[Fe] How can I make my Fe not suck

[cascadeco]

...and this is when mbti begins to suck, when it causes people to become anxious and so focused on not fitting into the framework or how they're 'supposed' to be.

I'm sorry you're not feeling or doing well.

I don't think though that focusing on mbti or cognitive functions is going to help you at the moment, though I know others may disagree. Because, I think a big part of the issue, at least what you're focusing on, IS mbti and trying to tie everything into it nicely and neatly, and fixating on how you're 'not Fe' and 'not like the ISFJ descriptions'.

I say, forget about it, and just focus on being YOU, whomever that is, and finding peace and health as best you can. I am sorry you are struggling with being in this big funk and perhaps with depression. But, F*ck the cognitive functions.

 

[Yama]

I'm not entirely sure how you imagine Fe to be... but I primarily find the SFJ descriptions to be an insult to the SFJ... which in turn causes confusion for these individuals and produces a disproportionately high number of mistypes. You only *seem like* one of the few ISFJs on this site. But I assure you - you are not alone and your Fe in no way sucks.


Do "caretaker" SFJs exist? Sure. But most SFJs that I've encountered here are dynamic intellectuals that do not live to serve others.

Yeah, that's why I hate SFJ descriptions. They're all really blegh and yuck. And yet they simultaneously make me fell bad about myself for not being that way. I had been able to ignore them for so long... and then I slipped.

...and this is when mbti begins to suck, when it causes people to become anxious and so focused on not fitting into the framework or how they're 'supposed' to be.

I'm sorry you're not feeling or doing well.

I don't think though that focusing on mbti or cognitive functions is going to help you at the moment, though I know others may disagree. Because, I think a big part of the issue, at least what you're focusing on, IS mbti and trying to tie everything into it nicely and neatly, and fixating on how you're 'not Fe' and 'not like the ISFJ descriptions'.

I say, forget about it, and just focus on being YOU, whomever that is, and finding peace and health as best you can. I am sorry you are struggling with being in this big funk and perhaps with depression. But, F*ck the cognitive functions.

If I never learned about MBTI I would never be crying over this. I guess I'm trying to use MBTI as a self help type of thing or something? Cuz I mean if it can't be applied for some kind of practical use then what use even is it lol?

To be fair to myself, I only got 2.5 hours of sleep last night, and was already cranky beforehand, which is why this unfortunate thread was birthed. Even if we take functions and MBTI out of it, I should probably just try to find some kind of creative outlet to express myself when I get that way.

 

[cascadeco]

Yeah, that's why I hate SFJ descriptions. They're all really blegh and yuck. And yet they simultaneously make me fell bad about myself for not being that way. I had been able to ignore them for so long... and then I slipped.



If I never learned about MBTI I would never be crying over this. I guess I'm trying to use MBTI as a self help type of thing or something? Cuz I mean if it can't be applied for some kind of practical use then what use even is it lol?

Sure, I get that. To that end, I believe it would involve getting out of your head and comfort zone and beginning to interact more with others, as others have suggested. (getting out of ones internal experience and looking/interacting outwards with people or things is pretty much the 'solution' for any introvert, in terms of mbti). But based on what you have written, it doesn't sound like you're quite ready for that? That is why I was suggesting forgetting about cog functions, since it seems some of the issue is being frustrated with mbti in the first place.

 

[Yama]

Sure, I get that. To that end, I believe it would involve getting out of your head and comfort zone and beginning to interact more with others, as others have suggested. (getting out of ones internal experience and looking/interacting outwards with people or things is pretty much the 'solution' for any introvert, in terms of mbti). But based on what you have written, it doesn't sound like you're quite ready for that? That is why I was suggesting forgetting about cog functions, since it seems some of the issue is being frustrated with mbti in the first place.

I think I'm going to just forget about everything (or try to) and just try to survive life. Play my idol phone games I'm addicted to. Do homework. Go to school. Sleep and eat and do some other stuff sometimes. Just go moment to moment and day to day, because when I try to plan too far ahead or when I try to figure myself out it never ends well. I am hoping winter break next month will give me enough free time to relax and find my zen, and see some friends, and hopefully I won't think too much about if we'll still be friends after they graduate and just try to focus on enjoying myself now while I can, regardless of whatever happens.

 

[Diablesse]

Lol @ houseplant because that was literally my last thought before falling asleep! That or a pet. Although I already have plenty of pets. Except they're all dying. My hamster is gonna die of old age soon and same with my fish, he's slowly dying right now and it kills me to watch him. I'm not going to get another fish after him because he's my third one and watching them die never gets easier. I'll probably get another hamster in the future though.

