Sensor Support Group

[Poki]

I can't tell if this is directed at me?

Anyway, I've never understood the whole "intuitives are better" thing. I see people, not types, and I'm notoriously awful at typing others in MBTI.

Not directed, just commenting/chatting/adding. What you said just kinda made me think of what i posted. I never understood it either and i grew up with 2 intuitive parents. I just see that they have their strengths and i have mine. They see it the same way as well.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

i'm a sexy sensor.

 

[magpie]

Wow, this got a lot of responses overnight. Thanks [MENTION=23583]yama[/MENTION], [MENTION=27952]Merced[/MENTION], [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION], and [MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION] for writing about your experiences being a sensor.

Most people join this site in order to work out some internal issues having to do with identity, self perception, belonging, etc. I have noticed that when a person who types as N joins this site, there tends to be a more substantial confidence boost than when someone who types as S joins. Time and time again I've observed the social dynamic on this site actually increase the issues of my sensor friends. Many people grow up with some sort of trauma about being stupid, worthless, lesser, or just not good enough the way they are, which is strongly reinforced as true here if you type as S.

Sensors have easy lives, sensors make the lives of intuitives hard, senors are stupid, sensors can't understand patterns or make connections, sensors aren't creative, sensors aren't imaginative sounds a lot like:

"Everything is handed to you in life but you still don't succeed. What's wrong with you? You make my life impossible. You're a negative influence on the world. You're an idiot. You don't understand anything. You are so stupid that you're not even capable of understanding anything I say to you. You are boring and your only use is to mop up the dregs of society with a menial job. You'll never amount to more, and if you do, it's because everything is always handed to you anyway."

That is the attitude a lot of people were met with as kids, and while that attitude is not as abusive or personal on this site, it does act as confirmation that the sensor really is that stupid, that worthless, that inept, etc, therefore actually increasing the problems that the person needs to work through. This doesn't happen with Ns on this site - they aren't met with that and it's easier for them to work through their issues feeling supported and validated by the typological system.

It would be silly to say the issue is just with the social dynamic on this site, or even mainly, because the dynamic doesn't just pop up out of thin air. It originates from typology itself. The attitude is written into the system. The descriptions are incredibly biased, badly written, and wrong, and the entire system is incredibly reductivist to start with, making it so that something extraordinarily complex and subtle (the human mind) is simplified for the comfort of simple people: so they can see the world in black and white.

Of course the typological pattern exists, but the existence of the pattern doesn't justify the reductivism of the pattern.

 

[magpie]

I also want to make it clear that sensors are not more stupid, less creative, less imaginative, less pattern oriented, or less conceptual than intuitives, and if you believe that intuitives are those things more than sensors, you are both wrong and part of the problem, no matter how you try to dress up your condescension and superiority complex.

 

[magpie]

What is bias? Devaluation of the concept "concrete."

Part of what makes the system biased is that it conceptualizes "abstract" as better than "concrete." Let's explore this.

Concrete. Direct. Those are adjectives used to describe sensors. Those adjectives are viewed as lesser - less valuable, less intelligent, less creative - than adjectives used to describe intuitives, because somehow people have come to believe that being abstract is inherently better than being concrete.

Time and time again I come across intuitives who cannot for the life of them explain or justify their thoughts or positions because they are not able to concretely describe the abstract with language. I think that many intuitives who cannot justify or explain their positions, thoughts, insights, and intuitions assume that means their thoughts are more complex than someone who can explain, and therefore that they're smarter. That is not true. The ability of a sensor to express things from the land of abstraction directly and concretely does not mean their thoughts are less complex or easier to express. It means that they are better able to express, more skilled at the alchemy of transforming concepts across multiple dimensions of thought in order to keep the essence of a concept even as it changes form in terms of expression, and therefore it could be said that sensors are actually smarter than intuitives.

Because if you can't explain your shit, no one is going to explain it for you. It just makes you look like a dumbass who expects people to read minds and then gets pissy and claims to have thoughts "too complex" to describe rather than admitting you can't support your positions and haven't actually done enough internal exploration and thinking to be able to.

It's also ironic because people who accurately type as sensors actually better understand the typological pattern than most other people, because accurately typed sensors have gone past the description that they don't identify with, which is the concrete and direct expression of the pattern, into the pattern itself, which is an abstraction.

