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[ENFP] enfps are evil

C.J.Woolf

respect the brick
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
424
MBTI Type
INTP
ENFPs are widely acknowledged as the most evil, by INTJs. :p

Oh, I know our brand of evil. It's skilled in creating chaos, and clumsy in achieving an end, like Godzilla in the Tokyo of those who give us goodwill.

I like that analogy. INTJ evil, on the other hand, has surgical precision.
 

ScareBear

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sx/sp
So it is concluded, ENFPs are sparkly monsters who attack you with their cheer?

I could handle this better than being a sparkly vampire :p
For some reason I envision Art from Monsters University. He would definitely represent the sparkly monster who would attack you with his cheer.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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once upon a time I thought working with 75% enfps was like a magical adventure. After four years I have seen every possible version of evil behavior we can exhibit... I have seen my own evil that I simply never admitted.

:hug:

I think I've told you this story before, but it bears repeating. Many years ago, when I'd first started investigating typology (and had started dancing), I spotted a long-time dancer who was clearly INTJ. I went up to him and asked him how long he had been dancing, looking to start a conversation. He replied, "about 2 years" and then turned away from me, totally blowing me off. Initially I was insulted, but then I realized something that was kind of world-changing for me.

I do that! I blow people off like that all the time.

Shit!

From that time on, I have resolved to not do that. Not because it's "evil", but because it's uncaring. Because it's hurtful. The thing is that it's unintentionally hurtful. Part of my realization was that that other INTJ didn't MEAN to blow me off at all. He just had nothing further to say, therefore there was no need to expend more energy on the interaction. I have had that same attitude.

What you are talking about in the post above is very much the same kind of thing. Seeing other ENFPs behave badly has revealed things about yourself. This is one of the most awesome features of typology, if you want to take advantage of it.

observations of our obliviousness or unwillingness to accept what we can truly be?

ENFPs believe in their inherent goodness. They thrive on positive emotional energy. They strive to make the world around them a better place. Of the 16 types, they're the crusaders. They fight for the good. They've seen the darkness in the world (so much darkness) and want to remove it. All of this is true. I've seen this in you, Oro, over and over again. It makes you shine.

There's a hidden problem, though. It's hidden because you all shine so brightly, trying to bring hope and love into the world. Like every normal human being, you want that hope and love on your terms.

how can we be both so innocent and so destructive?

Because that's the irony of "fighting" for the "good". Love and hope require an open heart, open even towards that which is evil. But when on a crusade, when an ENFP has decided that something is evil and needs to be fought, the usually open ENFP heart closes completely. The target has been identified. The target must be destroyed. The target is evil, so any arguments in its favor are necessarily false. So the ENFP throws out the baby with the bathwater.

I've seen this blindness in many ENFPs in real life. It isn't that their concerns aren't real or genuine, but rather that having chosen a side, the other side is automatically wrong. They lose sight of the good in other people that is always there. They make negative character observations of people who disagree with their agenda. They become blind to good ideas that appear to conflict with their personal agenda of goodness. My main point here is that an ENFP can genuinely be trying really hard to do good things, but be so fixated on that vision that alternate good things are either not important or even "evil". Other's ideas of what is "good" can be dismissed as "selfish".

This happens even on the small scale. Not all ENFP crusades are grand plans implemented on a large scale. Sometimes it's just something fun they want to do, to make people happy. The same blindness can kick in, and petty conflicts arise because the ENFP takes a disagreement (or worse, being told not to do something) personally, rather than as information to absorb and figure out an alternative.

Overall, it would appear to be linked to stress. ENFPs are normally attentive to the content of the hearts around them, see the good in everyone, and easily adapt to new information and alternatives. (Ne doms love new information, and Fi can't help but be aware of others' hearts.) When stress hits, however, there is a strong desire to return to those happy feelings of connectedness and wonder at the world. Te and Si kick in. What was originally an open-minded vision becomes a single-minded goal of getting what one wants.

