• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Finding a career, now with slightly less existential dread!

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Alright I've said I would make a thread on getting the job you want, but you can't do that until you've figured out what you want to do with your life now can you!

So where better to begin than the beginning.

Growing up, we all have things we're passionate about, things in or out of school. Things we never get bored of regardless of how ADD (or ADHD like me) we are. Before you can decide what you want to do, it helps to think about who you are as a person, what are you good at. But not only that, what are you good at that you love doing? Something unique to you that might not necessarily be common for everyone. This thread isn't for those who've known what they wanted to do all their lives and are already pursuing that, but for those who don't. Also, take note now that this thread will not be a follow your dreams and you'll be happy and that's the end of it kind of thread. That can be the case, but isn't always for everyone. Frequently life doesn't work out the way you want it to (it didn't for me). Often, it works out the way it needs to for reasons you wont understand until later (like it also did for me).

So what are you good at? Or better yet what do you like to do? Ever since I was little I've always loved talking to people. I was the precocious little kid making friends with all the adults. Hell, I'd try and talk to a brick wall if you let me. So I knew that whatever I did, it needed to involve people, specifically, communicating with them. Maybe you love computers and coding, maybe you love animals; maybe you love underwater basket weaving. We all love something, and I loved talking.

In middle school I remember writing a paper on Gun control (this was right after columbine) and that has always struck me as the beginning of my political leanings.

I was lucky to get into an academic magnet high school. After being bored and essentially teaching my geometry class because our teacher was the damn tennis coach, I decided to go into the International Baccalaureate program. Loved it. I loved history and physics, and theater, especially theater, and played a bunch of sports and was really involved yadda yadda yadda. Note the reason I'm telling you all this is that being able to tell your personal story in a compelling way is ESSENTIAL to getting a job down the road. It will also give you some insight into how I've made my decision. I knew I didn't want to be a periodontist like my Dad, and my grandpa had been a very well regarded attorney and everyone in my family thought that's what I should be.

You need to figure out what you love, what you are good at, and what has the potential to be a good remunerative career. Money isn't equally important to everyone, but it is always important. As long as you make enough to support your family and be happy that's all that matters.

I knew I wanted to be a political science major in college. I knew what I was interested in and never looked back. I wish I had listened to my dad and double majored in business or finance or accounting as well. That would have been useful but its water under the bridge now.

Don't be like me kids and study for your damn SAT's or ACT's or whatever it is that the kids are doing these days. I test well and did well, but take that shit seriously, if I had studied I probably could have gone almost anywhere in the country I wanted to. As it was I went to the University of Florida and got paid to go there (scholarships for the win!). If I could go back in time and tell myself to take my studies more seriously I would. I joined a fraternity and loved every minute of it, but I was lazy and didn't work as hard as I should have and could have. I could still have had just as much fun as I did, and I would have more to show for my time there.

Anyway, I took the LSAT's and didn't really study and this time it bit me on the ass more than it did with the SAT's. I still got into law schools but they were 3rd tier ones. And it was embarrassing that I didn't do better on them. Take that shit seriously. Ultimately, the way things went is the way they needed to. I wouldn't be where I am today if things didn't go exactly the way they did. I went to Law School and wanted to love it, and did enjoy some of it, but became bored. In my second year I had taken to opening a tab or Real Clear Politics or politico or whatever in addition to the notes I was taking. My mind had begun to drift and there was nothing I could do about it. It was at this time that I realized how much I loved politics, a love that you all still see to this day. It was also in this time period that I joined the forum.

I left Law School, and worked delivering furniture for a summer. That sucked and gave me some insight into what I didn't want to do. I then began volunteering at the GOP headquarters in my city and worked on Rubio's 2010 senate campaign. I loved it and set up an internship with our congressmen beginning in the spring of 2011. I moved to DC and loved interning, but got tired of not making money. I got an opportunity to Lobby with the girl I worked under on Rubio's campaign. Always make connections and nurture relationships. Networking is key. In a world where everyone has a college degree or more and has great things to say about themselves who you know is as important as what you know. Well the Amendment to Dodd-Frank I was lobbying against was passed and we all were let go (thats the way it works up there). And I ended up at a think tank working for the head fundraiser doing Florida donor research. I ended up also being an assistant and that wasn't my gig so I ended up coming home to FL.