I can relate to the beginning of that description--feeling in the present moment. I guess my problem is that I tend to not really outwardly express it. I'm uncomfortable showing my "true" emotions around other people (how are you? oh I'm fine. Not gonna say that I'm not fine, that's just awkward, you know?) and get really uncomfortable when people get emotional around me as well. I'm super bad at comforting people when they're upset. When people start ugly crying near me it makes me start tearing up even if I don't really care what they're crying about.

I would probably be an okay babysitter. I'm very responsible and for some reason little kids like me, probably because I'm just a Big Kid who's never grown up (instead I'm just allowed to use a car and curse words now). Lol once when I worked in customer service I sang the krusty krab pizza song with this kid who was there with his dad while I helped them with whatever it was. I'd probably be able to put up with something like that for a day every once in a while, but would die if it was an everyday thing. Luckily it's not. Maybe if anyone I know ever has kids I can do that.

Houseplants are fairly easy you only have to find a spot in your house they are happy in and water them once a week. I have five houseplants at one time I had ten or so. Funny thing is, I never knew how to take care of plants and would be the first person to tell you I kill them until I worked for an indoor plant company. I have had hamsters, fish, a bunny, guinea pigs, dogs, and cats, in my life. I wouldn't mind having another fish tank because they are asthetically appealing and actually don't require a whole lot of upkeep once you achieve water balance. The only pet I have currently is a white, black, and brown female calico cat (the only reason I have her is because she is very shy and too timid to try and leave the house). I have had two big beautiful tom cats, but even when they are neutered have a tendancy to escape and roam. The last one I tried very hard to keep in because I fell in love with him, but he kept getting out anyway (I have a suspicion that one of my neighbors does not like cats and traps them to kill them for target practice). The last breed of dog I kept were blue pitbulls but honestly do not have the desire or inclination to put in the time to care for them properly. My thoughts on dogs are that they are the equivalent of two year olds in terms of attention and time needed, and frankly I am too lazy for the kind of commitment required on a daily basis.

My ex mother in law thinks I should have been in early childhood education and has said I would have made a good kindergarten teacher like my ex sister in law. I have a soft spot in my heart for small children and bond very easily with them. They bring out my inner child

I think you are still young and have years ahead of you to develop and don't give yourself enough credit. I think in time your self assessement of yourself with change and grow into a more realistic and balanced perspective of both your strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Starry]

Yeah, that's why I hate SFJ descriptions. They're all really blegh and yuck. And yet they simultaneously make me fell bad about myself for not being that way. I had been able to ignore them for so long... and then I slipped.

It didn't occur to me at first but I believe what's actually happening here is that you're coming up against e9 issues concerning identity...

who you are... who you feel "pulled by others" to be...etc.

Instead of becoming the next Mother Teresa... maybe take a (another) long, hard look at that last point on the enneagram.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

You could be a "Ti heavy" IxFJ. I think this is quite common, more so with IxFJ males though. It's certainly true of my cousin. I don't think it means a lack of Fe but a different picture of Fe that's more fine tuned with a tertiary thinking preference. People like this usually have a heavier interest in fairness over accommodation.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

MBTI is relatively good in describing personalities and sometimes in identifying typical problems related to personal development. However it shouldn't fully drive your personal development. You should focus on building a life you want to live and change yourself and your circumstances in that direction. You will automatically develop the necessary skills on the way. If you do it like this then the result might be something completely unique that is halfway between several MBTI types.

 

[Yama]

I think you are still young and have years ahead of you to develop and don't give yourself enough credit. I think in time your self assessement of yourself with change and grow into a more realistic and balanced perspective of both your strengths and weaknesses.

Definitely still developing, I mean I still have my outbursts but compared to how I was three years ago? I've grown quite a lot. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am making progress, but that it happens slowly and gradually, and because of that it's hard for me to notice.

It didn't occur to me at first but I believe what's actually happening here is that you're coming up against e9 issues concerning identity...

who you are... who you feel "pulled by others" to be...etc.

Instead of becoming the next Mother Teresa... maybe take a (another) long, hard look at that last point on the enneagram.

I was googling stuff about this, and I found this:

Nines demonstrate the universal temptation to ignore the disturbing aspects of life and to seek some degree of peace and comfort by “numbing out.” They respond to pain and suffering by attempting to live in a state of premature peacefulness, whether it is in a state of false spiritual attainment, or in more gross denial. More than any other type, Nines demonstrate the tendency to run away from the paradoxes and tensions of life by attempting to transcend them or by seeking to find simple and painless solutions to their problems.

