[Fe] How can I make my Fe not suck

[Bilateral Entry]

Ha! If only. And yet despite my complaining if he asks for a pencil during our final tomorrow, I'm still going to give him one. I'd tell him he can keep it, but he'd probably just lose it before his next exam.

ur weird to keep giving him shit

 

[Yama]

ur weird to keep giving him shit

It's the awkward consequences. After loaning him a pencil every day, if I don't have one to loan him, he's going to know it's BS. I don't want to take my final sitting next to this guy who knows I'm obviously lying to him if I say no at this point.

 

[Bilateral Entry]

It's the awkward consequences. After loaning him a pencil every day, if I don't have one to loan him, he's going to know it's BS. I don't want to take my final sitting next to this guy who knows I'm obviously lying to him if I say no at this point.

still weird

 

[Yama]

still weird

Maybe it's the Fe that I suck at

 

[Bilateral Entry]

Maybe it's the Fe that I suck at

your avatar is girly

 

[Yama]

your avatar is girly

Perhaps it is because my avatar is of a girl. She is Weiss Schnee from RWBY and I love her

 

[ceecee]

It's the awkward consequences. After loaning him a pencil every day, if I don't have one to loan him, he's going to know it's BS. I don't want to take my final sitting next to this guy who knows I'm obviously lying to him if I say no at this point.

So? Say - Hell no! while holding 16 pencils. I would.

 

[Yama]

So? Say - Hell no! while holding 16 pencils. I would.

Y'all are awakening the Fe. But that would be mean and create a conflicting situation that would make me uncomfortable. Yeah it annoys me and I hate it and complain about it, but since there's no reason to say no other than because I dislike it, I don't think it's worth it. Telling him no and making him upset with me would bother me more than the lesser annoyance of him borrowing the pencil.

But the whole situation in and of itself is stupid. If I was smart I'd have just said no the first or second time so he'd stop asking.

 

[ceecee]

Y'all are awakening the Fe. But that would be mean and create a conflicting situation that would make me uncomfortable. Yeah it annoys me and I hate it and complain about it, but since there's no reason to say no other than because I dislike it, I don't think it's worth it. Telling him no and making him upset with me would bother me more than the lesser annoyance of him borrowing the pencil.

But the whole situation in and of itself is stupid. If I was smart I'd have just said no the first or second time so he'd stop asking.

It would only create a conflict if you allow it to become a conflict. You can shut that down.

 

[Yama]

It would only create a conflict if you allow it to become a conflict. You can shut that down.

Not necessarily a physical conflict or confrontation--more like the disappointment as a response creates a heavy atmosphere that causes me an internal conflict. Which I suppose can also still be shut down, if I start training myself to be more in control of that sort of thing.

 

[ceecee]

Not necessarily a physical conflict or confrontation--more like the disappointment as a response creates a heavy atmosphere that causes me an internal conflict. Which I suppose can also still be shut down, if I start training myself to be more in control of that sort of thing.

I don't mean a physical conflict or confrontation. And yes, start training yourself to be in control. You feel internal conflict. You feel negative about someone being upset with you. You do that to yourself. Not him. Not anyone else. And then you can say - get your own fucking pencil!

 

[SearchingforPeace]

At some point you need to learn that everyone else is selfish and you need to be as well, as disharmonious as that sounds. So, you see needs all around, but it isn't your job to fill them. You don't need to save others from their own incompetence.

I know it sounds tough and it is to me as well, but you need boundaries. You need to love yourself not to be a doormat. Potential co-dependents attracting people with needs. Like magnets.

Fe at its best is far from being anyone's doormat.....

