Mr. Robot

[EJCC]

She's my favorite character in this show. Angela's probably number two now that she's gotten her shit together.

Initially, Angela reminded me a LOT of people we went to school with. Saw some of the worst parts of myself in there too. Now she's just... her own thing. In an amazing way.

Can't wait to see what's in store for her in season 3.

I have no idea how to interpret her scenes with Whiterose now!

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, I like the Angela arc.... I just have NO idea where it is going (or even of some of the places it might have been without me knowing it!) She's definitely branched out from being just a "character type" at this stage into something more complex.

Joanna grew on me by end of Season 2. I think Corneliussen's acting went up a notch too, as she finally honed in on her character. (She's 5'11" as well... which is pretty cool.)

 

[violet_crown]

Yeah, I like the Angela arc.... I just have NO idea where it is going (or even of some of the places it might have been without me knowing it!) She's definitely branched out from being just a "character type" at this stage into something more complex.

Vulture's TV podcast recently had an interview with Sam Esmail. He talked about how Portia Doubleday's performance Season 1 is actually what evolved Angela into what she is. He talked about the scene with her in the shoe store towards the end of that season and how well she portrayed Angela's ambivalence between her personal feelings and what the trajectory she's on requires she becomes. It was a really interesting discussion.

One of the most impactful scenes from Season 2 for me was her singing the Tears for Fears song.

Unrelated, but the actor who plays White Rose is also Shang from Mulan and the scientist with the baby Velociraptors from Jurassic Park.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah. BD Wong. I think I posted something about him earlier, about how he won a Tony (I think?) in a broadway production based on Madame Butterfly. He was in an X-Files episode and a ton of other stuff over the years. He reprised the character in Jurassic World too... he became moustache-twirling evil.

 

[violet_crown]

Yeah. BD Wong. I think I posted something about him earlier, about how he won a Tony (I think?) in a broadway production based on Madame Butterfly. He was in an X-Files episode and a ton of other stuff over the years. He reprised the character in Jurassic World too... he became moustache-twirling evil.

White Rose is such a bad bitch. He's doing really great work in this series.

 

[Totenkindly]

I went online last night and downloaded the first season. W00t!

I did find that scene and from what seemed familiar, it seemed to be the same dialogue lines spoken in the SUV by Mr. Robot versus Elliot, but the location looked different (it was at the amusement park). Then again, Elliot's been so mentally fubar this season (with locations), who knows? Man, now I need to go back and rewatch everything!

That would be impressive if Esmail had some of the story figured out for over two seasons. That's hard because it becomes sprawling. then again, did he plan on a movie with the ideas at first, then realized there was just too much and he needed a series? Anyway, he wouldn't have to have all the specifics for both seasons, just any of the "overlap" scenes of importance. And sometimes you get an idea as the story moves forward and you can incorporate it as an echo later in the series. He gave himself a lot of leeway due to Elliot being an unreliable narrator, so conflicting details can actually be written off or ignored at times.

basically writing a serial narrative involves skill in (1) knowing how to effectively "seed" the storyline with thread beginnings that you can weave into subplots later (2) out locking you into anything and (2) using narrative devices that give you more flexibility rather than less.

White Rose is such a bad bitch. He's doing really great work in this series.

I personally think the character is pretty cool. I'm surprised I haven't heard a lot of bitching in trans community about it, considering how much people bitch over every other media depiction of someone crossing the gender divide. I can't imagine it's not because people aren't aware of it, since there seems to be a high degree of tech interest in at least the online trans community and so this is the kind of series that would be watched; then again, the techie trans friends I have aren't the ones usually bitching, and the character happens to be some kind of variant-gender portrayal but it's not the focus of the character (versus a movie like The Danish Girl... but then again there was a kerfluffle over Laverne Cox doing the remake of Rocky Horror).

Anyway, I think it's a great character and I have no clue of White Rose's ultimate motivations for anything.

 

[violet_crown]

I personally think the character is pretty cool. I'm surprised I haven't heard a lot of bitching in trans community about it, considering how much people bitch over every other media depiction of someone crossing the gender divide. I can't imagine it's not because people aren't aware of it, since there seems to be a high degree of tech interest in at least the online trans community and so this is the kind of series that would be watched; then again, the techie trans friends I have aren't the ones usually bitching, and the character happens to be some kind of variant-gender portrayal but it's not the focus of the character (versus a movie like The Danish Girl... but then again there was a kerfluffle over Laverne Cox doing the remake of Rocky Horror).

