[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Anger in Type 6 vs Type 8

[aanule]

Anger doesn't come out in me like a fear - even of being controlled. That just pisses me off. The fear of being controlled comes out in our difficulty with deep, meaningful intimate relationships, difficulty with showing vulnerability, that sort of thing. Anger is always there, it is always available, like change in your pocket. Available to motivate or confront or whatever I might need it to do. An actual anger explosion is very rare in me at this point. It requires so much energy and I've learned better ways to approach things, over the years.

I'm an 8w9 by the way. I should get around to adding that at some point.

Now, that is terrifying to me. Manipulation via anger has got to be the worst kind... But, it makes sense. There's just something so incredibly sociopathic about that, though... You're removed from the anger, you just use it to get your way. Describes the last ten years of my life pretty accurately, though.

 

[windoverlake]

Thanks, everyone! Keep the good info coming.

 

[Entropic]

Anger doesn't come out in me like a fear - even of being controlled. That just pisses me off. The fear of being controlled comes out in our difficulty with deep, meaningful intimate relationships, difficulty with showing vulnerability, that sort of thing. Anger is always there, it is always available, like change in your pocket. Available to motivate or confront or whatever I might need it to do. An actual anger explosion is very rare in me at this point. It requires so much energy and I've learned better ways to approach things, over the years.

I'm an 8w9 by the way. I should get around to adding that at some point.

Yes, exactly. Anger is always there and yes, it's very singular. It takes very little to make me angry but when I am it's going to stick a long time until I entirely remove myself from the situation. I am working on trying to get better to not cover up my other feelings with anger. Takes time though.

 

[ceecee]

Yes, exactly. Anger is always there and yes, it's very singular. It takes very little to make me angry but when I am it's going to stick a long time until I entirely remove myself from the situation. I am working on trying to get better to not cover up my other feelings with anger. Takes time though.

Yes, it takes time and as you mature you find that not everything or everyone is worth the 8 nuclear option. One thing that helps is putting the anger in a stand by position. Put it in your pocket for a few minutes and listen to what people are saying. I think 8's have the capacity to be selfless, protective, magnanimous people but that level isn't going to be reached until they learn how to use the anger for constructive purposes. At least most of the time. I'm not asking for miracles here.

I also think I'm fortunate to have an ENFJ to observe. Even the most dickhead 8 can't ignore how diplomatic they are (even if they are manipulating). That whole "use your words" thing is something they are so good at vs our brute force methods, you learn to get better results with less bloodshed.

 

[Entropic]

Yes, it takes time and as you mature you find that not everything or everyone is worth the 8 nuclear option. One thing that helps is putting the anger in a stand by position. Put it in your pocket for a few minutes and listen to what people are saying. I think 8's have the capacity to be selfless, protective, magnanimous people but that level isn't going to be reached until they learn how to use the anger for constructive purposes. At least most of the time. I'm not asking for miracles here.

I also think I'm fortunate to have an ENFJ to observe. Even the most dickhead 8 can't ignore how diplomatic they are (even if they are manipulating). That whole "use your words" thing is something they are so good at vs our brute force methods, you learn to get better results with less bloodshed.

Doing the part in bolded, when angry, lol, that's a battle in and of itself. When I get angry I go straight into blame mode so I shut down any other ability to be receptive. It's only after I cool off that I can begin to actually process things, including my own emotions.

 

[Evo]

Such a good fucking thread.

 

[Cellmold]

Anger is a sweet drug.

Diplomacy is wasted on the diplomatic.

 

[Haven]

Had 8w7 father, and some 8s as friends and roommates.

I don't think it's all that useful to compare the anger of 6s vs the anger of 8s, because 8s are in the gut triad and they're all about anger, while 6s are not, and there is so much more variation among them.

I'm an expert at provoking anger in people, and IME 8s can't really get provoked like 6s. When an 8s is pissed they are out for vengeance, not, but 6s don't go so much for vengeance as they go for petty squabbles to put their mind at ease. What's scarier than an 8 or a 6 though, is a 9 that's good and pissed off.

 

[Kullervo]

Defensive anger vs offensive anger.

Look at the context in which said person gets angry.

 

[Patrick]

I'm a 6w5, married to a 5w4. For nearly three decades she has been saying I get angry for the wrong reasons.

