. Sure, he might get annoyed, but if he cares about you, he'll keep it in mind. If you are persistent enough, he'll really understand. Not only is he a man, but an ISTJ man. I think the risk of being perceived as a whiner is outweighed by your unhappiness.

Can you get him to try things without actually telling him? Not saying being deceitful, but try to get him in situations where he has no choice but to go along with the fun. If you go to a restaurant where there's no burgers and fries, he will have to try something different. You feel me?

 

[defragmybrain]

I'm 21. He's 26. I'd like to think we have a very mature relationship in that we discuss every single aspect of not only our problems but the dynamic between us.
And yes - I have to be more open with him. I'm constantly afraid he'll cringe and shoot my feelings down, even if we've been together for so long.
And yes - I took him to an indian restaurant where he literally did NOT know what to do with himself. He poked at the food for like fifteen minutes, something that more closely resembles chicken.. but overall he didn't regret the experience.
In conclusion i guess there's alot of work to be done on his end... I'm trying to appear like 'we're in it together".

 

[Amargith]

Try building it up. I mean, the new experiences. I have an INTJ at home and although this isn't the same, he too likes to know what's coming. Nothing drives him for instance crazier than us having to be somewhere and he has no clue where it is and I do. And I won't tell him. The fact that he cannot monitor the process of getting there is just nerve-wrecking on him. Especially coz he knows i won't sweat the details and that might mean we get into a situation he, once again, isn't prepared for. He's learned to suffer through it, but it's the worst for him as he knows *nothing* and nothing is familiar.

The best way to do it is build it up: I tend to experiment with food. I cannot stand constantly eating the same thing. Why don't you cook for him, at home, where he's comfortable and have him try new things. Mine actually likes me doing that, coz, although he's apprehensive about what I cook, he also has experienced that sometimes, it makes for some great new recipes, very yummy. Yesterday we did another experiment and he was...meh about it. But he went: 'It's ok, last time you absolutely nailed it. Can't always be completely right.' And if it really isn't eatable, he just reaches for the phone and orders in. That way he feels somewhat secure. Do this with every experiment. Don't toss him in, but change one thing at a time. Just one detail out of place. It might just spark his curiosity

As for the feeling thing..one thing that made me fall in love with him was that he'd seen me emo-explode and stayed calm during. If I blow up, I know (unless he's stressed himself and even then), he'll be able to handle it. Coz he knows me. He knows that i don't mean it personally, but I just feel trapped and something's gotto give. As for telling him something I don't like, I just discuss it. I ask him why he does it. What his motivation is. And then I explain him how it affects me, without accusing him (unless I'm already annoyed, which he then again realizes isn't all his doing). He's smart enough to put two and two together. If I find his reasoning for the behavior to be valid enough, it'll take away the frustration automatically, and I won't mind him doing it in the future again. And he does the same with me. If I feel that he does that for a trivial reason and it really bugs me, he'll recognize that and accomodate me. Arguing is a way to sort out issues, before they become a mountain you don't know how to climb. Oh and my So also knows that if he dares to make a comment negatively about the fact that I'm being emotional, the door to communication closes and he gets a freeze-out. He also has no need to do this usually. Not considering my emotions = bye bye. I consider his as well (irritation, frustration, level of enjoyment, all those things that he's not that aware of but are important to his happiness ime). Same thing, I won't dismiss his logic just coz 'it doesn't feel right'. I'll try to figure out why it doesn't feel right and translate it into logic, so we can figure it out together. Respecting each others pov's and modus operandi is...vital

 

[Snow Turtle]

Wow. Is this typical for ISTJs? Because I'm the exact opposite of that. I'm extremely curious and love traveling.

The bubble is just bigger.

We seek stability (tradition) in how we approach life and that can be living lifestyles deemed as unconventional by the majority if those are the values we wanted to adopt. Most of the time since SJs are brought up in specific stable environments. You won't really get extreme deviations from the 'norms' of society.