But you've looked in that ENFP mirror, now, and you see that, just as I looked into the INTJ mirror and saw a dark vision of myself. It's very possible to resolve not to do that. Once you know what the pattern looks like, you can take it and use it. You just say, I'm not going to be like that. The hard part is identifying that one spot in your heart: there's a part of you (as there is in me) that is absolutely certain that your normal behavior is entirely reasonable. That's your blind spot, and it's very easy to miss. In my case, I resolved to not blow people off, to spend the time and energy to pay attention to them, even if they're as boring as hell. (Though the boring as hell people don't get THAT much more attention, but I treat them as kindly as I can manage.) In your case, you'll need to figure that out for yourself. You are the one looking in the mirror at your blind spot. Whatever I might suggest will likely be off, as these things tend not to have precise words to describe them. I'd say, however, just look at what shames you about what you see, and figure out what consistent habit might best change that for you.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103


psst...

 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
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How ironic that Conflicting types would both play the part of villain.


Bad guys fight each other,
which allows the good guys to take care of them more efficiently.

Unless the bad guys team up as part of a League Of Shadows.....

Of course, sometimes the heroes of a story wear black, too. Like Batman, Catwoman, Jon Snow and Luke Skywalker. Not the heroes we need, but the heroes we deserve.

I guess it depends on your point of view.
 

MattL

New member
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Apr 28, 2015
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11
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INFP
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4w3
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sp
I have a friend who is an ENFP, and one who is an ESTJ. Alone, we're nothing. But together, we're unstoppable >:D
 

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Peacebaby and uumlau, as always have much wise thoughts. In the last week I have seen more evil enfp behavior that I can imagine. I had an entire team of young engineers-simply babies-told they were "dumbasses" and "stupid" by an executive level CFO, an sx/so enfp. His goal was to ridicule me, but instead he inadvertently ridiculed them. he simply could not accept the fact that we cant do one years worth of work in four months.

These "enfps are fluffy butterfly" stories are myths told to keep other types, especially INTJs, happy. In reality,many enfps are trained out of that fairly young as careers dont value caring-thus adopt very heavy Te behaviorisms, but tempered by a very ugly Fi defensive reactions, Its got a lot of ugly to it.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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Peacebaby and uumlau, as always have much wise thoughts. In the last week I have seen more evil enfp behavior that I can imagine. I had an entire team of young engineers-simply babies-told they were "dumbasses" and "stupid" by an executive level CFO, an sx/so enfp. His goal was to ridicule me, but instead he inadvertently ridiculed them. he simply could not accept the fact that we cant do one years worth of work in four months.

These "enfps are fluffy butterfly" stories are myths told to keep other types, especially INTJs, happy. In reality,many enfps are trained out of that fairly young as careers dont value caring-thus adopt very heavy Te behaviorisms, but tempered by a very ugly Fi defensive reactions, Its got a lot of ugly to it.

Oro's thoughts also contain much wisdom. :)



For reference, it helps to remember that Che Guevara and Charles Manson are frequently typed as ENFPs. Even if the typing isn't correct, the overall point that ENFPs aren't all fluffy butterfly unicorn bunnies is apt. Ne and Fi aren't inherently "good", they're just sensitive to overall human feelings, and can act on them in both positive and negative ways.

After that, it isn't personality that makes a difference. It's choice. One can choose to be an ass (even a murderous ass, as the examples I provide), or to be an example of how to do things right. Some ENFPs choose the negative path, and others choose the positive path of inspiring people to work together, to aspire to become more than they were before.
 

Qlip

Post Human Post
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8,464
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I have a friend who is an ENFP, and one who is an ESTJ. Alone, we're nothing. But together, we're unstoppable >:D

I've got an INFP 4w3 sp friend, when we're together we make bad, interesting, decisions.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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Ne and Fi aren't inherently "good", they're just sensitive to overall human feelings, and can act on them in both positive and negative ways.

