Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
You said above that the only part of MBTI you use is the code. So I take it you don't get much into cognitive dynamics. I'm trying to remember if you're one of the people who has criticized or dismissed it in past discussions when I've mentioned it.
But I think that is the perfect explanation of what is going on here.
Categorization based on purely logical things (with people treated as things, rather than "unique individuals") is associated with Ti. To a dominant Fi type, Ti is the 8th function (not in strength, but in the ego's ranking order), paired by Beebe with Jung's "demon" archetype. IT can even come off as evil, because it is so opposed to their dominant, or "heroic" system of personal classification. Their preferred world of judgment is internal. They have rejected logical considerations from that world, and chose values instead (and will turn to the outside world when they need logical considerations; hence using it's lack of "empirical" credibility to put it down). You've likewise rejected values from the internal world, and chosen logic, (and will turn to the outside world for values; hence addressing this publicly).
I myself had the same problem, when I was in the process of learning all this stuff (ironically), and had stumbled into a heavy Fi environment, that would listen to "experts" discuss type theory, but not want to hear it from anyone else, unless it was strictly how it applied personally.
You can clearly see the root of the clash in these responses:
You're dealing after all with people, not facts and therefore feelings will be hurt if you go about it the same way. I've had plenty people asking me to make a judgement on them, tell them who they are a such. I refuse to do so till I've tested and retested, till I find that I actually am unlikely to have missed anything (in the field they're asking about).
I postpone judgement on people as long as I can for this very reason. Of course I keep the impressions they've made in the back of my mind and work with them, i'd be foolish not to. But I keep in mind I might just not know what their motivation for it. And therefore, before I know that motivation, I do *not* judge. I also find that once I know it, I often have no reason to judge, 90 percent of the time *because* I understand so well where they're coming from at that point.
I myself have no problem being judged by others, on one condition: that they've shown clearly that they understand how and why I do things. That there is no miscommunication there. If after that, you still disagree with my behavior, I will gladly accept that and accomodate you, and have no qualms with your judgement on that. But before that happens, your half-assed judgement is going to make me roll my eyes and annoy the shit out of me. And unfortunately I have a need to make myself understood, which leads to frustration when the other won't even hear me.
That, to me, is the root of these Fi-threads and is the thing that gives me just a massive head ache (and I am talking about both sides now, not just Ti-users, but also Fi-users getting baited in tossing out untested conclusions about others though I understand better where that comes from).
It screams incompetence to me and I have no patience for people who claim to know stuff when their conclusions smell of half-assing it, especially when it comes to people as it is such a delicate field. Add to that the arrogance of claiming that you (=general you) know me so well you don't even have to listen to where I think you might be wrong and I'm done with you. Sounds fair?
You can see that the Fi even works basically the same way as Ti, by breaking things down to their base parts, retesting the model it forms, etc. The difference is that for Fi, those parts will be the "personal" elements she mentions, to understand the person better, and categorize according to things such as emotions; where Ti will break down the theory into its parts, to understand it better, and then use it to categorize the people. This is seen by them as cold and impersonal. For us, we don't usually seem to react to the personal scrutiny quite they way they react, but instead seem to brush it off more; perhaps as "irrelevant".
So instead, you're reacting to their reaction, which is their heroic Fi trying to slay the Ti demon. Fi, to your type, is the 7th place "trickster", which is the "bad child" complex. And that's exactly how you're reacting to them. Like these "bad children" disrupting the forum, "whining" (as you call it; a definite allusion to scolding a child) about MBTI, and then "parenting" these children with your Thinking, (and complaining back, with your own "childlike" Fe).
Overall, many Fi users will overlook the impersonal categorization and enjoy the personal reflection the theory provides. Victor and now Tater; I'm not sure where exactly they're coming from, or what they want in all of this.
I actually think this is true of all types. Even Fi types probably find Fi behaviors of other Fi's annoying!
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