My mom was a realtor and so I took a turn selling houses for a year and a half, and didn't really enjoy it. I was out NETWORKING at a chamber of commerce event downtown and met a guy who I had a 30 minute conversation with, he took my business card and I thought nothing of it. I got a call a month later from his boss telling me he was a financial advisor, their offices top producer and that he thought I was wasting my time in real estate. I interviewed with her, a process I will describe how to dominate in later posts, and was hired after maybe the second interview. I then got my securities licenses, the series 7 general securities license, the series 66 to be a registered investment advisor and my 2-15 health, life and variable annuity license. I had a good year at that company, met all the production metrics got invited to a week long all expense paid trip to New Orleans for top producers and generally enjoyed myself. My boss left that company to pursue another opportunity, and the office quickly collapsed without her. All the other advisors left, and there had been some bad blood between her and the other advisors. I had to leave that office before it was shut down, the writing was on the wall. I followed my boss to her new company. I leapt without looking and taking the time to figure out what kind of financial shop would be right for me. I actually only got along with the top producer guy, my boss and another trainee who left. There was a bad environment there and it was the death of that office.

I went with my boss to her new gig and it sucked from the get go, the company was trying to build a financial shop from the ground up and didn't know what it was doing. There were no processes in place and trying to do business was like pulling teeth. They were originally an Insurance company so there was a huge emphasis placed on selling insurance and they had a down market clientele that I was not used to working with, and who mostly ended up being a waste of my time. I worked high net worth markets and small business owners and young white collar professionals at my first financial job. I was as unhappy as I had ever been and was already looking for a way about by about last November. I made a promise to myself that I would find something right for me, and that I would kick the tires on all the financial shops I needed to in order to find the right one. In January, I was still with the same company and on a conference call the whole company got shut down by a SVP from the parent company. Security walked in and company reps were there to talk about severance packages. Everyone else was floored as there had been no heads up about this. Thousands of people were let go. My bosses boss was let go.

I'm tired of writing, and will cut this short. I looked at a bunch of different jobs and ended up reconnecting with a guy who had tried to recruit me away from my first financial job when I met him at a NETWORKING event downtown. Originally his firm wasn't really even on my radar screen. He sent me a message over linkedin (get on that shit) and I came in not really expecting much. I really liked everything they had to say, and their shop was very successful and had a great culture. More importantly (this is after several interviews) I really liked the guys in there and the guy I will be working under. One of my fraternity brothers actually works on the same team I'll be working on and it will be nice to have him to connect me to everyone. I finally took the time to find the right job for me with the right environment, and the right mix of guys. The opportunity is great, their business model is great, and I will have a greater chance to succeed and make the kind of money I want to than I ever had before.

I mentioned earlier that things go the way they need to, even if that's not the way you want them to in the moment. If I hadn't left Law School, gone to DC and came back, networked the way I had and met the people I did, I would never have met the love of my life. I would never have been in town at that moment doing that exact thing. I wouldn't have downloaded tinder and I wouldn't have met my girlfriend on it. The twisted path that has led me to this current place has been extremely painful at times and seemed like there was no light at the end of the tunnel until there was. Keep hope, don't let life get you down, and know that the things you are going through now are turning you into that great person you've always wanted to become.

This is the first of many posts. This one is just to show you my story and show that things can turn out all right even when at the time you think they won’t. I'll go into resumes and interviewing and networking and all that other stuff, but I thought this was more important to start off with.

EDIT - I should have mentioned that this job will have me speaking to people all day long face to face where I am at my best. It will allow me to use my God given talents to their greatest effect.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
funny how an odd set of coincidences can lead to meeting someone you adore...
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
I do hope there is some good participation in this thread. I put rather a lot of effort into that first post.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
^Thanks for your awesome story! Maybe I will share my story once all the fine details get ironed out within the next couple of years. :)
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
This can also be an ask Disco questions thread. I know my story may be of limited usefulness, but I'd be glad if anyone had any questions. I'll post more specifics about interviews and resumes etc. when I'm not so burnt out.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,195
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I do hope there is some good participation in this thread. I put rather a lot of effort into that first post.
Is there a specific sort of participation you are after? Do you prefer the focus remain on what you plan to share here, and member Q/A, or do you want others to share their career building stories as well?

Either way, it sounds like this will be a useful thread.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Is there a specific sort of participation you are after? Do you prefer the focus remain on what you plan to share here, and member Q/A, or do you want others to share their career building stories as well?

Either way, it sounds like this will be a useful thread.

I'm up for all of it. Anything that will be helpful to others on their career journeys!