 

[Yama]

Pencil Fiasco Update: I just took my final for this class so I will never see pencil kid again. I only brought one pencil to class because if I brought two I knew that I would loan him one (and also I didn't want to lie about only having one pencil). He was fine with that. And it was fine. But then... he turned to every other person around me and asked each one individually if they had a pencil. The first three didnt. The fourth one did. I can't help but feel guilty. I'm trying not to. It's not my fault. He should be responsible and bring his own supplies to class. But it's really hard to stop myself from thinking that, if I'd just gave him the pencil one last time, those four other people wouldn't have been bothered by him. I shouldn't have to feel responsible for this. I don't want to. Well, I'm trying not to. It's kind of hard though.

At some point you need to learn that everyone else is selfish and you need to be as well, as disharmonious as that sounds. So, you see needs all around, but it isn't your job to fill them. You don't need to save others from their own incompetence.

I know it sounds tough and it is to me as well, but you need boundaries. You need to love yourself not to be a doormat. Potential co-dependents attracting people with needs. Like magnets.

Fe at its best is far from being anyone's doormat.....

I know other people are selfish, I consider myself selfish too... I wouldn't care at all about the pencil thing if it wasn't my fault for starting it in the first place and thus encouraging and reinforcing the behavior. For the most part I feel unaffected by other people's problems... until I become somehow involved. I guess I have this mindset that if I can prevent the people around me from having problems, that I won't have as many problems.

Considering my temperament and enneagram, trying to make myself more assertive sounds like a completely foreign concept to me that rubs me the wrong way. If I'm going to do that, then it's going to be hard. Really hard. I'm basically going to have to disassemble and rewire myself. And yet my stupid Si that has me stuck in my ways doesnt want to. Logically it all makes sense and my head agrees but my gut is rejecting it. It kind of feels like I'd have to reinvent myself rather than stay true to myself and who I am... which is dumb because the whole problem itself is dumb.

For the record I don't see myself as a complete doormat, I have my limits, and I'm much more assertive and vocal about my opinions around friends and family than strangers. Put pressure on me and I start to cave. Like with the pencil thing, I knew for sure I would cave so I physically did not bring an extra pencil in order to prevent that. This is probably going to sound like the dumbest question in the world but I legitimately don't know how to answer: how do I assert myself without being uncomfortable all the time and always regretting it later, and without caving? And howner far do I have to go? What's a healthy balance?

 

[SearchingforPeace]

For the record I don't see myself as a complete doormat, I have my limits, and I'm much more assertive and vocal about my opinions around friends and family than strangers. Put pressure on me and I start to cave. Like with the pencil thing, I knew for sure I would cave so I physically did not bring an extra pencil in order to prevent that. This is probably going to sound like the dumbest question in the world but I legitimately don't know how to answer: how do I assert myself without being uncomfortable all the time and always regretting it later, and without caving? And howner far do I have to go? What's a healthy balance?

I am struggling with this myself. I was never a doormat in public growing up, but I have that tendency in close relationships, especially bosses and siblings and parents and SOs. You sound like the opposite. But you are SX last, I am SX first, though we are both 9s with the same tritype.

I finally realized that conflict avoiding is a bad thing. I accepted that I was unfair to my closest relationships to hold back to avoid conflict. If I really loved them, I needed to not hold back from conflict. Peacemaking means we need to standup for correct principles and be a positive force. But it isn't kind to prop others up and not let them face the consequences of their failures. Pencil boy might have started bringing his own pencil if you had not enabled him.... just a thought.

We want to empower others, not enable them. By doing so, we empower ourselves.

So,

 

[Fun in the Sun]

You can't be the worst ISFJ in history. Have you met every ISFJ out there yet?

 

[Yama]

I am struggling with this myself. I was never a doormat in public growing up, but I have that tendency in close relationships, especially bosses and siblings and parents and SOs. You sound like the opposite. But you are SX last, I am SX first, though we are both 9s with the same tritype.

I finally realized that conflict avoiding is a bad thing. I accepted that I was unfair to my closest relationships to hold back to avoid conflict. If I really loved them, I needed to not hold back from conflict. Peacemaking means we need to standup for correct principles and be a positive force. But it isn't kind to prop others up and not let them face the consequences of their failures. Pencil boy might have started bringing his own pencil if you had not enabled him.... just a thought.

