The psychology of hunters

[prplchknz]

As a vegetarian, I have more repsect for people who kill the animals they eat for meat than people who want some prepared cut from a grocery store, don't want to think about where it came from. At least those hunters are able to face the fact that they are taking a life to sustain their own.

I know several people who hunt. They eat the meat. They shoot to kill and minimize suffering. I think there is some pride in what they accomplish, pride in doing having done something difficult.

Killing for sport and especially relishing in the death, that is disgusting.

does it count if i sometimes make the animal noise of what it once was? probably not, but ok

 

[Kullervo]

Has anyone here actually been on a proper deer hunt before? I come from an area where it is quite a big thing.

Sometimes you go out into the wild for a full week or more, stalking your animal. Hunting isn't just about the kill, it's the whole experience of having to track the deer down. Then, of course, you have to carry it all the way out again. This is totally different to the big game trophy hunting (or fishing), which I don't approve of either. Those obese douches who shoot lions from a Jeep deserve all the shit they get. You need to be fit and determined to actually hunt, it is essentially hiking with guns.

If this is not enough of a distinction for you: understand that deer become pests if their numbers are not kept under control. Better this is done through hunting in a humane way, than through aerial poison drops.

 

[Bush]

The psychology of the hunter totally depends on the hunter.

• I'm sure there are some out there who truly believe that it is their duty to, say, help keep the population in check. Whether or not the goal is misguided, that's a mindset of nobility. Hell, it can even be seen as selfless. .. sorta. Because they're doing a duty. .. you know what I mean.
• Some hunt for sport but recognize that they are killing living beings for fun. They're aware of it, and so they respect it all accordingly.
• Some hunt for sport but use the ideas that #1 uses as bullshit rationalizations, because they can't face the fact that, indeed, they are killing an animal for fun. They say, probably nervously -- "well, it's uhm, keeping the population in check!" They totally don't want to face reality or take responsibility for their actions.
• At the bottom rungs, the lowest scum, you have folks who don't think twice about torturing animals. "Haha! Look at them there hole I blew in them there leg! Lookit tryn'a get up!" God damned psychopaths.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Hunting is part of our collective culture. Yes, our ancestors did it and a lot of us still do it to this day. Hunters utilize the animal for food. They use every part of that animal. In rural areas around me, it is often what feeds poor families. It literally is sustenance.

I don't know if the OP is equating psychopathy with hunting in some peverse way? But I can say if so, that comparison is based in ignorance. Both of psycopathy and hunters.

Trophy hunting should be discussed as a separate category, honestly.

If the OP and those with similar views wants to live his/her life according to their own desires and thoughts, who am I to say otherwise but this trope of "the blood-thirsty hunter" is just fallacy and based in ignorance.

 

[GIjade]

Has anyone here actually been on a proper deer hunt before? I come from an area where it is quite a big thing.

Sometimes you go out into the wild for a full week or more, stalking your animal. Hunting isn't just about the kill, it's the whole experience of having to track the deer down. Then, of course, you have to carry it all the way out again. This is totally different to the big game trophy hunting (or fishing), which I don't approve of either. Those obese douches who shoot lions from a Jeep deserve all the shit they get. You need to be fit and determined to actually hunt, it is essentially hiking with guns.

If this is not enough of a distinction for you: understand that deer become pests if their numbers are not kept under control. Better this is done through hunting in a humane way, than through aerial poison drops.

There are non-lethal methods.

 

[GIjade]

I don't know if the OP is equating psychopathy with hunting in some peverse way? But I can say if so, that comparison is based in ignorance. Both of psycopathy and hunters.

No, not all hunters, but some.

If the OP and those with similar views wants to live his/her life according to their own desires and thoughts, who am I to say otherwise but this trope of "the blood-thirsty hunter" is just fallacy and based in ignorance.

I'm not ignorant about why people hunt or how. But there are some hunters who are just sick in the head, really. Did you watch any of the vids? I could post a lot more, but essentially, these guys believe that you should allow the animal to suffer until it's death instead of putting it out of it's suffering. There's a lot of excitement and laughter when someone gets their buck. And, there is always heavy metal music playing in the background. They are the ignorant ones, not me.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

No, not all hunters, but some.


I'm not ignorant about why people hunt or how. But there are some hunters who are just sick in the head, really. Did you watch any of the vids? I could post a lot more, but essentially, these guys believe that you should allow the animal to suffer until it's death instead of putting it out of it's suffering. There's a lot of excitement and laughter when someone gets their buck. And, there is always heavy metal music playing in the background. They are the ignorant ones, not me.