What ever would be most effective I guess. I would hate to leave it overly broad and have the thread not turn into anything.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I look forward to you doing so.
Here's a preview. I learned that if you agree to help out an acquaintance, anticipate what he or she wants and go above and beyond but also set clear boundaries. You never know what can come from it...

I am not saying to be a doormat or a suck up but that if there an great opportunity to help someone and demonstrate your natural skill-set, then go for it. That's how I got my current gig and how l tend to make my few but useful connections.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,605
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Cool. I'm at work now, so I'll have to give the OP a more thorough read on my lunch break. If I have time, I'll provide my own life narrative in order to get feedback from Disco and anyone else interested in contributing.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Mike Rowe: Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you:


Other Mike Rowe lessons ...

The point about passion is important. if you make it your goal to achieve a particular dream, a particular vision of how you want your life to be, you are stacking the odds of success against you. Success in life rarely happens that way: just about everyone who finds success pretty much stumbled into it.

Except "stumble" isn't quite the right word. It's partly by accident, but it's partly caused by "who you really are" as a person. Who you really are, the kind of person you are, is the best indicator of where you will fit in. This is what Disco is describing above: who he is as a person is a talker, and he's really good at it, and he developed it into a skill of networking with people.

Me? I'm good at communicating ideas, but I an NOT a talker, and the thought of networking with people bores me to tears. Who I am as a person is a thinker: I think differently than most other people I know (and I treasure those friends who think more like me). I see problems and solutions that other people cannot readily see, never mind readily articulate. I ended up as a software developer, but I originally wanted to be a physicist, to the point of getting the PhD. You'd think that being a physicist is a thinking job I'd be suited for. And I am suited for that, especially everything regarding thinking and discovering things about physics. But it turns out that a significant fraction of what professional physicists do is NETWORK. Ugh. And beg for grant money. Double ugh. You'd be surprised, but because physics is an academic field of research (and not very focused on teaching) and its funding is mostly public, your success is based on what other people think of you: do they know you, do they like you, do they admire your work? And without the knowing/liking, the admiration that is key to getting a good position is unlikely. In software development, the people who pay you admire you because you get the job done and done well, and they're even willing (perhaps too willing) to put up with miscellaneous negative personality quirks as long as they don't appear to get in the way of getting the job done. Therefore, my need to network and schmooze is much less than in physics. That said, learning to network a bit can do wonders for job opportunities and careers - I just don't enjoy it as a primary activity.

So don't come up with some sort of singular dream that you want, like becoming a rock star, and grudgingly take a "day job" to make ends meet until you become super famous and rich. Instead, find a "day job" that other people are unwilling or unable to do that you find easy - well, not easy, but easier for you than others. One indication that you've found the right job isn't that you are working less (I'm generally rather unhappy if I'm working less - sooo boooring), but rather that you are working MORE. Why? Because if you are working more, that generally means that you are "in the flow", that doing that job engages you on a level where you can devote most of your energy to it and ironically feel energized by doing it. That's how I feel when I'm solving real life problems and puzzles: I just do it without really trying, and I'd fit into any career where that is the essence of the work. Disco is in his element when he's talking with and connecting with people.

What ENGAGES you? Not what fires your passion and dreams, but rather what IN REAL LIFE have you done that you can lose yourself in it to the point that it doesn't feel like work? That is what should guide your career choices.

I'll stop for now, as I am looking forward to hearing what Disco has to say about interviewing, etc.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Mike Rowe: Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you:


Other Mike Rowe lessons ...

The point about passion is important. if you make it your goal to achieve a particular dream, a particular vision of how you want your life to be, you are stacking the odds of success against you. Success in life rarely happens that way: just about everyone who finds success pretty much stumbled into it.

Except "stumble" isn't quite the right word. It's partly by accident, but it's partly caused by "who you really are" as a person. Who you really are, the kind of person you are, is the best indicator of where you will fit in. This is what Disco is describing above: who he is as a person is a talker, and he's really good at it, and he developed it into a skill of networking with people.