 

[defragmybrain]

Try building it up.
...
Respecting each others pov's and modus operandi is...vital

I wish he came with an instruction manual. i don't think I've ever had to work so hard at a relationship. This appeared "closedmindedness" (okay, wrong term, but i'm frustrated) is affecting all aspects of our relationship. He must know Where we go, what we eat, how we have sex, etc etc etc. I let it slide for a while because A. i like him and i CAN go with the flow, i CAN live by his order but it finally became SO routine i had to speak up within six months. B. I thought he needed to learn to trust me before he could consider switching things up once in a while...
Work work work.


I feel like i don't need him. And thats actualy part of the appeal to stay. Is that bad? ..haha

 

[IZthe411]

I wish he came with an instruction manual. i don't think I've ever had to work so hard at a relationship. This appeared "closedmindedness" (okay, wrong term, but i'm frustrated) is affecting all aspects of our relationship. He must know Where we go, what we eat, how we have sex, etc etc etc. I let it slide for a while because A. i like him and i CAN go with the flow, i CAN live by his order but it finally became SO routine i had to speak up within six months. B. I thought he needed to learn to trust me before he could consider switching things up once in a while...
Work work work.


I feel like i don't need him. And thats actualy part of the appeal to stay. Is that bad? ..haha

He must be an extreme ISTJ; but it may be because you are dealing with someone 5 years older than you, he probably more set in his ways.

Are you saying he's NEVER spontaneous, NEVER flexible, or are you exaggerating his need to know everything?

I just read an older post of how you may be trying to fix him. Don't do that to him. He doesn't need fixing. My ex did that to me and it pissed me off. The last thing I want to be is some kind of experiment.

Don't look at his way of life as a problem, but as a preference. The man likes structure and predicatability. What draws you to him is your spontaneity and go with the flow attitude. I'm sure he's not trying to change you, and it doesn't appear he has a problem with your way of going about things. You can only enrich his life by working with him, but you have to SPEAK UP. If you don't then he won't know how much these things mean to you, and that will hurt you both in the long run.

 

[defragmybrain]

He must be an extreme ISTJ; but it may be because you are dealing with someone 5 years older than you, he probably more set in his ways.

Are you saying he's NEVER spontaneous, NEVER flexible, or are you exaggerating his need to know everything?

I just read an older post of how you may be trying to fix him. Don't do that to him. He doesn't need fixing. My ex did that to me and it pissed me off. The last thing I want to be is some kind of experiment.

Don't look at his way of life as a problem, but as a preference. The man likes structure and predicatability. What draws you to him is your spontaneity and go with the flow attitude. I'm sure he's not trying to change you, and it doesn't appear he has a problem with your way of going about things. You can only enrich his life by working with him, but you have to SPEAK UP. If you don't then he won't know how much these things mean to you, and that will hurt you both in the long run.

Okay yeah, the word 'fix' is really demeaning. nobody wants to think their preference is a problem - and nobody wants to be fixed - everyone has preferences for a reason.
I think he is misunderstanding me and taking advantage of the situation by saying "Well you can live by my rules, so what's the problem? Live your way when i'm not around" - thats what i'm sort of afraid of.
Everytime we talk constructively about our issues i always remind him he can speak up about issues he has with me. He never has any, at least never talks about any.

He IS rather big on specifics - What time are you getting here text messages. If i say half hour and end up 40 minutes in he's frustrated. If i don't have a plan for my future, he's nervous and i can see it. He starts talking about 'our future' and it freaks me out because i dont even think a WEEK ahead of time.

Anyway yes.
"Speak up" is my mantra.

 

[defragmybrain]

ps. DO i sound like a whining girlfriend? are these legitimate issues or am i being a stickler who shouldn't sweat the small stuff? because as a whole we're rather fine (as long as i do things his way).

pps. when he talks about 'our future' and i tell him that there's nothing to talk about, that we should take it on a smaller scale (i AM invested in him, but i can't think about moving intogether). His response is something like "you should really think about the future more often, its good to have, it scares me that you dont have a plan, its part of growing up...etc". Ouch.