I certainly don't see myself as an angry person, generally speaking. But I frequently react with a burst of anger when I'm blindsided or something doesn't go my way. It's usually some little thing that some people might just laugh over--like spilling coffee or making a blunder in a game. At that moment, I'm infuriated and raging against the universe, insisting that the thing should not have happened. But I also realize it's just a minor upset, so my anger dissipates half a minute later.

My wife, in contrast, sometimes mocks up anger to drive home a point. Or she'll seethe with resentment if she feels she's being mistreated in some way. But the only time she'll get truly, expressively angry is when she's dealing with a gross injustice. I think maybe then she "goes to eight" and exudes some domineering energy.

To me, injustice is usually just the way of the world: it sucks, but you have to choose your battles. And I figure that what goes around will come around anyhow. So, if it's something out in the world, not directly connected to me, I'll just shake my head and shrug it off. I'll feel sad for the victims but not vengeful toward the perpetrator(s).

But if someone insults me or nags at me or criticizes me, I'll instantly react with anger. I may be able to keep it inside--just clench my teeth and keep quiet--but the angry reaction has happened already in any case.

Tied in with that (and maybe it's more because I'm an INFP), I avoid conflict. If I must confront someone, I'll be as indirect as possible, and I'll probably postpone the confrontation as long as possible. That's because once conflict breaks out, it's always very personal to me. It's not just an issue that needs to be resolved or a disagreement that needs to be settled; it's somebody accusing me of being irresponsible, weak, wrong, or defective in some way--and I get very defensive about that.

In (verbal) fights I've had with my wife, she has sometimes told me afterward that I "fight dirty." She's an INTJ--very rational, but also provocative; she considers conflict just a good way to clear the air. But she notices that to me conflict is always personal; so I'll respond to a perceived threat with a personal counterattack. She finds that despicable--perhaps rightly so. But I don't know any other way to behave in a fight, and that's why I avoid conflict as much as I possibly can.

When I was a kid and got mixed up in schoolyard fights, most of the time I was just the victim of bullying. But a few times my anger peaked, and I exploded in violent fury. If the fight was short, I might then win. But if it dragged on, my anger would always dissipate, and then I'd be practically helpless. I couldn't fight at all when I wasn't angry.

I don't know many people of type Eight, but offhand I'd sum up the difference by saying that my Six anger is reactive and their Eight anger is proactive. They'll throw their weight around (gently or roughly) just for the heck of it, whereas I'm meek and mild until provoked. They're also more controlled about it, whereas when I get angry I'm pretty much out of control. Afterward, they remain self-assured; in contrast, I usually end up feeling ashamed for having lost my temper.

 

[Eric B]

And while this is of course not true for every 6 in every situation, Maitri makes it pretty clear that 6s are not an overly aggressive type in the sense that they enjoy embracing carnal desires, lust for life and spontaneously indulging in what impulses arise within them, including anger, which is a very basal kind of feeling. It arises from within the gut and body and is related to asserting boundaries and one's will. 6s may resort to anger, or perhaps more accurately, indignation, when they feel threatened and feel the need to assert themselves because they want to prove their own independence, but it's a different kind of anger from the 8. The 8 is angry over things that are wrong or untrue, when they perceive there to be a slight or some kind of injustice done to them or someone else they care for or just in the world in general, as opposed to the 6 whose anger is a reaction to the demands and expectations placed upon them and to free themselves of these expectations. It's more an attitude of rebellion.

I think the bolded is important because the anger of the 8 is more existential. It's more just a general anger at the world for not being the way it ought to be and the 8 has to set it straight, to make it just again. All the gut types are concerned about "being", how things are, the state of things, as opposed to head types, that are concerned with the perception of things, how to understand something.

Furthermore, the core emotion for each emotional center will be true for the types as well, where 8s will be driven as anger not just in the sense of feeling angry often and easily and embracing anger as an emotion, as much as they are driven by an existential sense of anger that goes beyond being angry at anything directly tangible and something that is currently occurring in the present moment e.g. getting pissed at someone or something. It's more that immediate feelings of anger simply tap into this deeper existential anger, an anger directed at the very state of the world itself. Similarly then, 6s have a fundamental sense of existential anxiety that underlies all their thoughts and actions, a sense that one can never truly be certain of the state of the world and it creates anxiety.

Why would anger always be fear-based? As an anger type, I can't say that's true at all. I personally find that anger is the first reaction to pain but inbetween pain and anger there is no fear that would give rise to that anger.

