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  1. #41
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    If you're looking up my sources you should definitely read Truth Triumphant.

  2. #42
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    The Astartes/Blood Angels/Sons of Sanguinus did all they could to defend Baal from the Tyranids but Cadia had been over run by Chaos and reinforcements could not reach them in time.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    The Astartes/Blood Angels/Sons of Sanguinus did all they could to defend Baal from the Tyranids but Cadia had been over run by Chaos and reinforcements could not reach them in time.
    Thank you for that.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huldah View Post
    If you're looking up my sources you should definitely read Truth Triumphant.
    Thank you. Anymore sources?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Thank you. Anymore sources?
    This is how the match works.

    She provided numerous quotes from the bible stating/indicating that Jesus and God are distinct. (father and son, whatever they call it).

    Now it's your turn to provide quotes from the bible stating/indicating that Jesus, god and holy spirit are three in one (and/or recasts the quotes she posted).

    Else you lose by default. As well, I think you have the burden of persuasion here to explain just how worshipping a trinity isn't polytheistic.
    Likes Huldah liked this post

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    I'm not in the habit of slangin Bible verses, but here's some KJV.

    Although, not the same archdiocese, this is the explanation provided by my Church. The Holy Trinity is a Mystery, which I know atheists absolutely hate. We're expected to know the unknowable simply because we acknowledge the unknowable. That's what the Trinity is, and the difference between the Eastern-Western Christianity.

    Anything else is Sola Scriptura/Sola Fide, which is a Protestant habit. It is why I wasn't surprised when the OPs crosshairs were focused on the RCC, the arch-nemesis of Protestantism.
    Thanks. This reminds me of that response Donald Rumsfeld gave about the "known knowns" and "known unknowns." Obviously falling back on it as a mystery does not satisfy that burden, but I credit you for not trying to disguise it with an intellectual platitude.

    I don't accept anybody as an atheist until they are an atheist with a gun to their head. To me, it's like when somebody calls themselves a gangster. It's one of those labels you don't get credit for by simply by referring to yourself as it...like these rappers that call themselves gangsters but, as eazy e said, used to do dance music before they became "hard." In other words, they have to have certain life/death credentials (having stared into the jaws of death). An "atheist" who converts to God on his deathbed was probably never a true atheist imo., just confused. They were "atheists" when they were eggheads sipping cappuccino in a post-modern café pontificating on their atheism from an ivory tower of gibberish but when they had a gun to their head or their daughter got cancer, they now believe in God. Or they were tough mafia guys when they were out killing people, but when they are facing twenty years in prison, the rat in them comes out. So I take such claims with a grain of salt until the person can back it up with genuine life/death credentials in the trenches of hard reality (those that can are typically not atheists ime). I can't say I ever met a true one.

    edit: you removed your post. why bother, in real life you don't get to erase what you say like that. once its out its out
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  7. #47
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    John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    The Greek word for Comforter is “paraklētos” and it means an advocate, an intercessor, consoler:—, comforter.

    John said, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (Comforter) [paraklētos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” 1 John 2:1.

    The word used for advocate here is the same Greek word (paraklētos) used in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 for Comforter, but is translated here as advocate. So John tells us outright that our advocate and comforter is “Jesus Christ the righteous.”

    John 14:16 “and he shall give you another Comforter [paraklētos], that he may abide with you for ever;”

    John 14:26 “the Comforter [paraklētos], which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,”

    John 15:26 “when the Comforter [paraklētos] is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father.”

    John 16:7 “for if I go not away, the Comforter [paraklētos] will not come unto you;”

    1 John 2:1 “if any man sin, we have an advocate (Comforter) [paraklētos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

    So the "comforter" is not a separate entity, or third person of a trinity; it's simply Christ.

    “But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6

    Two beings, not three.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The reformers would roll over in their graves if they heard that.
    The reformation is over.

  9. #49
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    Revelation 5:1,6,7

    'And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within Seven Spirits of God and on the backside, sealed with seven seals ... And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.'

    Notice that it is the lamb, which is Christ, who has "seven eyes which are the spirits of God" which is a reference to the Holy Spirit?