Anyway, I think it's a great character and I have no clue of White Rose's ultimate motivations for anything.

Isn't Laverne Cox trans? Why are people upset she's playing Rocky?

Also: re: White Rose: I saw a scene at the end of S01E10 after credits that I hadn't seen the first time.

She and the CEO of ECorp are meeting at some Bohemian Grove-esque location and discussing the hacks. White Rose is presenting as male in the scene. What I remember is that the CEO says something to the effects of "We know who did the hacks, we just aren't doing anything about it yet." And then more vague, ominous things are said.

Here's the scene:

I had wondered for a while whether or not the Chinese dignitary in the scene's with the FBI agent was played by White Rose. I remember he had a bunch of clocks on his walls and had a wardrobe of beautiful clothing worn by his "sister". We haven't gotten to that scene yet, so I'm not sure yet.

If it is him, then we can say for sure that the Dark Army's involvement in the 5/9 Attack was to ensure the ascendancy of China. A move that the CEO was counting on from Season 1 based on the fact that his initial suggestion for bailout funds to the Fed is having the Chinese buy T-Bills to cover what the US gov couldn't pay. These things being true, the questions I have then areb a) how much of a grasp Elliot had of the implications of the attack when he launched them and b) if this is what he was talking about when he was describing something being "above" rather than "in front of" them. Why would the Chinese be preferable overlords to anyone else? Or is it like Craig Robertson's character said that he's allowed to do what he's doing by more powerful people who benefit?

 

[Totenkindly]

Isn't Laverne Cox trans? Why are people upset she's playing Rocky?

Because she is a M2F transsexual, and Rocky is a crossdresser, so having a trans female play a male crossdresser conflates the two and confuses the public about the definition and validity of trans experiences and could possibly derail the attempt to have legislative protection, etc. (After all, for decades society was saying, "You're not really a man / woman like you think, you're just a disturbed woman / man with a clothing fetish, and so we don't have to protect you and in fact can just make fun of you." So this plays right into that misperception.)

You'd be amazed at how heated the conversation gets, to the point of people breaking off into factions over stuff like this.

Also: re: White Rose: I saw a scene at the end of S01E10 after credits that I hadn't seen the first time.

I'll have to check it out again. See spoiler.

She and the CEO of ECorp are meeting at some Bohemian Grove-esque location and discussing the hacks. White Rose is presenting as male in the scene. What I remember is that the CEO says something to the effects of "We know who did the hacks, we just aren't doing anything about it yet." And then more vague, ominous things are said.

Here's the scene:

I had wondered for a while whether or not the Chinese dignitary in the scene's with the FBI agent was played by White Rose. I remember he had a bunch of clocks on his walls and had a wardrobe of beautiful clothing worn by his "sister". We haven't gotten to that scene yet, so I'm not sure yet.

It's BD Wong, I'll tell you that much. But I don't know whether that means BD Wong is playing two characters or one character that flips genders. My impression based on scenes of Season 2 is that it is the same character.

 

[violet_crown]

Because she is a M2F transsexual, and Rocky is a crossdresser, so having a trans female play a male crossdresser conflates the two and confuses the public about the definition and validity of trans experiences and could possibly derail the attempt to have legislative protection, etc. (After all, for decades society was saying, "You're not really a man / woman like you think, you're just a disturbed woman / man with a clothing fetish, and so we don't have to protect you and in fact can just make fun of you." So this plays right into that misperception.)

You'd be amazed at how heated the conversation gets, to the point of people breaking off into factions over stuff like this.

Is the difference that someone who is trans identifies with one gender whereas someone who is a crossdresser just enjoys wearing the clothes? My apologies if this is an ignorant question. Where do people who are genderqueer fall within this?

I'll have to check it out again. See spoiler.

It's BD Wong, I'll tell you that much. But I don't know whether that means BD Wong is playing two characters or one character that flips genders. My impression based on scenes of Season 2 is that it is the same character.

Hm. Interdasting.

Unrelated, but I need to mosey on over to the Westerworld thread at some point. Saw the premier last night. Definitely going to watch, but I'm not clear on whether I'm sold on it yet. I will say that HBO has gotten high concept tits and violence down to a science now, tho.

 

[Totenkindly]

Is the difference that someone who is trans identifies with one gender whereas someone who is a crossdresser just enjoys wearing the clothes? My apologies if this is an ignorant question. Where do people who are genderqueer fall within this?