I do think this is true for some 6s though, covering up their fear with anger or rather, indignation. I also think some authors conflate and exaggerate the reactive formation of cp6 a lot with 8. In some cases perhaps if the 6 has an 8 fix because duh, they will react with anger the way 8s do it because why wouldn't they?, but overall, cp6 reactivity is more rebellion and tends to come across as overly paranoid and how they try to "stand up" against people they find to be oppressive. There is a sense of consciously felt victimhood and a refusal to be control as in they are trying to say that they actually can without you. There's a need to prove their competence. 8s don't have that. When 8s rebel against authority it's because it's unjust or unfair and they are utterly sure of their own competence. It's rare for 8s to question or doubt themselves and when they do, it tends to be more in the sense of whether they did wrong, if they hurt someone else who didn't deserve that hurt and how it validates their self-perception of being utterly bad people. 6s don't think they are bad but think they are good people in a bad world. 8s are bad people in a bad world.

Yes, I definitely agree. Anyone can be angry and is not unique or explicit to 8s. Anger is a human emotion and the distinguishing point is more that 6s do not have the existential anger the gut types have. I am referring to my girlfriend here, being a 6, and she's said that she often experiences indignation more than actual overt anger. That's why I compared it as such. It can be different for other types. She's 9 fix, also. 6s can also often be angry at injustice and supporting the underdog, but their sense of injustice has more to do with damage done to the common man.

Yes, I agree. The problem is that R&H use the word fear to describe how the types react to external stimulus, but it's not so much a fear as a consciously felt thing, as much as it is a disposition and a thoroughly dislike towards being put in such a position. I think the word fear is very misleading in this regard. The only thing I think one can really speak of as a fear in such a sense of being a fear, is the fear of pain which is a universally human state. All humans fear to be in pain and experience pain, physical or emotional, and the reason why R&H consider these "fears" is because all these states are deemed as painful for each respective type. It is not fear of being controlled, but it is the fear of being reminded of the pain that is felt when one is rid of one's power. For 8s, specifically, there is an idea of past victimization of being rendered weak/powerless that they stood up against, and the notion of seeking to control the environment is a reaction against to avoid to be put in a similar position of victimization of feeling weak and powerless again. Not because weakness and powerlessness in themselves are feared, but the pain associated with the state is.

Beyond that, I don't think it's meaningful to speak of it as a fear, anyway. This is true for all the types, obviously. With 6s, their fear is the loss of being abandoned in R&H lingo, but the reason they fear abandonment is because the state to be without guidance is painful to them, since they do not inherently trust themselves.

I'm a 6w5, married to a 5w4. For nearly three decades she has been saying I get angry for the wrong reasons.

I certainly don't see myself as an angry person, generally speaking. But I frequently react with a burst of anger when I'm blindsided or something doesn't go my way. It's usually some little thing that some people might just laugh over--like spilling coffee or making a blunder in a game. At that moment, I'm infuriated and raging against the universe, insisting that the thing should not have happened. But I also realize it's just a minor upset, so my anger dissipates half a minute later.

It seems I can relate to both 6 and 8. I seem to lean to 5-4-8 (or 5-4-9) but 6-4-8 makes some sense too. The 27 Tritype/Archetype Descriptions - Page 3 So adding the wings to the trifixes, it's probably 5w6 or 6w5, 4w5 and 8w9.

To me, injustice is usually just the way of the world: it sucks, but you have to choose your battles. And I figure that what goes around will come around anyhow. So, if it's something out in the world, not directly connected to me, I'll just shake my head and shrug it off. I'll feel sad for the victims but not vengeful toward the perpetrator(s).

"Connected to me" can include anything that reminds me of something that happened to me, or I can just identify with. This seems to be what has led me to take on the attitude described for the 8, above. (Angry that the world is messed up, because that's why things don't go right for me, and I can't expect things to be made right for me, but not others. But then it all becomes futile, and since "injustce is the way of the world", I find it hard to sympathize or empathize with others. It's like what good will it do, if it the problem can't be fixed? I'll just get angry when something directly affects me again).
I don't trust in "what goes around comes around". I hope, or more accurately wish it worked like that, but find it usually doesn't.

I couldn't fight at all when I wasn't angry.

That was a problem for me. I usually get angry at some ongoing thing, or something connected to some "life issue", but when a bully or something just starts something on the spot I wouldn't be in that kind of mood.