 

[IZthe411]

Okay yeah, the word 'fix' is really demeaning. nobody wants to think their preference is a problem - and nobody wants to be fixed - everyone has preferences for a reason.
I think he is misunderstanding me and taking advantage of the situation by saying "Well you can live by my rules, so what's the problem? Live your way when i'm not around" - thats what i'm sort of afraid of.
Everytime we talk constructively about our issues i always remind him he can speak up about issues he has with me. He never has any, at least never talks about any.

He IS rather big on specifics - What time are you getting here text messages. If i say half hour and end up 40 minutes in he's frustrated. If i don't have a plan for my future, he's nervous and i can see it. He starts talking about 'our future' and it freaks me out because i dont even think a WEEK ahead of time.

Anyway yes.
"Speak up" is my mantra.

Now if he's saying that 'you can live by my rules' statement you have up there, then yes that's a problem. But if that's just a feeling you are getting, You have to discuss that. Even if he tightens up, talk about it. Don't be afraid of his annoyance. He'll respect you for it.

And I'm like him. If you are going to be there in 30 minutes, GET THERE IN 30 MINUTES!!! If you are going to be late, just text me and let me know. Don't text me at 35 minutes and say 5 minutes; text me at 25 minutes and say I'm running late, 15 minutes. LOL. That's just us, as ISTJs. You have to accept that.

You know why he doesn't bring up any issues? Because he probably doesn't have any that are crippling your relationship! Sure you want him to eat that dish he can't pronounce, but he'll live. He'll express his annoyance but he moves on. I think you have to stop being so consumed by it, and get comfortable that your man isn't the most expressive, or go with the flow, but he loves you for who you are.

Now, notice that he asks you about your future, and his comments about your apprent lack of planning for it. That's his specialty- He's the one who plans and wants to help you out by making you aware of doing the same thing. His 'grow up' comments sound harsh on the surface, but is he wrong? I'd be worried too if my girl couldn't express her plans to me, almost like you have no direction. I'm sure you have some plans, but they aren't big and aggressive. If you don't have them formulated, it would be good to form some real loose ones and have them in your back pocket at all times. He'll probably want more specifics on them, but it's better to have a starting point instead of giving him this face.

I wouldn't see you as a nag if you aren't bringing this up too frequently. It's something that troubles you, but he has the responsibility to address them, and you have to understand where he's coming from, I mean REALLY understand the guy, and don't expect him to drastically change who he is, especially if he doesn't expect the same from you.

PS- Why did you say, you don't need him?

 

[defragmybrain]

Now if he's saying that 'you can live by my rules' statement you have up there, then yes that's a problem. But if that's just a feeling you are getting, You have to discuss that. Even if he tightens up, talk about it. Don't be afraid of his annoyance. He'll respect you for it.

And I'm like him. If you are going to be there in 30 minutes, GET THERE IN 30 MINUTES!!! If you are going to be late, just text me and let me know. Don't text me at 35 minutes and say 5 minutes; text me at 25 minutes and say I'm running late, 15 minutes. LOL. That's just us, as ISTJs. You have to accept that.

You know why he doesn't bring up any issues? Because he probably doesn't have any that are crippling your relationship! Sure you want him to eat that dish he can't pronounce, but he'll live. He'll express his annoyance but he moves on. I think you have to stop being so consumed by it, and get comfortable that your man isn't the most expressive, or go with the flow, but he loves you for who you are.

Now, notice that he asks you about your future, and his comments about your apprent lack of planning for it. That's his specialty- He's the one who plans and wants to help you out by making you aware of doing the same thing. His 'grow up' comments sound harsh on the surface, but is he wrong? I'd be worried too if my girl couldn't express her plans to me, almost like you have no direction. I'm sure you have some plans, but they aren't big and aggressive. If you don't have them formulated, it would be good to form some real loose ones and have them in your back pocket at all times. He'll probably want more specifics on them, but it's better to have a starting point instead of giving him this face.

