[ENTP] Dealing / Interacting with ESTPs

[messijo]

In many ways I get on well with ESTPs - great banter, fast pace of interaction, they seem able to keep up with the stream of ideas and silly stuff (if relatively grounded in reality).

However......there are a few I have to interact with professionally and struggle a little. They are more.. "overbearing"? than I am, more in the moment and ultimately get their ideas heard ahead of mine, I guess because they seem more concrete to others. Part of the struggle is the "mystical" iNtuitive sense of how things will play out, people's motivations, how things appear to others, etc. Ultimately I feel more distanced from tje everyday than them.

So.. Is this a common thing for entp/estp interactions? And how can I prevail in these situations more?

 

[Betty Blue]

I'd hazard a guess that competition between the two types can be pretty fierce. ESTP's usually are very tactical and sociably are pretty unafraid to air what they want. The are good at demanding attention and loyalty of people. I can see how it would upset an ENTP who may be considered more kooky in a work environment than commanding. I suppose it depends what you want to get ahead with? Fi can get estp's a bit twisted at times but you have weak fi. ENTP's are probably have better interpersonal people skills than estp's though. You can probably make it work differently depending on who you are dealing with. If it's just the estp you want to impress then idk... let them think they have one over on you, it will make life easier just keep your boundaries up and don't get sucked in.

 

[messijo]

Thanks so much for this [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION], it's exactly that... a kind of "rivalry" between the types. Not helpful if the ESTP outranks me (or is my direct boss, as has been the case). (I mean that the situation isn't helpful, not your response, obviously!)

Sometimes I feel like I can see "how things will pan out" or get the "real" gist of a situation without much concrete evidence and that drives the ESTP crazy; but in retrospect I'm most often right (but then they have moved on to other things, of course). I don't experience it as "mystical" but others do.

In my experience it's dangerous to passively let them think they have "bested" you as they will often just take the credit, although it's very tempting when I can see ("mystically") that the thing will fail, to sit back and let them fail. Passive aggressive isn't really my MO but is oh so tempting!

 

[iWin]

In my experience:

ESTPs cannot resist going head-to-head in argument with an ENTP. That's their weakness against us because they cannot win; no doubt, ESTPs will have good arguments, but ESTPs don't go deep enough, and eventually the ENTP wins on a coup de grace point. The ESTP's strength is asserting facts that are relevant; ENTP's counter is discussing the relevance of the facts to the problem.

To win, figure out the coup de grace before the dispute plays out in front of others, and rush the conversation to it (as in like, 2-3 sentences when it's your turn to talk, perhaps even raising the facts ESTP has stocked up to point out). You'll win. The ESTP won't know what to say and is incapable of preparing for it.

 

[iWin]

To add:

If the ESTP is your boss, do not do argue to win; argue to make sure he/she doesn't blame you for missed points, but each tim you do it, they'll just get more competitive with you. A boss holds the ultimate weapon: you're fired! (But remember that you're insanely valuable to any company, so don't be sheepish).

Instead, with an ESTP boss, it's much easier to play the teammate against another group -- safe to make the enemy another company or something. ESTP and ENTPs are natural buds. Get over the competitive streak, and it's an easy and fun relationship to sustain.

Good luck!

 

[Forever_Jung]

To add:

If the ESTP is your boss, do not do argue to win; argue to make sure he/she doesn't blame you for missed points, but each tim you do it, they'll just get more competitive with you. A boss holds the ultimate weapon: you're fired! (But remember that you're insanely valuable to any company, so don't be sheepish).

Instead, with an ESTP boss, it's much easier to play the teammate against another group -- safe to make the enemy another company or something. ESTP and ENTPs are natural buds. Get over the competitive streak, and it's an easy and fun relationship to sustain.

Good luck!

This isn't bad advice. I have an ESTP boss, and it took me a couple years to give up the constant dueling. She would never fire me, but it sure didn't get me anywhere professionally either, which bruised my ego over time. Since I stopped trying to "win" and decided to play on her team, things have gone great.

Now I have a mentor instead of an adversary, and I can still say just about whatever I want, ESTP bosses are a nice combo of informality and competence.

ESTP's often enjoy adversarial relationships because they are all so damn competitive, but I think they are a bit more direct than ENTP's, intellectually. I am all over the place

 

[Mr Troll]

Yes, ESTps as Betas are into team playing. Where as alphas like ENTps think that whole universe is the team... [socionics]
and because the team is so large and there is no opponent therefore there is no need to push.