Not to mention the irony in Ns viewing concepts like "direct", "concrete", "sensory" in the most literal ways possible. It's not that literal guys.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I actually tend to feel stupid when I can't translate my thoughts into words concisely, and it can be frustrating. Yes, I have a tendency to use metaphor because for me it's easier. No, I've never thought that the more direct/concrete style is "dumb." I sometimes think Te doms are a bit blunt and can come across as insensitive, but that's another story and as with all function dynamics is more about subjective preference rather than a universal "right way."

 

[Jaguar]

If someone wants to bash my Ni, they can piss off.
If someone wants to bash my Se, they can piss off.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

one of my posts was moved to off-topic. I guess I should've been more specific. I meant I needed help because I'm a sensor. Because anti-sensor bias or something

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I find it's better to keep type fields blank in my profile.

 

[Agent Washington]

I have a lot of things to grumble about, but another thing that I love to grumble about is how, if a character shows the slightest bit of intelligence, they're automatically typed as an intuitive, even when evidence clearly shows that they're a sensors. And dumb characters are often typed as sensors, when in fact they can be intuitive, as well. Conflating typology with IQ (I will be quite happy never to see an "Intuitive = Higher IQ?" thread again) shows a complete lack of understanding for what typology is.

It's even more pathetic when it comes from people who clearly don't know what they are talking about, have a complete inability to think critically, and a limited field of understanding, but think that (self) typing as an intuitive automatically means that they've got more intellectual worth than the sensors that they so apparently look down on.

...Typology is weaponised by stupid people, and stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Can someone point me to any thread/s that are being perceived as downing sensors? Since I've returned here I've seen at least four threads on the subject of sensors being knocked on this forum but I don't really see that much around here?

The forum today is farrrr better re: sensors than I remember it circa 2008-2011, where the pinnacle of humanity was INTP and each dichotomy off from that was a step backwards in evolution. There are more of those who type as S and less blatantly insulting comments being thrown around about any S type. In fact I see people go out of their way not to make negative comments. Or perhaps I'm missing something. I am fairly new-ish to this "new" forum.

I guess if sensors feel this site negatively affects them then perhaps a break is needed? That's what I did... Personally, I wouldn't stay around a place that was causing me more negative feelings than positive. I think there will always be some amount of intuitive bias here, for numerous reasons. If this bothers anyone --not to dismiss how anyone feels at all-- but it's honestly just not that important. I know it's hard to see while you're actively participating but this forum is really not at all relevant. Even before we get into life outside of the internet, just beyond this little corner of typology, no one knows or cares what your type is.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

This thread is a place for sensors to discuss the ways this site negatively effects our self esteem and hinders personal development.

Thank you for writing this. I've long been frustrated with bias against Fe. I don't mean to derail the focus of the thread, but I do want to say that this (what you wrote above) is exactly why it's a disservice to the forum (community) to perpetuate the weird dumping that happens. It's been my impression in the past that when Fe types object strongly to unfair characterization, it's written off as some Fe need to control the opinions/values of others. As if the only reason it's happening is the blind/deaf/dumb urge of FJs to control others' opinions and values. But the real reason is that it's actually harmful for an FJ (or sensor - doubly so for an FJ sensor) to repeatedly immerse themselves in an environment which characterizes them in an unfair way. There are studies to back this up: eventually a person believes something negative and unfair about themselves if they're exposed to it long enough.

So yeah, it's important to note that the reason for the objection is that it does negatively effect people.

Even when I do see ESTJs get complemented in threads, it seems like they're reading from stock type descriptions more than anything.

I'm not sure I'm referring to the same kind of "compliments" - but what I've noticed, when people complement Fe, it's often one of those compliments that seems more like underhanded hidden condescension (however unconsciously) issued to maintain the 'us vs. them' divisive mentality.

 

[Yama]

SENSORS ONLY: how do you deal with intuitives who keep deliberately missing your point in order to 'troll' you?

 

[Red Memories]

I think all types are important, needed, and valuable. <3

 

[Agent Washington]

SENSORS ONLY: how do you deal with intuitives who keep deliberately missing your point in order to 'troll' you?

Miss their point back and troll 'em back. I'm old testament. If you can burn the shit out of them, do it. They deserve it.

If it gets too long and they're really genuinely repulsive individuals, report the shit out of them (make sure you've got at least somewhat of a reason that you can articulate and a functional system, though; if you're on tumblr you might as well burn the website down because boy, is it shit), make it clear that you fucking hate them (obligatory. i fucking hate some characters on this site. others i'm more ambiguous about), and ignore them (mostly because looking at them is going to soil your eyes and waste your precious time).