After that, it isn't personality that makes a difference. It's choice. One can choose to be an ass (even a murderous ass, as the examples I provide), or to be an example of how to do things right. Some ENFPs choose the negative path, and others choose the positive path of inspiring people to work together, to aspire to become more than they were before.

Yes, this is a point I've wanted to make in another context - another thread where it was implied that I (and others disagreeing) were in denial about the dark side of INFP. No, I see it clear enough, it's that I make a choice, I make a choice each day to aim to follow the positive path, and in that, still am aware that I could inadvertently be causing problems and hurting other people, or consciously fall away from my choice.

It's a good point and one not made nearly enough.
 

Seymour

Vaguely Precise
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Yes, this is a point I've wanted to make in another context - another thread where it was implied that I (and others disagreeing) were in denial about the dark side of INFP. No, I see it clear enough, it's that I make a choice, I make a choice each day to aim to follow the positive path, and in that, still am aware that I could inadvertently be causing problems and hurting other people, or consciously fall away from my choice.

It's a good point and one not made nearly enough.

Agreed. An NFP going for the throat can be a scary thing, since all the personal insight and sensitivity can be used to manipulate or inflict maximal pain. It's not pretty.
 

aanule

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Apr 12, 2015
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190
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Agreed. An NFP going for the throat can be a scary thing, since all the personal insight and sensitivity can be used to manipulate or inflict maximal pain. It's not pretty.

I just don't feel that I'm capable of doing that. Years of cheating, emotional, verbal and mental abuse, continuing abuse and attempted manipulation... And I still can't bring myself to be hateful towards my ex. It's not for love, that ran out a long time ago... It's just my moral base to not be spiteful. So, maybe depends on individual moral compass?
 

Seymour

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I just don't feel that I'm capable of doing that. Years of cheating, emotional, verbal and mental abuse, continuing abuse and attempted manipulation... And I still can't bring myself to be hateful towards my ex. It's not for love, that ran out a long time ago... It's just my moral base to not be spiteful. So, maybe depends on individual moral compass?

Well, I do my best not to do those things, as well. I try to have compassion even for those that have hurt me or with whom I disagree. Still, I'm human, and don't live up to my ideals perfectly 100% of the time. Even though I don't think I'm a spiteful person, I'm aware of having negative emotional reactions and impulses at times. Part of maturing (for me) has been acknowledging and claiming those parts of myself, so that I can better understand and manage those aspects. Anger, aggression, and selfishness aren't just things out there in the world; they are a part of my own nature, as well. That doesn't mean I must feed or act upon those feelings, but they do arise in the moment.

And you, yourself, were your type (in theory) before going through the experiences that shaped your current values. Was the person you were before always incapable of such things? I sometimes manipulated my twin brother when I was a child, and only later resolved to avoid manipulation.

In any case, it's a question whether some individuals of a given type can be spiteful and selfish. The answer to that question is always "yes," human nature being what it is. A given type's strengths can be used for good or ill. I think it can be useful to ponder what one's type is like at its worst, so one can better recognize the signs in oneself.
 

uumlau

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I just don't feel that I'm capable of doing that. Years of cheating, emotional, verbal and mental abuse, continuing abuse and attempted manipulation... And I still can't bring myself to be hateful towards my ex. It's not for love, that ran out a long time ago... It's just my moral base to not be spiteful. So, maybe depends on individual moral compass?

No, not moral compass. That's the essence of Oro's observation, her self-observation. She saw those ENFPs doing bad things, then, with a sincere sense of disappointment and regret, realized that she did those things, too. That's why I brought up my own self-observation w/r to INTJ behaviors: I was doing things that I didn't perceive as bad, but from an outside viewpoint, I do perceive as bad.

The takeaway for NFPs is that being idealistic isn't enough. You have to be mindful of the effects and consequences of the pursuit of your ideals. This is not an easy thing to do, for anyone of any type. As a starting point of what to look for, think in terms of unintended consequences.

BTW, it does reflect well on you that you can't bring yourself to be hateful towards your ex. But that's not the only way you can unintentionally do wrong.
 
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