No hunter I am aware of will tell you they want or desire the animal to suffer. One, it isn't good for the meat. And two, it's just poor ethics. So, yes that would be psychopathic if someone gets off on the infliction of pain alone.

But are you certain you are separating the celebratory joy of a kill (hours on the hunt, time spent. Basically, celebrating a successful endeavor) with enjoyment of killing? There is a difference and a big one at that but from an outsider perspective it can look muddied.

That is why I mentioned ignorance. I say ignorant not as an insult but in the pure definition of that word. A lack of knowledge. In this case: the perspective of the vast majority of hunters.

I will give you some leeway. Yup. There are assholes out there whose actions speak louder than the majority of voices but it is important to balance them with the majority to form a more complete picture.

 

[Kullervo]

No, not all hunters, but some.

You insinuated in your OP that there was something psychologically wrong with "men who hunt" (i.e. all of them):

I wonder what you guys think of guys who like to hunt. Maybe watch these vids and see if you think they might just be a little insane.

I'm not ignorant about why people hunt or how. But there are some hunters who are just sick in the head, really. Did you watch any of the vids? I could post a lot more, but essentially, these guys believe that you should allow the animal to suffer until it's death instead of putting it out of it's suffering. There's a lot of excitement and laughter when someone gets their buck. And, there is always heavy metal music playing in the background. They are the ignorant ones, not me.

But you are showing ignorance.

You have been forced to backtrack from your original premise, which has about as much merit as me proclaiming that all women are hysterical, then going on to post a few videos of women losing their shit over trivia as "proof".

Hasty generalisation.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=26845]GIjade[/MENTION]

Also, what's wrong with heavy metal?

 

[gromit]

In rural areas around me, it is often what feeds poor families. It literally is sustenance.

That is how my mom grew up in rural New York. My grandfather worked for the union and when they went on strike then the family would fall back on hunted meat and what they grew in the garden.

When I was a kid, he knew all the wild berry patches in the woods because he had seen them in the off season while he was out hunting, and he would take us grandkids out with coffee cans to go berry picking. It's one of my favorite memories from my childhood. I had venison stew at their house too (when I was a kid, pre-veg years )

My brothers and sisters and I grew up in the city, so we are all kind of removed from that lifestyle. But my cousin still lives out there, goes deer hunting.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Trophy hunting should be discussed as a separate category, honestly.

This.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The thing is, we aren't animals in the wild and we aren't our ancestors. We've evolved beyond that. We're more civilized now and we, unlike the predators in the wild, have a choice.

That doesn't really address what [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] said. For some families, this can be the difference between nourishment and starvation.

I don't mean to gang up on you, but I don't think this can be reduced to black and white morality.

 

[Lark]

That doesn't really address what [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] said. For some families, this can be the difference between nourishment and starvation.

I don't mean to gang up on you, but I don't think this can be reduced to black and white morality.

It is a bit of a first world, urban elite perspective right enough.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

It is a bit of a first world, urban elite perspective right enough.

Right. I think this is where the viewpoints differ vastly. I don't want to explain people's choices away by this alone. I don't think that is fair. No matter what drives you to go veg/vegan is fine by me and really doesn't impact my life in any way one way or the other.

I really do seek to give a different perspective to those who may buy into the tropes without having any experience with those who hunt or their families. Basically, most who hunt aren't villanous.

I also don't want to excuse hunting on the grounds that it is only just done to feed families.

It is done for that in addition to more homogeneous reasonings and that hunting isn't murdering defenseless animals. As if their instincts aren't defenses! Honed by years by evolution. I have seen many hunters come back empty handed! It isn't as easy as it looks. Those deer get a whiff of you and they are gone.

Hunters merely see themselves as predator to prey. That it is a natural order.

But I want to express this to those who share the opinion of the OP: Have you watched any salmon fishing videos? What about A Dangerous Catch? Not as much outrage for them. No bambi effect. They aren't often called blood-thirsty but yet they celebrate when they have a catch. Bon Jovi is playing in the background. Sound familiar?

Why? Because it is man against nature. That is it. Please hold to your convictions but I ask for a little expansion on how you may see hunters. Not evil or blood-thirsty. They just value animal life in a different way than you. To them it is no dishonor in it. It is challenging nature and that speaks for the respect most have toward nature.

 

[Lark]

Right. I think this is where the viewpoints differ vastly. I don't want to explain people's choices away by this alone. I don't think that is fair. No matter what drives you to go veg/vegan is fine by me and really doesn't impact my life in any way one way or the other.

I really do seek to give a different perspective to those who may buy into the tropes without having any experience with those who hunt or their families. Basically, most who hunt aren't villanous.