And I relate to this so much. This is exactly what I do. It also says this:

Nines must resist the urge to escape into “premature Buddhahood” or the “white light” of the Divine and away from the mundane world. They must remember that “the only way out is through.”

Does that basically mean not to go into panic-and-hide mode and try to stay positive because eventually the problem will pass?

You could be a "Ti heavy" IxFJ. I think this is quite common, more so with IxFJ males though. It's certainly true of my cousin. I don't think it means a lack of Fe but a different picture of Fe that's more fine tuned with a tertiary thinking preference. People like this usually have a heavier interest in fairness over accommodation.

I've read about Ti heavy ISFJs, like those in a S-Ti loop, but it sounds really unhealthy.

MBTI is relatively good in describing personalities and sometimes in identifying typical problems related to personal development. However it shouldn't fully drive your personal development. You should focus on building a life you want to live and change yourself and your circumstances in that direction. You will automatically develop the necessary skills on the way. If you do it like this then the result might be something completely unique that is halfway between several MBTI types.

Basically: I need to stop crying about being an "ideal" MBTI type and just be a person and live my life. That's true.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION], I wasn't talking about an Si-Ti loop because that would involved the absence of Fe. Rather, Fe is very much present but heavily balanced with Ti which makes your Fe appear 'atypical' of what we would consider standard highly accommodating Fe. When Ti influences Fe more then Fe is more about fairness based on logical universals rather than being nurturing because its just the right thing to do.

 

[Yama]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION], I wasn't talking about an Si-Ti loop because that would involved the absence of Fe. Rather, Fe is very much present but heavily balanced with Ti which makes your Fe appear 'atypical' of what we would consider standard highly accommodating Fe. When Ti influences Fe more then Fe is more about fairness based on logical universals rather than being nurturing because its just the right thing to do.

Oh I see. That might be the case. I'm in that point in my life where my Ti is starting to break free and that might have caused me to freak out. Also because I have so many T friends, it might have rubbed off on me a little. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. I think this might be right.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Oh I see. That might be the case. I'm in that point in my life where my Ti is starting to break free and that might have caused me to freak out. Also because I have so many T friends, it might have rubbed off on me a little. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. I think this might be right.

Well if you're around a lot of friends with a thinking preference then to 'fit in' you might be tapping into your own thinking preference. Ironically, if your desire is to be more relatable to your "T" friends and you 'break out' your T to do that then that's actually Fe all the way.

 

[SiegfriedSchtauffen]

Basically: I need to stop crying about being an "ideal" MBTI type and just be a person and live my life. That's true.

Exactly. MBTI is just one of the models that roughly approximate personalities based on relatively few incoming parameters. It often totally ignores possible significant external factors unique to your life.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

You might see advices to take care of children of other people as ineffective, however I used to be terrible at caring about people (not saying I am perfect at it now) , but reaching out to people really helps.
I myself deal with mild social anxiety that makes it hard for me to feel relaxed and comfortable around people, mostly the ones I don't know well or those who seem too authoritative or aggressive, but stepping out of yourself really helps.
You don't have to babysit strangers to do that... The first step for you should be getting out of your own world and starting noticing others more. You can simply try to have polite conversations with others, notice how they react and how you can influence their moods by simple "hi" .
It's a start...

 

[Starry]

I'm sorry this response comes late 21lux. I was out-of-town over thanksgiving...and just remembered to do a "restore content".

I was googling stuff about this, and I found this:

Nines demonstrate the universal temptation to ignore the disturbing aspects of life and to seek some degree of peace and comfort by “numbing out.” They respond to pain and suffering by attempting to live in a state of premature peacefulness, whether it is in a state of false spiritual attainment, or in more gross denial. More than any other type, Nines demonstrate the tendency to run away from the paradoxes and tensions of life by attempting to transcend them or by seeking to find simple and painless solutions to their problems.

And I relate to this so much. This is exactly what I do

I love that you relate to that - I am made very happy by this. It's a difficult thing to see in yourself. And to know you see it tells me a great deal about your awareness.

What they are describing above is 9s version of "Positive Outlook"...and it is because 7 too has a version of this bastard massive obstacle to problem identification and subsequent solutions for transformation and growth...I hope you will trust me when I tell you that half of your battle has already been won.

It also says this:

Nines must resist the urge to escape into “premature Buddhahood” or the “white light” of the Divine and away from the mundane world. They must remember that “the only way out is through.”