Well, trans gets used as a blanket word (it can mean transsexual, or transvestite, or transgender) so unfortunately various needs kind of are dumped into one huge basket. Genderqueer folk could be called "trans[gender]" and people who seek surgical reassignment to remove gender dysphoria can also be called trans[sexual]. That's another problem with the legislation that is too extreme (like when it tries to harken back to chromosomes as some kind of litmus test for public access), since there's a huge difference in needs and presentation between a transsexual and a genderqueer person.

Since for the transsexual the needs are much different than just enjoying dressing in cross-sexed clothing or presenting somewhere in the middle, this is where all forms of political activism even within trans circles can butt heads especially if certain areas within the trans spectrum might draw more attention than others. (If you're transsexual and visually fit within the gender box, no one notices you let alone cares in daily life. But when you break the boxes openly, well, that's when people flip.)

Anyway, to cut back to the original element here, I'm glad I've seen White Rose so far seem relatively unmolested by rampant activism.

Unrelated, but I need to mosey on over to the Westerworld thread at some point. Saw the premier last night. Definitely going to watch, but I'm not clear on whether I'm sold on it yet. I will say that HBO has gotten high concept tits and violence down to a science now, tho.

That, they have. Then again, I saw Animal House and Angel Heart (as examples) way back in the 80's [boobs and blood is a cinematic staple], so...

 

[1487610420]

dat flashback tho - most of you weren't even born

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, this started last night again too -- Season 4 opener, last season. They are bringing the story closure as per their plan, so I'm hoping it pays off wonderfully.

(I actually like when writers control the ending, versus TV studio / networks deciding to end something because of lack of revenue coming in.)

I missed third season, but I have all three on Bluray, so I'm going to record this and start watching the series as makeup, then catchup and watch the final season before the finale airs hopefully.

It's kind of the series I love to be confused by. Some great reveals, with an unreliable narrator.

 

[cascadeco]

Well, this started last night again too -- Season 4 opener, last season. They are bringing the story closure as per their plan, so I'm hoping it pays off wonderfully.

(I actually like when writers control the ending, versus TV studio / networks deciding to end something because of lack of revenue coming in.)

I missed third season, but I have all three on Bluray, so I'm going to record this and start watching the series as makeup, then catchup and watch the final season before the finale airs hopefully.

It's kind of the series I love to be confused by. Some great reveals, with an unreliable narrator.

Not only is it clever and interesting, it has really compelling characters and great acting. All of that makes for a great show and they don't come around often. I didn't realize they were deliberately ending it at 4 - that's good.

Season 3 was great! I think it got a bit darker than the earlier seasons. Sadly I'll be waiting til season 4 comes out on dvd before I get to see it - but I can wait.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I'm so far behind. Whenever I break up with someone, I stop watching our shows. Not because memories blah blah, but because I'm too lazy to figure out where I left off.

We broke up twice, so I have no fucking idea where that would be.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm so far behind. Whenever I break up with someone, I stop watching our shows. Not because memories blah blah, but because I'm too lazy to figure out where I left off.

We broke up twice, so I have no fucking idea where that would be.

love is so complicated. or maybe it complicates things.


well, you might have to suck it up like me and just watch the whole damn thing straight through, lol

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, none of my DVR scheduled records worked, so I basically just started plowing through all the Bluray copies (Seasons 1-3). The final episode of Season 4 aired right before Christmas, and I just got to Season 4 last night. It was a hell of an opener. Won't comment further on that, since it's a huge spoiler.

However, something that made me laugh in s4e1 -- I saw Jake Busey on screen, then happened to catch his last name (character's) was Lomax. I had to go check it out. Yeah -- it's an inside joke or maybe some weird cross-movie continuity, because in the film "The Firm" (1993), Jake's dad Gary Busey played a sketchy PI named Eddie Lomax, and 26 years later Jake Busey is playing a sketchy lawyer named Freddy Lomax. This could go as far as just being a purposeful pun, or one could even try to make the case they exist in the same universe and Eddie Lomax had a teen kid in The Firm we never saw and Freddy is him, all grown up. Anyway, I was amused.

----

My feelings about the various Seasons.

Season 1 -- pretty great, and of course it's got all the original mystery of what's going on with Elliot and Mr. Robot. It was kind of self-contained so the series could have ended there and the narrative was generally complete. It was the season that generated all the buzz.