    Romans 8:16 “The Spirit ITSELF beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”

    Romans 8:26 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit ITSELF maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

    “truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.” "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 John 1:3, 1 Timothy 2:5

  10. #50
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Thanks. This reminds me of that response Donald Rumsfeld gave about the "known knowns" and "known unknowns." Obviously falling back on it as a mystery does not satisfy that burden, but I credit you for not trying to disguise it with an intellectual platitude.
    Well, that's always been the position of The Church (Orthodox, and to some extent Catholicism), which is that God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is the greatest Mystery. He is The Mystery. If God (Father) could be known, then He is not God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Doubt is as much a part of Christianity as is Faith. Doubt is built into the religion itself. But, I digress:

    God (Father) approaches us through Christ (Son) in a language we can understand, His "Word" or Logos. He is the Son, begotten, not created. An important distinction. The Holy Spirit: The Life-Giving Spirit of God

    The Holy Spirit, as the third person of the Holy Trinity, is equally divine in the same way as the Father and Son. For this reason, he is given the titles ”Lord” and ”Giver of Life” (cf. Rom 8:10) – attributes, which can only properly belong to God and not to created beings. For this reason, as is recited in the Creed, the Holy Spirit is worshipped and glorified together with the Father and the Son. Beyond affirming the divinity of the Holy Spirit, the Church also taught that the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father; yet was sent into the world, within time, by the Son of God to continue the salvific work of God. There is, therefore, an important distinction made in Orthodox theology between the Holy Spirit’s eternal procession and existence, and his temporal mission. That is to say, whereas the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father only, He is sent into the world, in time, through the incarnate Son of God. In particular, the Eastern Orthodox tradition teaches that Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father alone – that is, not from both the Father and the Son as is taught in Western theology with the addition of the filioque [Latin for, ”and from the Son”] in the [Nicean] Creed – whilst, He is sent into the world in time, by the Son.
    (Bolded the distinction between East and West, AFAIK. The Western church teaches that the Holy Spirit comes from Christ, the Son. The East teaches that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father, only. The importance of that detail, I'm still learning.)

    The Holy Trinity is God's Mystery personified. How can One be Three in One and equal to Three and One at the same time? Makes no logical sense does it? Of course not. If God made logical sense, He wouldn't be God. The ultimate Unknown quantity. But, then again, it made logical sense to us at one time that the world is flat.

    It's hard enough to attempt to approach (understand) God's Mystery with that in mind. So difficult that some give up altogether and revert to the claim that God is polytheistic. Moses battled this tendency throughout the OT. It is to place human limitations on God to claim that "Since I, an enlightened Human, can't understand God's mysteries, therefore *insert your favorite assertion about God." It's a bit geocentric to do so.

    I believe what @Huldah is attempting is to simplify God into a known quantity because that is the habit of Literalists. Literalists can't abide the unknown, so they seek to know God through their own subjective filters(Sola scriptura - Wikipedia), which is why she's spitting Bible verses she interprets as supporting her position. God is such a mystery to her that she speaks of Him in the human term of polytheism.

    If I wanted to kill Asians, I bet I could find a reason in the Bible to kill Asians. And that's the problem. Literalists each see themselves as the authority and read the Bible how they wish, individually, instead of collectively with the proper context in mind. Atheists do this, too but that's because Atheists in the US come from a culture of Biblical Literalism. So ingrained into the culture is this Literalism that Atheist do it themselves. [Aside: I think it's particularly cute when Literalists (of both stripes) catch vapors upon learning that the Bible is a compiled and written work by the apostles and church fathers (men). Like the Bible was supposed to have descended to earth from the heavens]. I bet if I read the Bible drunk, high, and sober, I'd come away with different interpretations each time. For this reason, the interpretation is "Peer reviewed" in ecumenical councils, from the beginning.

    Ethiopian eunuch - Wikipedia

    Philip the Evangelist was told by an angel to go to the road from Jerusalem to Gaza, and there he met the Ethiopian eunuch. He had been to Jerusalem to worship (Acts 8:27), and was returning home. The eunuch was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah, and had come to Isaiah 53:7-8. Philip asked the Ethiopian, "Do you understand what you are reading?" He said he did not ("How can I understand unless I have a teacher to teach me?"), and asked Philip to explain the text to him. Philip told him the Gospel of Jesus, and the Ethiopian asked to be baptized. They went down into some water and Philip baptized him.
    The Church is the "Body of Christ." The Church is not "Christ's Arm, Christ's Leg, Christ's Hip, etc." Do you want 30,000+ denominations? Because that's how you get 30,000+ denominations; everyone reading and interpreting the Bible on their own, starting their own churches, all claiming their interpretation is the correct one. The Orthodox Church holds that there is only one correct worship, and it's the one that remains unchanged since Pentacost. "Nothing new, and nothing novel." Not a modern church, and certainly not of this world.



    If the Bible was written in Greek, I'd trust the Greeks to understand the subtleties and context of the scripture and over their own language, than some random in Battle Creek, MI.



    edit: you removed your post. why bother, in real life you don't get to erase what you say like that. once its out its out
    I wasn't satisfied with that post, and this forum is hardly reality.

    In the end, one has to be open to God. If you want God, you'll seek Him on your own. Free will and all that.
    Last edited by Justin of Flavia Neapolis; 01-17-2018 at 11:41 AM.

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