I wouldn't see you as a nag if you aren't bringing this up too frequently. It's something that troubles you, but he has the responsibility to address them, and you have to understand where he's coming from, I mean REALLY understand the guy, and don't expect him to drastically change who he is, especially if he doesn't expect the same from you.

PS- Why did you say, you don't need him?

the "grow up" comment really hurt. ESFP takes offense so easy (i'm not even going to get into his taking offense... thats a whole other enchilada). I don't show it but internally i'm like - OW! You sayin' i'm immature? That I haven't/won't grow up? ..Gee. Thanks.

My future is primarily dictated by school - so its not something i think about right now. Its a pretty standard pattern that everybody follows - go to class. Get BS. Work 5 years. Get Masters. But when he puts himself into that formula, I dont even know where to put him. All i know is that i'm not dropping my world for him.

I AM rather consumed by this rigidness because it occurs in EVERY single action of his life. I can't avoid it or ignore it. Even if i don't mention it, it's there, and i'm noticing it, and i can't stop almost chuckling how anal retentive everything is. Maybe it takes more time to get used to because in this regard we are complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Explaining why I don't need him is probably off topic. But i guess to briefly put it, in my last relationship i was head over heels for an INTP. Quiet, mysterious, cynical - meets me - even probably further away from the spectrum than this ISTJ. Anyway i loved him, and he dropped me. I've never loved so hard... then randomly fell into this relationship almost by accident, and in the year we're together, never had this epic soul-quenching passion for him. Perhaps after the shock of the first relationship, this one is expected to be a little less dramatic. I don't think I love him.. but how can i tell? If i walk away from him i'll begin to miss him. Where is that line, when you need someone vs. just simply caring for someone because you're used to them? I don't think i'm being dishonest, i just keep assuming it'll come to me or that the relationship needs more time and collective experience to see where it stands. You'd think a year would be enough - but it's not.
This slight detachment is kind of thrilling to me.

Because of my semi short-sighted present minded way of living, many of my friends are surprised I haven't left him or cheated on him because i like 'variety' and 'change'. But here i am stickin' it out.
Heh RANT RANT RANT. Sorry.

 

[simpleamazement]

ISTJs..

What are your thoughts on ESFP's as romantic partners? If you've never had one, what would your perceptions/doubts/worries of that type of person be?

He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food

I'm an eccentric, loud, Russian born ball of chaos. I like variety.How do i find a common ground with him?

How do i fix this??

Anyway, rambling.
In general I love the ISTJ.
<3 Thoughts?

Whoa, let's try and answer this one at a time!

K, my thoughts on an ESFP romantic partner? Well they can be annoying, but if she has her shyt together then it will probably work out better...yeah. But like that's REALLY gonna happen. Especially with a world with an abundance of temptation! With their A.D.D., they're unlikely to see the calm, stable ISTJ, as a suitable partner because she's out messing around, aka having fun with the other SP's. I would love to have an healthy ESFP partner, but that's like asking for a winning lottery ticket.

He lives in his bubble? Well that sucks. I hope he realizes that it's good to explore his horizons.

Finding a common ground? Fixing this? Honestly, he must realize that love is not a one-sided deal. He must compromise. He must realize that a healthy relationship is give-and-take.

ps. DO i sound like a whining girlfriend? are these legitimate issues or am i being a stickler who shouldn't sweat the small stuff? because as a whole we're rather fine (as long as i do things his way).

pps. when he talks about 'our future' and i tell him that there's nothing to talk about, that we should take it on a smaller scale (i AM invested in him, but i can't think about moving intogether). His response is something like "you should really think about the future more often, its good to have, it scares me that you dont have a plan, its part of growing up...etc". Ouch.

Yes, you do sound like a whining girlfriend, but these ARE legitimate issues. And I know he is insecure, he wants the safety cushion that tells his ego that you will always be there for him...aka 'your future'. Did that help, fiesty redhead?