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Thread: Sum Typing

  1. #1
    Remember, Humanity. Vendrah's Avatar
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    Default Sum Typing

    In this thread I am going to show my new typing method calling Sum Typing.
    Its meant to assist typing in test results, it is not a text typing method (not a method to assist typing people on text).

    Sum Typing is not really that much new, as some tests indirectly use it. The idea is plain simple: Attribute a stack - any stack at the beginning - for each type, just for example INFP = 1.5*Fi + 1*Ne + 0.5*Si - 0.5*Te. And then, using the test results, calculate for which type the person have the most points and - viola! - that's the person type.

    As I said, it can be any stack, but, of course, if the stack is screwed up and unrealistic, the results will end up badly. It can even works for less or more than 16 types. Just for example:
    Sensor: Se+Si
    Intuitive: Ne+Ni

    And goes on.

    I had a look on some few dozens of results on Sakinorva, forum test and Dario Nardi test, and based on how people type themselves on their profiles, I had tuned the best fit stack (that can have some theory) for every type. I did it manually, result could be a little bit better if I still had MATLAB for optimizing it (it would require quite some programming still, dont know if I even remember how to do it). I found out that the achile heels is quite unreliable (the Te for INFP, Ne for ISFJ, etc...). I made a test with this method and with the stack I tuned, with some assist (like E/I questions). Here it is the final stack I tuned:

    Weights: 3-2-1
    INFP: Fi-Ne-Ni
    INFJ: Ni-Fe-Fi
    INTP: Ti-Ne-Ni
    INTJ: Ni-Te-Ti
    ENFP: Ne-Fi-Fe
    ENTP: Ne-Ti-Te
    ENFJ: Fe-Ni-Ne
    ENTJ: Te-Ni-Ne
    ISFP: Fi-Se-Si
    ISTP: Ti-Se-Si
    ISFJ: Si-Fe-Fi
    ISTJ: Si-Te-Ti
    ESTP: Se-Ti-Te
    ESTJ: Te-Si-Se
    ESFP: Se-Fi-Fe
    ESFJ: Fe-Si-Se

    Some observations for this stack:
    - Of course it isnt fixed, Im not meaning that INFPs always and must have Fi as a first, Ne as a second and Ni as tertiary function. Its an "ideal INFP" that has that, however my ideal INFP is not that much unrealistic (just go to a thread of cognitive function tests and you will see).
    - Yep, it did better than Fi-Ne-Si-Te (Grant Stack), and Fi-Ne-Si-Te is not a law at all (and as a fixed stack it failed).
    - The tertiary is quite personal and test results are distorted by some things. For example, the best fit for ENFP 7 is Ne-Se-Fi or Ne-Fi-Se instead.
    - Every cousin share at least the first function or two functions (there is no "INTJ and INTP doesnt share functions" thing).
    - When a person have a borderline on the first function department, for example ENFJ with borderline in F/T, this method tends to struggle a bit but it still works.

    Thats it! Simpler and shorter this time.

  2. #2
    Primadonna Girl miss deceit's Avatar
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    I do like these stacks, because of the correlation to Socionics. What we get in socionics is dimensions and valued/unvalued. So to use ENTp/ILE as an example, ENTPs have 4D Ne (valued) and Te (unvalued) and their Ti is 3D but valued which creates a similar Ne-Ti-Te stack ordered by "strength". Socionics Model G takes this one further and uses NeTx to refer to ENTp as opposed to NeTi.

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    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    This is in concord with my secondary types model, where for example, INFJ has secondary INFP frequently, so a higher Fi than expected.

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    Remember, Humanity. Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigergreengrass View Post
    I do like these stacks, because of the correlation to Socionics. What we get in socionics is dimensions and valued/unvalued. So to use ENTp/ILE as an example, ENTPs have 4D Ne (valued) and Te (unvalued) and their Ti is 3D but valued which creates a similar Ne-Ti-Te stack ordered by "strength". Socionics Model G takes this one further and uses NeTx to refer to ENTp as opposed to NeTi.
    I didnt knew that, where you read it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    This is in concord with my secondary types model, where for example, INFJ has secondary INFP frequently, so a higher Fi than expected.
    Yeah, that pretty much fixes the "INFP and INFJ doesnt share any functions and are completely different" (or the same for INTJ and INTP).

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    Primadonna Girl miss deceit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vendrah View Post
    I didnt knew that, where you read it?
    For socionics information, I'd recommend Wikisocion

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    Remember, Humanity. Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigergreengrass View Post
    I do like these stacks, because of the correlation to Socionics. What we get in socionics is dimensions and valued/unvalued. So to use ENTp/ILE as an example, ENTPs have 4D Ne (valued) and Te (unvalued) and their Ti is 3D but valued which creates a similar Ne-Ti-Te stack ordered by "strength". Socionics Model G takes this one further and uses NeTx to refer to ENTp as opposed to NeTi.
    I had a quick look into wikisocion and what you say makes a lot of sense.
    However, I did these fits with MBTI J/P on mind and not Jung J/P. I have been in trouble into trying to fit a tertiary in R/I (Jung J/P), although conceptually it is easy, it doesnt show up properly on the data (and re-filtering and re-arranging types into R/I is a huge work).

    I have a different Jung interpretation and that is that Jung types, with pairings, are actually 32 types. In other words, the pair for Ne can be Fe,Fi,Te and Ti. The literal interpretation of chapter X (alone) is that. If there are 32 pairs, the pair Ne-Te and Ne-Ti would be united into ENTP, and since "my" data has been mostly based on Dario Nardi test that forces pairing (they have a question that score for Ti and Ne at the same time, same for the other 7 pairs), that would give Ne-Ti-Te for ENTP (same pattern for rest). If you go into test results thread from the main 3 tests here - Sakinorva, local test and keys2cognition - you see a lot of cases with people being Ti-Ni, its fairly common, which pretty supports my interpretation. Even if my interpretation is not correct, it is the best interpretation for these data. I would not complain that much about MBTI although, Ti-Ni and Ti-Ne arent that much different.

  7. #7
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vendrah View Post
    Yeah, that pretty much fixes the "INFP and INFJ doesnt share any functions and are completely different" (or the same for INTJ and INTP).
    You still haven't caught onto function order yet though. INFJ is still Ni-Fe-Ti-Se--Ne-Fi-Te-Si, because when in INFJ mode, that is generally how one's functions play out.

    So you haven't got Ni-Fe-Fi, but rather Ni-Fe with elements of Fi-Ne.

  8. #8
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    I said that Feeling overlaps with emotion, so there are emotions that are and aren't linked to Feeling.

    Here's how it seems to work (not original ideas: I'm paraphrasing someone else):

    Happy and sad are linked to the inner feeling states of Fi, whereas Fe is more about social emotions of giving off warmth and hostility.

    The emotions of anger, shame and fear (e.g. enneagram) are a different spectrum of emotions, not linked to Feeling per se.

    This may not be correct, but it is what I'm working with.

  9. #9
    Remember, Humanity. Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    You still haven't caught onto function order yet though. INFJ is still Ni-Fe-Ti-Se--Ne-Fi-Te-Si, because when in INFJ mode, that is generally how one's functions play out.

    So you haven't got Ni-Fe-Fi, but rather Ni-Fe with elements of Fi-Ne.
    Of course I did, and I did quit it.
    Also, the other post is in the wrong thread.

  10. #10

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    Universal consecutive function order is a myth, as is "looping". Some people actually thrive spending the majority of their existence in the first and third functions in combination. That's why we have naturally extra introverted and extra extroverted people. When pulled back and observed at scale, the contrast is striking and the validity obvious.

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