Season 2 -- More confusing, not as good as season 1 in terms of big picture / overarcing narrative. Esmail seemed to lose himself in the rabbit hole a bit, and there's a jarring shift in narrative around Elliot partway into the season that makes sense on paper but isn't as much fun while watching. It felt like it was still rather searching for "What comes next" in terms of plot as well. Joanna get more narrative, with the disappearance of Tyrell. I mean, the thing is, even when Mr. Robot isn't as good, it's still better than a lot of shows (in its favor) and pushes forward; it's just here there's too much convolution in the various plots without much clarity about what the goals are, so it's easy to feel lost. Grace Gummer (Meryl Streep's daughter) is both good and annoying as the representative FBI investigator... and I'm glad some of the other characters eventually start calling her out in Season 3, to justify my feelings.

Season 3 -- Definitely a step back in the right direction, and the middle of the season is a hell of a ride. Esmail makes a clearer throughroad for all the characters and their plotlines come together by end of season. The Irving character could have been very derivative but Nick Cannavale makes him pop -- he's just such a unique actor. It's like a mix between professional fixer + used car salesman. We also get more clarity on White Rose, although the ultimate goal is still rather mysterious. Gummer's character gets rounded out and I found more sympathy for her. No character is sacred either, it's never really clear who will survive to the season end. I will repeat again how great the season's middle episodes are, especially in ratcheting up the tension + dark humor (Elliot and Mr. Robot really go at each other), and it all ends in unexpected ways in the finale, which again might have served as a makeshift series ender if it hadn't been renewed. I was really satisfied with this season.

Michael Christofer was well cast in this as the head of E Corp too -- he's always playing shady, slimy characters (and he's good at it), but his version of Jerry here feels more nuanced. He's ALMOST a caricature but never really goes there, and he manages to play scenes that others might have played more sentimentally without that fake sense of pathos, he plays them more pragmatically even if you can tell he cares under the surface.

 

[Totenkindly]

So okay, I have watched five episodes now of Season 4. (8 more to go to finish the series.)

- I'm feeling like I did reading the last Dark Tower book by King, it feels a lot like the story is winding down and getting smaller as characters continue to be removed one by one. I'm not sure I like that approach, I didn't necessarily like it in THe Dark Tower either... I remember feeling like the first half was decent with the onset of Mordred but the overall effect of the latter half felt like the story was getting smaller, not bigger.

- Episode 5 was a drop back to a "heist" type story which I really enjoyed although a few elements of it seemed very improbable to me. But the most interesting aspect of it:

The narrative was done so well that I did not notice that no one talks in the bulk of this episode, aside from a line at the beginning about "it's okay, we don't have to talk if you don't want to," and ending with a line insinuating "we should talk" or something. Literally that is the only dialogue, the entire fast-paced narrative is carried by visuals, action, and music, and occasional texts + written messaging. The Vulture reviewer was going on about how artificial SOME of the moments felt... and meanwhile obviously it didn't feel artificial to me at all because i never consciously noticed.

 

[Totenkindly]

I couldn't stop, and just finished Mr. Robot.

What a fucking brilliant show. Glad it stuck the landing. I was figuring everything out over the last few episodes, but... wow.

 

[Totenkindly]

So out of the four seasons, Season 2 was the most convoluted and problematic. It's too bad it contributed to loss of viewership, because the last two seasons were pretty stellar and gutsy.

I think he also pissed off some of the audience when he threw it a gimmicky twist that could be justified but eroded some amount of reasonable trust, with the revelation that Elliot's plotline over the first six episodes or so was not actually literally -- it was a fantasy he constructed to avoid confronting the reality the knock on the door at the end of Season 1 was the police coming to arrest him and throw him in jail and he's actually been in jail the last three months.

Esmail also mid-loaded most of the largest stuff for the late-middle of each of the last two seasons (although Season 3 finale is pretty crazy as well), so as to give a lot of time for closing things out. Finally, a writer/showrunner who understands that you need time to wind DOWN a story and reach an emotionally satisfying conclusion, rather than just leaving everyone hanging after the climax of a major plotline. There's always been enough space given for the dramatic elements to breathe and reach their own natural resolutions.

Esmail does use a lot of pop culture references which on occasion seem forced but often fit in well -- I feel like he and Tarantino are the two guys who consistently know how to make unexpected but entirely understandable (after the fact) music choices. Usually for Esmail, this is the episode/title screen opener, as there's no real theme song; but it involves some internal music choices as well. I think he was saving up the most obvious musical choice for the ending, and he DOES unload it at the perfect time, in the opening of the two-part series finale.