Also be prepared to deal with catching the shit end of the thing because sometimes popular people are wrong, and a lot of people are just weak idiots. (The weak part I don't mind; the idiotic part makes me angry.)

...This site isn't that bad, though.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I hate the idea of saying there are thinkers and there are doers. It's elitist. Besides doer helps you think better and vice versa. Anyway the idea of wanting minions can be quite toxic, and some insecure intuitive want sensors to be their minions. I would only do that kind of work it I was payed. If I had to be someone's servant, then I must be payed very well.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I hate the idea of saying there are thinkers and there are doers. It's elitist. Besides doer helps you think better and vice versa. Anyway the idea of wanting minions can be quite toxic, and some insecure intuitive want sensors to be their minions. I would only do that kind of work it I was payed. If I had to be someone's servant, then I must be payed very well.

EDIT: This idea of thinking vs doer is something people off the internet think as well and it annoys me. It might be that high class people want to be thinkers and push lower classes into the doing jobs. Jobs where you only do tend to have less value. They are needed, but the workers can be replaceable.

 

[Forever]

Yeah @Smilephantomhive my ideal job is independent where I am the boss to myself and no one else. I’ve known plenty of sensors who are in higher level management mixed with intuitives.

Excuse me if I am wrong but i don’t think all intuitives automatically qualify for high jobs just because of their preference.

And business/accounting is not exactly an intuitive friendly environment either. But they make $$$.

Anyhow I don’t know the real logistics of all. But I would like to go with yeah, It is very wrong to see intuitives as the top for simply being who they are.

In real life, sensors and intuitives upon first glance are very hard to distinguish. Each likes a mix of what goes on in their lives. So that’s always a good thing.

 

[Forever]

I do want to make an added note

I get that I can be seen as bad as saying everyone matters. It’s sound trollish, but it’s not bad.

I understood the whole black lives matter, it was said because they in particular needed to be heard. Not shunned. Putting them back with everybody. Doesn’t help it.

All my concern was is that unlike the things with feminism, racial minorities,

Intuitives are the minority irl but the imposing power within MBTI communities. Now I’m gonna stop there.

Irl there’s nothing inherently wrong with your average white male or female. But the minorities aren’t exactly getting their fair share of being heard.

So in turn there is nothing inherently wrong with your average sensor male or female.

I think what makes me sound confusing to people is that I talk to myself in my own posts that may sound like gee? Can’t forever learn that rude things aren’t accepted here.

I think out loud and put contradicting points in my own posts although poorly labeled. It’s my way of balancing the argument within my own mind. (This isn’t an intuitive exclusive thing either)

I want to say sorry for unintentionally hurting anyone’s feelings.

And to make sure my post was in no way directed towards Yama. I can seem weird when hitting hard to an audience nobody may exactly understand.

For this fictional analogy:
Sensors = white heterosexual normative male/female
Intuitives = anything but

For a fictional analogy:
If this even helps further it’s like saying the white male or female in America getting tired *online* for being under appreciated for being less than the minorities. But irl, they just have an equal playing field and perhaps even better than the minorities. But the minorities are bad either way. (This is not accurate in any way just an analogy)

^ I don't want that. That's why I'm saying everyone is valuable. And no making an "Intuitive Support Thread" is like saying "White People Matter" No, hell no. Fuck no. (to the methodology of it, not the actual status of it)

I’m just trying to be reasonable. If that’s hard to understand or is still offensive. Well ok. Go fuck my self for not having it easy irl. But supposedly “easy” online.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

Yeah @Smilephantomhive my ideal job is independent where I am the boss to myself and no one else. I’ve known plenty of sensors who are in higher level management mixed with intuitives.

Excuse me if I am wrong but i don’t think all intuitives automatically qualify for high jobs just because of their preference.

And business/accounting is not exactly an intuitive friendly environment either. But they make $$$.

Anyhow I don’t know the real logistics of all. But I would like to go with yeah, It is very wrong to see intuitives as the top for simply being who they are.

In real life, sensors and intuitives upon first glance are very hard to distinguish. Each likes a mix of what goes on in their lives. So that’s always a good thing.

My secobd topic was dirt diverging from mbti and I think sensors are seen they way they are because of these hierachial structures, not the other way around.