Does that basically mean not to go into panic-and-hide mode and try to stay positive because eventually the problem will pass?

Do not panic-and-hide-modus-operandi-style while doing all you can to stay positive in the spirit of "this too shall pass"... Umm.

"This too shall pass" is dangerous territory imo for any member of the dysfunctional Positive Outlook family to trek... because it shares a border with our homeland "If you ignore the problem it will magically go away." I think you can panic-and-hide all you want all while allowing yourself to be negative. And by never losing sight of the fact that the only way to solve a problem is by solving.

Basically: I need to stop crying about being an "ideal" MBTI type and just be a person and live my life. That's true.

9s have issues with identity that I do not fully understand by do know that they get tripped up by descriptions. Perhaps when you understand this you can explain it to me.

 

[Dreamer]

What is it about your Fe that you feel dissatisfied with? Is what your feeling about not being compassionate enough, coming externally, or do you, yourself feel a need to connect more with others? Nevermind any social stigmas of needing to be altruistic. And you may not realize, but perhaps you help others in ways that are less traditional? You don't have to volunteer to still be a helpful person in the community or to your friends and family. I feel that focusing on yourself first, and ensuring you have what you need to be healthy and happy, will then allow you to express yourself outward to others better.

But then again, this is probably just a bias coming from an Fi user...

In any case, I think this thread was a good idea. You saw an issue and you reached out to others for help Don't shy away now, you'll get to where you want to be in due time.

 

[Bilateral Entry]

What you need is some INTJ advice. I got you, bro.

Fuck Fe! I used to want Fe. Years later, I only have a... below average amount of it. The only person I really empathize towards is my wife, and even that's limited. I am a nice person, as I'm sure everybody has noticed, but everything revolves around how I feel about something. And, that's cool baby. IMO the only thing Fe is functionally good for is to make you easier to get along with. You can bend, you're flexible. But Fi works for that too. I may think the other person is a retard, but I will still accommodate them to be nice.

See, I have low Fe, and I'm still an angel.

 

[Yama]

Well if you're around a lot of friends with a thinking preference then to 'fit in' you might be tapping into your own thinking preference. Ironically, if your desire is to be more relatable to your "T" friends and you 'break out' your T to do that then that's actually Fe all the way.

It's not even necessarily that I want to relate more to them, just that over the years they've rubbed off on me and I may have unconsciously picked up a few of their traits.

I love that you relate to that - I am made very happy by this. It's a difficult thing to see in yourself. And to know you see it tells me a great deal about your awareness.

What they are describing above is 9s version of "Positive Outlook"...and it is because 7 too has a version of this bastard massive obstacle to problem identification and subsequent solutions for transformation and growth...I hope you will trust me when I tell you that half of your battle has already been won.Do not panic-and-hide-modus-operandi-style while doing all you can to stay positive in the spirit of "this too shall pass"... Umm.

"This too shall pass" is dangerous territory imo for any member of the dysfunctional Positive Outlook family to trek... because it shares a border with our homeland "If you ignore the problem it will magically go away." I think you can panic-and-hide all you want all while allowing yourself to be negative. And by never losing sight of the fact that the only way to solve a problem is by solving.

9s have issues with identity that I do not fully understand by do know that they get tripped up by descriptions. Perhaps when you understand this you can explain it to me.

I have noticed that when I become stressed out, I tend to retreat into a childlike state. I start acting like a little kid to avoid my problems. Yeah, the descriptions really bother me. I also relate a lot of it to inferior Ne--when things start changing too much too fast, it overpowers me. The transition from high school to college a few years back was the toughest time in my life. When I wasn't being super negative literally all the time, I was acting like a toddler, whether it be little tantrums or fits, or just resorting to childlike hobbies (coloring books, old TV shows I watched as a kid, etc) as a subconscious way of "fighting" the changes (although I am more aware of it now than I used to be). It hasn't been as bad since I've settled into college, but with all my friends graduating soon and me a year behind them since I took an extra year at community college... I have a feeling it's going to be really bad again soon.

What is it about your Fe that you feel dissatisfied with? Is what your feeling about not being compassionate enough, coming externally, or do you, yourself feel a need to connect more with others? Nevermind any social stigmas of needing to be altruistic. And you may not realize, but perhaps you help others in ways that are less traditional? You don't have to volunteer to still be a helpful person in the community or to your friends and family. I feel that focusing on yourself first, and ensuring you have what you need to be healthy and happy, will then allow you to express yourself outward to others better.

But then again, this is probably just a bias coming from an Fi user...