What else could it have been? Styx's "Mr. Roboto". I think reddit was talking about this for awhile as a necessary ender, and Esmail doesn't disappoint. I just like that it meshes with the mood of the opener too.

White Rose:

I love how she's a trans woman but they never really go into it. It's just part of her identity but it doesn't get politicized at all in the show. At most, we do get a flashback sequence with her lover when younger, who accepted her as a woman, but who suicides after his family forces him to marry someone else and Zhang herself (still a male at the time, and he still works professionally as Zhang even if she does not identify that way, it's a costume for her) is to blame in part because they had a plan for her to accept an ambassadorship to the US where they would have been able to be together but Zhang sells out to accept a local position that would give her more immediate power but also preclude them from being together for a long time. He kills himself, and the blood is partly on her hands, and now it makes sense why she is investing everything in building her Machine. Power and money are one thing, but people are driven by human longings and by the heart, not the head; she wants to use the Machine to reunite with her love and make the entire world better so that similar pain can be fixed for everyone else as well, it's the dream she sells to Angela to win her support earlier. Her dream is both crazy but also is something that would appeal to everyone -- is it a BAD dream? It's not clear, because we all long for second chances and for our pain to end, even if the pain of loss is what shapes us and even can make us stronger and better people. Anyway, I never felt like casting BD Wong tarnished the role, although he's a gay male demographically; I felt like he did the role justice. Such an interesting character.

Dom and Darlene and that resolution:

I like how Darlene is essentially bisexual, and Dom is a lesbian, and they end up coming together -- not just because of sexuality but because both are lonely people who long to find someone real. They are both just lonely tortured souls in life. They are also very different. If I had to pick alignments, Dom = LG, and Darlene = probably CN with Good tendencies. Esmail risked a lot in Episode 10 conclusion, because he didn't give the audience the conventional ending, which would have been emotionally fulfilling but a bit conventional and also not necessarily the best thing for the characters. Darlene wants them both to go to budapest and is terrified to go alone because she hates being alone, Dom feels like she cannot leave her responsibilities even though her family is now safe and she has been suspended from her job for six months. Dom leaves Darlene at the airport, after they both make their pleas, and it's really convincing but neither is budging. Then Dom changes her mind and can't leave the airport, so she rushes back to get on the plane, while Darlene tries to go but then has a panic attack at the gate and runs into the bathroom and they don't see each other. The episode ends with both having each other's ending; Darlene gets her shit together, decides she will embrace being alone and thus doesn't get on the plane (she's going to stay, without running!), while Dom DOES get on the plane and stays despite Darlene not getting on, and manages to fall asleep for real for the first time in years. They don't end up taking that trip together, although any lesser show would have gone that route; instead, they both become stronger by doing what each character needs individually. And maybe that difference explains their attraction --each of them represents something else the other character needs. But it's a bad thing to base a relationship on, so maybe once they both grow, they'll find each other again.

The Window incident:

Here's another case where Esmail put everything in clear sight but the audience was misdirected and it put us right in the shoes of Elliot. The episode is explained in the first season -- Elliot's father pushed him out the 2nd story window and he broke his arm. Well, Elliot was not pushed out the window by his father, except in a roundabout way. He actually smashed up his room when his dad came in, and then leaped from the window to escape. He did this because his father abused him.

All this series, Elliot has been suffering DID, he's full of rage and confusion, he has glossed over parts of his past, he is so detached from real connection with others, he cannot stand being touched; and we all know that it's typically severe childhood trauma that typically contributes to the development of DID, because the conscious mind can't deal and so other personalities are constructed as support and safety mechanisms to enable them to cope. We also saw his father collapses publicly, and all Elliot does (after saying he won't forgive him) is take his coat and go into the movie theater and start talking to the Mr. Robot persona.

Long story short, it's all been super obvious that something like this likely happened, and it's not a shock when it's unveiled, and yet it still feels shocking and traumatic in the episode where Krista is forced to make Elliot dig into this prematurely. It also makes it more poignant to understand that Mr. Robot is actually the idealized father (Elliot has been merging with / working with him since Season 3) to make up for the bad father he actually had.

The whole bit with Elliot (series spoiler, so read at own risk):

It became clear a season back or so that there was another personality, because Elliot is told something by Darlene, and neither Elliot or Mr. Robot recall the incident -- hence, another persona must have been involved.

