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  1. #51
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    FP: I've been feeling bad lately.
    TJ: How so?
    FP: I dunno.
    TJ: What do you mean, "I dunno"?
    FP: Maybe we should just talk about something else.
    TJ: Okay.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #52
    Senior Member nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Now, to confuse matters further: what about the idea of color where there is no light. Is a blue hat blue in a dark room? How about in a room filled with red light? The fabric of the hat still contains pigments that reflect blue and absorb other colors, so in that sense, it is still fair to call it a blue hat, but with no blue photons to be reflected, it will look black.
    That is a ridiculous question. Is the definition of colour not the wavelength of EM radiation that is reflected off a surface, given that a wide spectrum composing visible light, is shone on it? In a dark room, if there is no light source that means that the question "what is the colour of x" is meaningless. Of course, if you were to shine a specific wavelength of light it would be perceived differently, but is that the definition of "colour"? A similar example would be a solution that is perceived to be colourless when white light is shone on it, but fluoresces green when you shine UV light on it. Does that mean that the solution is green in colour? Or is it colourless? It all depends on your definition and how precise you want to be.

    *edited to add: That is if we're talking "colour" in a traditional, definable sense. If we're talking memory and perception, then I'd like to inquire about whether certain tones truly have "colours" as perceived by synesthetes. Is that considered "real" colour since it is obviously outside the range of EM radiation but is still perceivable - granted, by another "non-traditional" organ?

    (sorry to further derail the thread.)

  3. #53
    Member Talisyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post

    (sorry to further derail the thread.)
    How is it derailed? This is a perfect example of an INFP INTJ conversation!
    I want to be alive To all the life that is in me now, to know each moment to the uttermost.
    (Khalil Gibran from Mary Haskell's Journal June 7, 1912.)

    "I'd rather die than live without Mercy and Love" - House of Heroes, Code Name Raven


    "I write/Slowly at first/Then the words come quicker/Slow in comparison/To my rapid thoughts/I fall silent/In awe of love"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #54
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    The Infp brings up a thought and we expound upon it. It's how things get done. Yes?

  5. #55
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Take a color theory class, people
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #56
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    That is a ridiculous question. Is the definition of colour not the wavelength of EM radiation that is reflected off a surface, given that a wide spectrum composing visible light, is shone on it? In a dark room, if there is no light source that means that the question "what is the colour of x" is meaningless. Of course, if you were to shine a specific wavelength of light it would be perceived differently, but is that the definition of "colour"? A similar example would be a solution that is perceived to be colourless when white light is shone on it, but fluoresces green when you shine UV light on it. Does that mean that the solution is green in colour? Or is it colourless? It all depends on your definition and how precise you want to be.
    A ridiculous question? In some ways. You are correct from a scientific perspective in equating color with wavelength, meaning no light -- no color. It can make perfect sense if one uses the layman's interpretation of color, however, which considers color essentially a property of the material. For instance, I can ask someone, "bring me the blue bowl", and provided they have sufficient other cues (size, texture, knowledge of its location), they can do so even if the room it's in is dark. In this way, color is still a valid identifier, even when it cannot be seen. To extend this logic (or lack thereof), consider buying a can of paint. Since paint cans are typically hammered shut at the store after mixing (no photons in or out), the paint inside has no color until opened at home?! But we still will describe what we bought as "a can of x-color paint"; not "a can of paint that will be x-color when exposed to white light".

  7. #57
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    For instance, I can ask someone, "bring me the blue bowl", and provided they have sufficient other cues (size, texture, knowledge of its location), they can do so even if the room it's in is dark. In this way, color is still a valid identifier, even when it cannot be seen.
    What if there is more than one blue bowl on that dark room? And, what if that second bowl was a different size and shape? What if there was a green bowl that was exactly similar to the blue bowl you requested? Oh my.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  8. #58
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    When colour is involved as a property of an object it is really the photo absorbtion/reflection/emission properties of an object that don't change. Those are the properties that cause it to look such a colour in the presence of light. So, my answer to is there colour in the dark, I say no, just the absorbtion/reflection properties.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #59
    Junior Member onelovelylove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    FP: I've been feeling bad lately.
    TJ: How so?
    FP: I dunno.
    TJ: What do you mean, "I dunno"?
    FP: Maybe we should just talk about something else.
    TJ: Okay.
    ^ This, all the time.

  10. #60
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    The color conversation is amazing since I've had it about 15 year ago when I was a teenager. It was with another NFP so it was a very fun conversation.

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