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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powehi View Post
    If we exist as past, present, future states of self only as perceived in linear progressions of time as non-existence, existence, death. What if time is not linear and we are in this moment both existing and non-existing and will always be, have always been in this state? What if change in condition of life or death is viewing one fragment or another of the constant whole? What if it's casting a shadow from different sides of the same constant?

    That state that you are describing, kind of one outside of "time", is what I understand as the divinity and God, perhaps the "church ascendant", ie angels and saints too but I am not even sure about that myself.

    I am a Christian/RC believer but in the main I believe in the idea of the Buddhist or Hindu "pure land" religions which have the majority of people experiencing a kind of "quantum immortality" and reincarnation perpetually, only I would call this state "purgatory". Its got to do with "sin" but not as most of its secular critics understand it but as Eckhart or the mystics did which has real parallels with buddhist ideas about attachment to worldliness.

    The fear of death I dont think is entirely about fear of pain, fear of disembodiment, dissolution, nothingness, as all those things, in theory, are experienced during sleep, drunkenness, narcotic or anesthetic sedation, those "little deaths" or if you consider philosophically, the thousands of years of your "pre-birth existence" (to reference Schopenhauer).

    I think it is to do with not being "satiated" with life, not having had enough of it, this is a kind of radical life affirming understanding of worldliness, since I do think that creation was/is a gift from God. The final judgements posited in allegory or story from the Jewish traditions in which recording angels or God asks the newly perished soul why they didnt bother with all the joys, rewards, good things in life make sense. I've read about near death experiences in which people approach death and someone or something asks them "what about..." someone or something of a worldly character and "zip" they're back like they just hit up "continue" on the "game over" screen.
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  2. #282
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    In the previous post, I looked for sentence in the Bible and Koran in which I could find the word prophet that is to be understood as spokesperson. This time I looked for sentence in the bible in which a word prophet which is to be understood as person who foretells future event. I have found Jeremiah Ch.28:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah Ch. 28:5-6 English Translation
    And Jeremiah the prophet said to Hananiah the prophet before the eyes of the priests and before the eyes of all the people standing in the house of the Lord.
    And Jeremiah the prophet said, "Amen! So may the Lord do. May the Lord fulfill your words that you have prophesied, to return the vessels of the house of the Lord and all the exile from Babylon to this place.
    source
    in this Jeremiah Ch 28:5-6, prophet [Hananiah] means someone who foretells the underlined future event. Prophet in this sentence can't be understood as spokesperson.

  3. #283
    To the waters of the wild Siúil a Rún's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever tried to talk someone out of their religious beliefs and have even seen the value of the strong social groups it creates. People have more tendency to help each other survive when they share an identity and paradigm of reality.

    What troubles me about most religions is the relationship to authority it establishes. It often places a human being in the position of infallible source of truth, whether it is the Pope, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Hare Krishna, the Reverend Moon, etc. This relationship is the same as the toddler to parent who needs to respond to the parent as infallible in order to help survival, since the toddler does not have the capacity to work out survival alone. Developmentally young children see their parents as infallible, and it is helpful during that stage of life.

    Religions tend to revert thinking back to that developmental stage. Arrested development is complex because it is never entirely manifested, but combines with differing levels of development. When this element of infallibility of authority is present, this is what infantilizes the populations, allowing them to respond to other authority without question. This enable political leaders to make declarations, as wildly false as they want, and there are people who embrace it without question. This needs to stop.

    I realize that many religiously minded people are very philosophical and critical thinkers, but this foundational acceptance of a source of ideas from another human is a pervasive problem. The underlying assumptions must be questioned in order for full thinking to occur.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powehi View Post
    I don't think I've ever tried to talk someone out of their religious beliefs and have even seen the value of the strong social groups it creates. People have more tendency to help each other survive when they share an identity and paradigm of reality.

    What troubles me about most religions is the relationship to authority it establishes. It often places a human being in the position of infallible source of truth, whether it is the Pope, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Hare Krishna, the Reverend Moon, etc. This relationship is the same as the toddler to parent who needs to respond to the parent as infallible in order to help survival, since the toddler does not have the capacity to work out survival alone. Developmentally young children see their parents as infallible, and it is helpful during that stage of life.

    Religions tend to revert thinking back to that developmental stage. Arrested development is complex because it is never entirely manifested, but combines with differing levels of development. When this element of infallibility of authority is present, this is what infantilizes the populations, allowing them to respond to other authority without question. This enable political leaders to make declarations, as wildly false as they want, and there are people who embrace it without question. This needs to stop.

    I realize that many religiously minded people are very philosophical and critical thinkers, but this foundational acceptance of a source of ideas from another human is a pervasive problem. The underlying assumptions must be questioned in order for full thinking to occur.
    Keep in mind to many fundamentalist, I am a heretic. XD But I sort of disagree with the assessment at the root. That is ingrained in the way though churches want people to obey and be compliant, but that is also why I disliked many churches.

    God gave us gifts, abilities, knowledge, sense, etc. in order to survive on our own. It seems to me a very flawed relationship with God if you feel you need an infallible master to survive. I go to God if I so desire something of His word. Jesus was just God incarnated on earth, with a divine nature, hence He could survive not doing earthly things we must do all the time. Nevertheless, I think God created us out of love and merely wants a loving relationship with us. I suppose I best found my peace with God when I imagined God as more like your best friend rather than your parent - you don't always listen but you always talk to them and you have this very strong relationship with them. Trust. Care. that kind of thing. Although for many, God can be a softening replacement for neglectful parents (i.e. my mother put God in the place of her absent mother and as an escape from a very abusive place, and that's been her peace.) I don't think at least anyone here has ever seen God as the "necessity" to survival but more tried to grasp Him and what He means for our existence. I think we all have some great purpose we are here for which God is watching us fulfill. And He's a listening ear along the way and so on.

    but perhaps my thinking is weird.


    After all,
    How can you run from what is inside of you?

  5. #285
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    My former co associate in brokerage (ENFJ) that I discussed prophecy with may understand prophet in the sense of person who foretells future event. In fact He is the first person who taught me the definition of prophecy in that sense. But he seemed not to understand prophet also in the sense of spokesperson. I remember overhearing He said God said this and that with my former principal, while what it was probably only the word of him not the word of God.

    Having learnt that prophet means spokesperson also, I wonder Whether he thought himself a spokesperson of God? As far as I remember He even said that Abraham was not a prophet, probably since He can't tell future event that Abraham foretold.
    Last edited by typologyenthusiast; 11-07-2020 at 03:12 AM.

  6. #286
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    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...


  7. #287
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    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...


  8. #288
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    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...


  9. #289
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    Are ghosts just left over atoms lost in the timeline like glitches if you could say that?

  10. #290
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    Bible: "I gave people free will."
    Also Bible: "I'm punishing everyone who isn't Adam and Eve for doing what Adam and Eve chose, which was not a choice that billions of people made."
    Also Bible: "I'm all-powerful and would be able to give each person this choice if I wanted to."

    Bible: "I want everyone to believe, but I'm going to make it really hard to believe."

    OK, buddy. Sure.

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