In any case, I think this thread was a good idea. You saw an issue and you reached out to others for help Don't shy away now, you'll get to where you want to be in due time.

Well, it's that literally no ISFJ description fits me and it makes me feel like I'm screwed up or broken somehow. Pretty much every single ISFJ description I have ever read paints us out to be docile, nurturing, caretaking, compassionate, caring more about others than ourselves, homemakers, oh and also always female.

On the day to day basis, I'm nothing like this. If you could hear my internal dialogue as I go through my day, you'd be like, "Woah, this is not the type of person that fits my schema for ISFJs." I'm not warm--initially I vibe cold, bored, uninterested. It takes me months if not years to warm up to people, so as you can imagine I have very few friends and have not made any new ones in years. Honestly, I just don't care about other people that much. They're not on my mind. I always consider how my actions will affect them, etc, but I come first. If someone wants me to do something and I am uncomfortable with it I won't do it. Over Thanksgiving I was deemed an asshole by my mother's side of the family because I didn't go to visit an extended family member that I couldn't care less about. My grandmother (an ISFJ, coincidentally) nagged at me every single day for a week to come visit, and every single day I told her how insanely busy I was with end-of-the-semester shenanigans. And no, in the end, I did not go. Wa I so busy that I didn't have an hour? No, I had a little bit of time, of course. But I wanted that time to stay at home and cool down from homework, papers, school etc. and not to go see some family member I don't even care about. Oh, on that note, I'm not family-oriented at all. I care about my 3.5 friends way more than my blood family.

Basically, I'm an exception of pretty much every single ISFJ stereotype. And yet people always talk about ISFJs (and all times) in general, wide terms (because its MBTI, which is about similarities within types) and I never agree with or fit them and it just upsets me. It upsets me because it's like, well everyone else has it wrong but there's no point in fighting. There's no point arguing with what they think because even if I had the mental energy to correct people/change their minds, it would only be a small handful of the entire MBTI community. It would have no impact. I could turn the corner and have to deal with it all over again with different people. So why even bother?

As for being helpful in the community... I don't even have a community. I don't know any of my neighbors. I don't know anyone outside my family besides my friends, which I can count the number of on my fingers and they all live out of town during the school year and after next semester will graduate and I'll be left alone in school while they start living in the real world and forget about me. But now that's starting to get into my abandonment issues due to past experiences and not Fe so I'm going to skip that for now. I don't go to clubs in school, I go to class and go home, and get pissed/annoyed when people (family, teachers, advisers) try to convince me to join a club or something. It's a waste of time. I just want to go home and do whatever I want, not have yet another uncomfortable obligation on my shoulders.

I didn't actually intend for my reply to this to become another rant fest, ha. I'm not actually as miserable as I just painted myself out to be. I'm not really feeling anything to be honest.

You can bend, you're flexible. But Fi works for that too. I may think the other person is a retard, but I will still accommodate them to be nice.

On the contrary, my mother has described me as being stubborn af and marching to the beat of my own drum from birth to now... But yeah, I'll be accommodating. There's this guy who asks for a piece of paper and a pencil every single fucking day in one of my classes and I always am like yeah sure no problem here. But it pisses me off. After our final exam tomorrow I'm just going to dump that pencil in the trash because even the sight of it fills me with rage. Like, christ, we're in college, we're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to be here, bring your own fucking pencil and paper. Once or twice is fine, but my god, you know?

 

[Bilateral Entry]

On the contrary, my mother has described me as being stubborn af and marching to the beat of my own drum from birth to now... But yeah, I'll be accommodating. There's this guy who asks for a piece of paper and a pencil every single fucking day in one of my classes and I always am like yeah sure no problem here. But it pisses me off. After our final exam tomorrow I'm just going to dump that pencil in the trash because even the sight of it fills me with rage. Like, christ, we're in college, we're paying thousands and thousands of dollars to be here, bring your own fucking pencil and paper. Once or twice is fine, but my god, you know?

By "you", I meant "me". Or, a hypothetical person with Fe. And your douchebag scrub classmate needs to find someone else to borrow shit from, because you don't carry a spare anymore (allegedly)!

 

[Yama]

By "you", I meant "me". Or, a hypothetical person with Fe. And your douchebag scrub classmate needs to find someone else to borrow shit from, because you don't carry a spare anymore (allegedly)!

Ha! If only. And yet despite my complaining if he asks for a pencil during our final tomorrow, I'm still going to give him one. I'd tell him he can keep it, but he'd probably just lose it before his next exam.