Me? I'm good at communicating ideas, but I an NOT a talker, and the thought of networking with people bores me to tears. Who I am as a person is a thinker: I think differently than most other people I know (and I treasure those friends who think more like me). I see problems and solutions that other people cannot readily see, never mind readily articulate. I ended up as a software developer, but I originally wanted to be a physicist, to the point of getting the PhD. You'd think that being a physicist is a thinking job I'd be suited for. And I am suited for that, especially everything regarding thinking and discovering things about physics. But it turns out that a significant fraction of what professional physicists do is NETWORK. Ugh. And beg for grant money. Double ugh. You'd be surprised, but because physics is an academic field of research (and not very focused on teaching) and its funding is mostly public, your success is based on what other people think of you: do they know you, do they like you, do they admire your work? And without the knowing/liking, the admiration that is key to getting a good position is unlikely. In software development, the people who pay you admire you because you get the job done and done well, and they're even willing (perhaps too willing) to put up with miscellaneous negative personality quirks as long as they don't appear to get in the way of getting the job done. Therefore, my need to network and schmooze is much less than in physics. That said, learning to network a bit can do wonders for job opportunities and careers - I just don't enjoy it as a primary activity.

So don't come up with some sort of singular dream that you want, like becoming a rock star, and grudgingly take a "day job" to make ends meet until you become super famous and rich. Instead, find a "day job" that other people are unwilling or unable to do that you find easy - well, not easy, but easier for you than others. One indication that you've found the right job isn't that you are working less (I'm generally rather unhappy if I'm working less - sooo boooring), but rather that you are working MORE. Why? Because if you are working more, that generally means that you are "in the flow", that doing that job engages you on a level where you can devote most of your energy to it and ironically feel energized by doing it. That's how I feel when I'm solving real life problems and puzzles: I just do it without really trying, and I'd fit into any career where that is the essence of the work. Disco is in his element when he's talking with and connecting with people.

What ENGAGES you? Not what fires your passion and dreams, but rather what IN REAL LIFE have you done that you can lose yourself in it to the point that it doesn't feel like work? That is what should guide your career choices.

I'll stop for now, as I am looking forward to hearing what Disco has to say about interviewing, etc.

If you think Networking is scary you should try sales!
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,195
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Me? I'm good at communicating ideas, but I an NOT a talker, and the thought of networking with people bores me to tears. Who I am as a person is a thinker: I think differently than most other people I know (and I treasure those friends who think more like me). I see problems and solutions that other people cannot readily see, never mind readily articulate. I ended up as a software developer, but I originally wanted to be a physicist, to the point of getting the PhD. You'd think that being a physicist is a thinking job I'd be suited for. And I am suited for that, especially everything regarding thinking and discovering things about physics. But it turns out that a significant fraction of what professional physicists do is NETWORK. Ugh. And beg for grant money. Double ugh. You'd be surprised, but because physics is an academic field of research (and not very focused on teaching) and its funding is mostly public, your success is based on what other people think of you: do they know you, do they like you, do they admire your work? And without the knowing/liking, the admiration that is key to getting a good position is unlikely. In software development, the people who pay you admire you because you get the job done and done well, and they're even willing (perhaps too willing) to put up with miscellaneous negative personality quirks as long as they don't appear to get in the way of getting the job done. Therefore, my need to network and schmooze is much less than in physics. That said, learning to network a bit can do wonders for job opportunities and careers - I just don't enjoy it as a primary activity.
I prefer the highlighted, too.

When I went into physics I thought it would get me out of having to do so much writing. Clearly I was wrong about that. I originally wanted to do astronomy, but when I got into the physics prerequisites and some interesting lab work, I was hooked and never left. I have worked in physics jobs since finishing grad school. Yes, I have to write proposals and do some networking, but the nature of my job has made that much more tolerable than in some environments. I have done very well at exploiting opportunities, but I must admit I have also been damned lucky. I have never had to go through a truly competitive hiring process. The few job changes I have made were arranged through networking - staying in touch with old bosses and colleagues.

Now it seems my luck is finally running out. The job that for several years was almost paradise has been slowly turning into hell, due to management turnover and a (re)prioritization of process over goals. I applied for a different job last year in a very competitive pool, and didn't get it despite being overqualified. I am convinced I won't be able to just find a perfect fit job out there, I am going to have to make one. That is OK, and I will gladly sacrifice income for autonomy and work environment, but I am not seeing the usual clues and hooks and openings that point me in the right direction. In my experience, when despite my best efforts I don't get something, it has meant that's not the right thing for me. I need to look elsewhere. OK - but where?

What ENGAGES you? Not what fires your passion and dreams, but rather what IN REAL LIFE have you done that you can lose yourself in it to the point that it doesn't feel like work? That is what should guide your career choices.
This is a good way to think about it. If Disco is a talker, and you are a thinker, I am probably first and foremost a planner. I think this has helped me get funding so consistently for my group: I can lay out a convincing and credible approach for what we want to do. I am also a good writer and presenter (it's the in-person, one on one stuff that is more challenging).