I also don't want to excuse hunting on the grounds that it is only just done to feed families.

It is done for that in addition to more homogeneous reasonings and that hunting isn't murdering defenseless animals. As if their instincts aren't defenses! Honed by years by evolution. I have seen many hunters come back empty handed! It isn't as easy as it looks. Those deer get a whiff of you and they are gone.

Hunters merely see themselves as predator to prey. That it is a natural order.

But I want to express this to those who share the opinion of the OP: Have you watched any salmon fishing videos? What about A Dangerous Catch? Not as much outrage for them. No bambi effect. They aren't often called blood-thirsty but yet they celebrate when they have a catch. Bon Jovi is playing in the background. Sound familiar?

Why? Because it is man against nature. That is it. Please hold to your convictions but I ask for a little expansion on how you may see hunters. Not evil or blood-thirsty. They just value animal life in a different way than you. To them it is no dishonor in it. It is challenging nature and that speaks for the respect most have toward nature.

I dont really see it that way, at least not most of the time, sure its very possible to set up barrel shoots and I regard a lot of the safaris to be like that, elite white hunters out shooting aged lions who're half tame and approaching them for food, that sort of thing but if you're a fool you've no superiority over the wild.

A lot of the people I've known who're really serious about hating on blood sports or things like the bull run will express the most horrible glee at news that a bull fighter has been gored or a runner trampled, staying with that particular analogy, which I always wonder at, does the sympathy with the underdog, perceived underdog, or reverence for life, not extend to human beings, no matter how ill conceived you believe their actions to be in the first place.

There are blood sports which I dont like, which I cant say I'd want to be ringside for, having animals fight each other to death, like dogs or cockerels for instance, or "the hunt" when the "unspeakable goes in pursuit of the uneatable", in particular I hate the hunt because it is meant to, and does for many, remain symbolic of the "nobility" employing the "mob", ie domesticated dogs, to kill the "rebel", ie a wild canine, I also think that Badger baiting, hunting with ferrets or other things like that are detestable and more than a little sadistic.

People hunting for food can be sloppy and ugly, although its not as bad, if you research it, as the actual mass production of meat, which in its present form is unsustainable, the majority of the world, which does not have a meat diet like the first world, could not have a meat diet like the first world. Reading about and thinking about all that didnt influence me to become a vegetarian or vegan, which I did for two years largely because I felt like it and often find that sometimes the vegetarian options, such as rice stuffed peppers, are much, much more edifying than people imagine. Meat can be shockingly uncreative in preparation. Also I'm totally and utterly disgusted by the trend to under cook or barely cook meat now, all meat is "blue" now or virtually "tartar" in its preparation. Its not sushi and I dont believe it should be prepared that way.

Though I couldnt say that anyone adopting vegetarianism seriously because of concern for animal welfare or mass production will have an easy time of it, I know people criticised me for wearing a leather coat, leather boots and shoes, other animal products while I was living on the vegetarian diet, it was part of what annoyed me and eventually lead to my giving up that sort of a lifestyle in the end. I dont like a lot of the religious taboos on eating, Christianity is relatively free of them, apart from older cultural traditions like meatless fridays or fish on a friday but most people dont remember or practice those, I dont like the way that some of the more reactionary and sanctioning thinking from superstition or religion seems to re-emerge in a disguised way in the lexicon of political correctness.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION].
Didn't mean for it to come across as I was speaking for everyone. It's hard to talk in generalities without doing so.

 

[Lark]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION].
Didn't mean for it to come across as I was speaking for everyone. It's hard to talk in generalities without doing so.

Yeah, sure, no problem. It happens. At least it wasnt intentional, there's more than a few posters are talking for the big bad we without realising it.

 

[GIjade]

Ok, I'm too tired to respond to all of you separately - long difficult day. But yeah, I was referring to the videos I posted. And as for allowing the animal to suffer until it dies, it seems there a quite a few hunters who do that. They shoot it, wait an hour or two and then track it by it's blood until they find it. I know that not all hunters are like this. I've known many hunters in my life and they were decent human beings. But, there are also those who don't the see the "nature" connection, as some do.

Now, I should also tell you that while I understand what most of you have posted, I am a vegetarian, and I am not a speciesist; I regard animal life much the same as I do human life. I know that will be difficult for some to understand, but basically, I value both very highly. Therefore, I wouldn't take an animal's life unless my own life was actually being threatened by it. Same with humans. We're all sentient beings and I believe we can co-exist without killing each other. But again, that's just me, and I understand your feelings on the matter.