We already knew about Mr. Robot, who is in the persona of a "better" version of Elliot's father. That was the season 1 twist. We also see that there's a child version of Elliot running around in there. it becomes a lot more clear in the final episodes, and in the climax of the finale it's finally spelled out beautifully: The person we have known as Elliot through the entire run of the show is not actually Elliot. It's just another one of his personas, the one the real Elliot created in his own image to strike back at society, express his rage and fear and anger, act proactively, and make the world a better place for him upon his return.

This person never had his own name, he's just referred to as the Mastermind, he's just part of Elliot's personality pack that resembles his real life family -- Dad the protector, Mom the accuser, Elliot the boy, and now the Mastermind who looks like normal Elliot. We also find out that Darlene knew from the start that this Elliot was not her original Elliot who she ran away from because she didn't know how to help him after the childhood abuse that contributed to Elliot's original DID, but because they were both doing fsociety together, and they were growing closer, she just embraced it because she wanted so badly to be close to him and not give it up.

The thing is, the mastermind actually grew and changed and became a better person. It's what enables him to accept his own place and cede control back to the real Elliot, who has been trapped in a loop prison inside his mind with a better world (sans Darlene, who he was always close to) while the Mastermind was in charge. It's like a death and a birth in the final shot of the series. Esmail just totally nails this transition. it's beautiful and heart-breaking and wonderful and sad.

Esmail even weaves the fourth-wall asides into is -- we, the audience, are also observers in Elliot's mind, the silent personalities watching the main ones take action.

A lot otherwise to discuss, but I'm kind of burned out....

 

[Totenkindly]

So I've ended up watching the finale like 3-4x already and end up crying each time. Also rewatched epsiode s4e7 again -- I like how Esmail takes what could be a cliche reveal and leans into it by setting the episode up as almost a stage play, with various acts, overly dramatic music, and lots of mood and ambiance. I think it helps sell what's unfolding by embracing it and even being a bit meta-aware of it.

For those who don't know, Vera is back at the end of Season 3 and figures prominently in a few episodes in Season 4. (He's the drug dealer who Elliot inadvertently breaks out of prison in Season 1.) he's a weird character, because he's little more than a street thug with ridiculous aspirations but is full of profound and heady language and ideas. I still am not sure if I buy him as a real person, but that's not Elliot Villar's (the actor's) fault, because I just don't know well someone could sell that part. But Villar's all in and I can't imagine a better performance of it, it's again just a writing issue and it's pretty much on the edge for any scene he's in between believable and incredulous. However, it kind of fits with all the accentuation of Episode 7 and bringing the drama to a head. So I guess it works? Especially because Esmail gives the proper amount of space for the scenes to breathe. It all feels organic and we have time to process everything along with the characters. (Esmail has typically gotten that part right. He never shirks on empty space/silence.)

Certainly the smart tech/hacking angles of the series have appealed to me, but I think overall it's been more that these are people living on the fringes, who have never felt like they fit in, looking for purpose and validation and, well, others. All of them on some level seem profoundly lonely, especially Elliot, and it becomes more obvious as the series winds to the end no matter how Elliot tries to seem self-sufficient and indifferent to the void around him. There's even a sense that Elliot's issue stems in part from being so lonely that he needed ways to cope with that, and in a way it salves the loneliness. But all of them are lonely, even the "bad people" like White Rose and Jerry. A lot of them are either acting out of loss and loneliness or have somewhat consciously sold out their relationships as the price of grasping power to accomplish their will... and on some core level it still eats at them. Same with Darlene, and Dom. Even Krista, the therapist -- she's fundamentally lonely, I think Elliot mentions this in Season 1 as a reason he trusts her and thinks she could understand him.

I think the only ones who don't seem lonely are Irving in Season 3 (he doesn't seem bothered by anything) and Janice in Season 4 (she's a freaking psychopath), and it's like they simply view life as a series of practical and pragmatic decisions -- they have tasks to accomplish, and they see relationships and people as bartering chips or obstacles to be overcome. Irving is more a "nothing personal" kind of guy and seems a bit genuinely pleased when good things happen for people he's done the unconscionable to in the past as "part of doing business,"whereas Janice seems to revel in her ability to manipulate a situation to her desired outcome, she seems to get a rush out of it and inflicting pain on those around her.

Anyway, that's another reason I think the series resonates. Lost had a same undercurrent (live together, die alone), and this is a situation where last season of the series DOESN'T drop the ball, really.