We want to empower others, not enable them. By doing so, we empower ourselves.

So,

Yes, I'm sure he would have started to bring his own pencil. Or at the very least he'd have had to find someone else to mooch it off of every week. I definitely encouraged the behavior.

What I am most worried about, besides trying not to cave under pressure, is about recognizing when I need to stand up for myself in the moment. After the fact, when I have time for reflection, I often see 500 ways I could have done something differently that would have been better. But usually these incidents as they happen, like the pencil thing, are my natural reaction. I guess if the problem is recurring I am able to use the reflection time to prevent it from happening a second or third time once I realize there's a pattern. My motives aren't so much about either empowering others or enabling them, but mostly just being nice, people-pleasing, keeping the peace, etc.

So I'm thinking, I need to learn how to react and assert myself in the moment, in real time. Hard, but not impossible. Feels a little overwhelming. Where am I supposed to start?

You can't be the worst ISFJ in history. Have you met every ISFJ out there yet?

I don't think I'm the worst one. I just wish I was better. Not necessarily at being an ISFJ, I guess, but in general.

 

[ceecee]

Where am I supposed to start?

Don't let people borrow stuff, repeatedly. Limit it to ONE TIME ONLY. There's the line. Start getting comfortable with setting boundaries. One at a time.

 

[Yama]

Don't let people borrow stuff, repeatedly. Limit it to ONE TIME ONLY. There's the line. Start getting comfortable with setting boundaries. One at a time.

Okay. This is a good first step. I think I should be able to manage that much.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Okay. This is a good first step. I think I should be able to manage that much.

Listen to the 8 here. She is much better at this. But just remember, none of those in public truly love you. The connection matters, but less. I connect easily in public and can both push positive emotions and assert myself easily because the stakes are low.

High stakes games are much harder for me. Love really isn't on the line, but it seems like that because I grew up emotionally neglected by my parents, especially my mother. I don't have a relationship with her today and I did nothing to deserve that, but she treats me worse than all my siblings, refusing to talk to me for years.

Can my marriage stand me not being a doormat? It isn't pretty, but we are slowly making it work, though it still is in dangerous waters.

But just remember, just because you feel someone's need, doesn't mean you med to fill it.....

 

[Yama]

Listen to the 8 here. She is much better at this.

8's fascinate me because they're good at what I suck at.

But just remember, none of those in public truly love you. The connection matters, but less. I connect easily in public and can both push positive emotions and assert myself easily because the stakes are low.

High stakes games are much harder for me. Love really isn't on the line, but it seems like that because I grew up emotionally neglected by my parents, especially my mother. I don't have a relationship with her today and I did nothing to deserve that, but she treats me worse than all my siblings, refusing to talk to me for years.

Can my marriage stand me not being a doormat? It isn't pretty, but we are slowly making it work, though it still is in dangerous waters.

But just remember, just because you feel someone's need, doesn't mean you med to fill it.....

I'm more awkward in public. I know random people I pass by on the street couldn't care less about me... and I honestly don't care that much about them either. I don't really feel or anticipate people's needs... just react when asked for help. If pencil dude never asked me for a pencil, I would never have given him one, nor would I have noticed that he needed one. Since he asked, I felt obligated.

I think I express and assert myself a lot more naturally after I become comfortable around the people I am with. Family and friends, I know very well, and they know me, so I'm not working to "present myself" in a nice way. But with strangers or acquaintances, I am different. I put up protective walls and I only let them see what I want them to see, which is of course the illusion that I am a nice, helpful person. But with friends and others I feel at east around, I'm more zany, more open about what I'm feeling, and more likely to say "No" when I don't want to do something.

That being said, I'm starting to feel that a large part of me learning to assert myself is going to also mean learning to relax and let go of social anxiety.