Much to think about. I, too, will look forward to the interviewing discussion. In my ill-fated job application, I had to do a phone interview. It was not fun - I do much better in person.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Except "stumble" isn't quite the right word. It's partly by accident, but it's partly caused by "who you really are" as a person. Who you really are, the kind of person you are, is the best indicator of where you will fit in. This is what Disco is describing above: who he is as a person is a talker, and he's really good at it, and he developed it into a skill of networking with people.
What if an individual doesn't really know who he is? Is it about trying on several different hats to see which one fits best? What would you recommend?
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What if an individual doesn't really know who he is?
No one ever does, when you phrase it like that. It's always a matter of degree.

Is it about trying on several different hats to see which one fits best? What would you recommend?
It's about experience.

The problem of choosing a career arises because we're asked these questions when we're too young, before we've really tested ourselves. So a child chooses things based on what he knows and sees, which means public figures: actors, politicians, athletes, musicians, police, firefighters, doctors, and so on.

But most of the people in the world work invisible jobs, jobs that no child even knows exist, that all get lumped under categories such as "blue collar" or "white collar", all of which hides how much value all of those people bring to the world.

Your electricity almost never goes out. Someone did that.
Your internet connection works. Millions of people did that.
You go to the grocery and there is always more than enough food for everyone. Tens of millions of people did that.

And. We. Take. It. All. For. Granted.

All of this shit works. And it doesn't work because it was commanded to be that way. It just evolved out of culture and human interaction and thousands of years of history, and it is all so unbelievably complicated if you ever try to take a close look at it.

If you got rid of those invisible people, the world would fall apart. It has happened on a small scale before. Read about Uganda under Idi Amin. There was widespread resentment of "foreigners" in the country. It was easy to vilify them, just as Nazis vilified the Jews. The foreigners were mostly Indian merchants. Well, since he was a dictator, and he could, he kicked out all the foreigners and gave their businesses to citizens (cronies and the like, mostly). The result of kicking out all of those merchants was the utter collapse of the economy, one that was already rather sick. The Indian merchants were what was keeping that economy alive. The people who received the businesses got the capital, and got the money, but they didn't get the one thing that is impossible to get, the tacit knowledge of how to run that business. It all went under.

This might seem like a huge tangent, but it isn't. There's a whole bunch of invisible stuff going on all around you that is essential to the existence of civilization. That means in order to figure out what works for you, you have to look for it and try it out. As Mike Rowe put it, one guy saw that sewage cleaners were in short supply in one place, so he started a business doing that and made a killing. Does he "like" cleaning up sewers. Not really. But it was something he could do well that very few other people were doing. It's not heroic and no one will hold a Star Wars like celebration for him - but it pays a lot of money. And there is a deep satisfaction in knowing that you've done something well.

It's difficult to give direct, step-by-step advice, because the knowledge is "tacit", it cannot be taught by reading a book. It's like dancing. No one ever learned how to dance from a book. They learned by doing it, and doing it badly at first.

So yeah. You try on a hat. You leave it on for a while. If it keeps on sliding off, look for another hat. If it stays on even when things get wild and crazy, you have found the right hat for you.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
My tips for interviewing/applying for jobs:

Apply! What's the worst they can tell you, no? Who cares? People say no all the time. I applied to a job I wasn't qualified for, and they called me and said that... but they also offered me the job I have now, which is the job I went to school for in the first place. So. There. Many times I am not qualified for a job.. but you know what I am qualified for? Story telling. And I tell my story well. And people are suckers for a good story. As they should be--stories are awesome.

Selling yourself really is the best thing you can do. Don't feel like you have anything to sell? Feel like desperation is dripping off of you like sweat from your arm pits in the middle of a date in a sauna? Do something with your time. Go to school and get some credentials in something--anything. Do some volunteer work. Do something and make something of your time that helps you sell yourself. When you have things to fall back on and be proud of it really impacts everything.
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,426
If you are at place X, then you got there somehow. If you didn't take the steps to be at place X you wouldn't be at place X. Maybe you would be at place Y.

Moral of the story: if you take steps, you will go places. And if you don't take steps, you will also go places, but more of the non-place kind of places, in a metaphorical kind of place.
:shrug:
 
Top