your mental illness is NOT an excuse to be an asshole

[Olm the Water King]

I've only skimmed through this, but it seems interesting.

This might have been mentioned already, but one thing I'd like to say is that when people are acting like assholes (whether they're ill or not), they don't usually know that they are. I used to hang out with this group of people who often acted in obnoxiously rude ways...Whenever I pointed it out to someone, they almost always expressed surprise, and I don't think it was feigned. Now, I have no idea if they were mentally ill or not..I don't think they ever went to a therapist, that's for sure. But yeah, they obviously weren't aware of it. And the couple of times they did show some kind of regret, that would soon be over and they'd go back to their old behavior.

Oh and this: One of them actually mocked *me* for taking meds and having problems... At some point he actually told me to stop taking them and listen to his advice instead...

But now I'm going off topic...

 

[Olm the Water King]

After dealing with an ex-husband and an entire family of in-laws with some kind of treated and untreated mental illness, I'm right there with you. What is worse, what is far more harmful than the drama, the total carnage they leave in their wake and the dysfunction they cause everyone and everything around them are the people who excuse their behavior. The ones who say - you don't understand, you don't care or you (as in the healthy person who is becoming progressively unhealthy breathing the same air) are the ASSHOLE here. Yes. I am the asshole and my real crime was saying out loud - YOU ARE ALL UNHEALTHY AND YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP! I said something. I didn't excuse their behavior or the actions. I didn't give them a free pass that the rest of the universe seemed to. I scooped up my children and I left, hundreds of miles away, undefinable by them.

That was a rant, yes but I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. And none of it helps the mentally ill people who do get help, take their meds and work towards as normal and happy a life as they possibly can. It only makes it harder for them.

I'm sorry for the problems you had in your life and I'm glad things are better now (based on your other posts, that does seem to be the case).

But I do have to go on a bit of a rant myself: When I was 15 and became severely depressed, I spent weeks reading about it on the internet, and eventually asked my mom to take me to a therapist, and when it didn't work out, I got another therapist, and changed all sorts of different meds from then to now (I'm 29). I managed to work out some issues, still working on others...my university education and general progress in life suffered as a result, so I'm still catching up with that...all the while managing not to wreak havoc on others. I mean, I'm no angel..I've had my moments of anger, but no more than the average person. If anything, people who know me would describe me as nicer than most.

So yeah..Basically, I hope you're not basing your views of mental illness in general on your own experience. There's a lot of variety.

 

[ceecee]

So yeah..Basically, I hope you're not basing your views of mental illness in general on your own experience. There's a lot of variety.

Things have been very good for a long time for me. Everyone bases views on experiences to some degree my main concern at that time was my children. It was exactly the same as removing them from any kind of dangerous and unhealthy situation. I don't regret what I did for a second and there was more to it than what I posted here. My views of mental illness are on a case by case basis. The majority are nothing like what I experienced, in fact, my two close ENFP friends both have anxiety and some depression. It's not an issue to me and, unless they bring it up and want to talk about it, it's not discussed much at all.

 

[Jaguar]

Always the same old game of taking something out of context

Hold yourself accountable for what you post or don't post at all. And I'll repeat:

Just because someone doesn't do something your way, doesn't mean anyone is faking anything.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

For anyone who has mental illness or psychological issues and triggers, one way to approach this question of choice about behavior is to look at the point in time when the choice can be made. There are instances when the person with issues is not able to make a choice at the point of being triggered. The point in time when choice can be made is sometimes much further back. It may mean choosing an environment to live, work, or be in a relationship that will not press you to the point of pure reaction without choice. It may mean the choice to go to the doctor, the psychiatrist, the counselor, the choice to take your meds in the first place. The addict is best off making the choice to avoid environments and people who draw them back in. The PTSD survivor needs to avoid environments and people who trigger their reactionary states.

The question comes when you try to avoid the triggers, but they happen anyway. It's not a perfect world with perfect individuals, so mistakes will be made, but we do have more control over our limitations if we pan back far enough and make the choices before we get too close to the moment of breakdown. Consequences are important for everyone because it can help the person with illness or issues to be motivated to think it through and make the initial choices for prevention.

 

[Jaguar]

I think there are people who are not even capable of recognizing that they have caused problems for others due to their mental illness, so to me that's not a condition of accepting that sometimes this is just unavoidable.

Paranoid Schizophrenia. It was like dealing with two people when they lashed out. I was able to disconnect from the problem and not take what they were saying seriously. Do I think they knew they had a problem? Not at all. And with that illness, it's not unusual for the person to be in denial about it. Some schizophrenics go many years before realizing they have a problem and intervention can become the only option. That person aside, I know another schizophrenic - high functioning and actually, a brilliant mind. People used to make fun of him in an online group because they didn't understand his thinking and communication style, but for some reason I could easily connect his dots and explain it to other people.

 

[prplchknz]

not making an excuse but i've been banned for some things on here, and i still don't understand how they were bad, that being said i just try not to do those things, and I've learned to apologize and not do whatever i did to piss the person off as long as they tell me what it was, even if i don't think i had done anything wrong. this is not the same as asking for a free pass, this is more like shit i fucked up not sure how that is a fuck up but i've been made aware so don't do it again. it took me like 4 bans to learn this though. its more of i'm apologizing for making the person feel bad if that makes sense

 

[Poki]

not making an excuse but i've been banned for some things on here, and i still don't understand how they were bad, that being said i just try not to do those things, and I've learned to apologize and not do whatever i did to piss the person off as long as they tell me what it was, even if i don't think i had done anything wrong. this is not the same as asking for a free pass, this is more like shit i fucked up not sure how that is a fuck up but i've been made aware so don't do it again. it took me like 4 bans to learn this though. its more of i'm apologizing for making the person feel bad if that makes sense

That's just a social thing really. And yes, you are apologizing as you didn't mean to make them feel that way. In a group setting you can't really create that this is how I am and have to somewhat go my group niceties. So called social ettiquette. It benefits everyone to differing degrees.

Really you have 2 main scenarios. One is that you bite someone head off for an external reason...I know it's loaded word, but PMS is the most popular thing people use. It's not tied to the person at all, another would be an actual communication issue. Communication is a two way streak of understanding. If the point does not come across you both failed. One to understand and the other to explain. That some why we have psychologists that say "clarify" what you heard so the other person can reword. The speaker then needs to listen and see where the disconnect is between what is said and what the other person thinks. That is why we have "things should be done this way" then we have people that don't care if arguments or disagreements happen and can get over them in the blink of an eye and sometimes hashing it out is the easiest and least intensive way. Anyway...life is complicated. Some try to control it instead of themsleves, some try to adapt, and some just check out all together. All the Ti behind Fe. This is why Ti is inferior for Fe, they just go along with making things nice, not all the reasoning. But I that process they can become blind to that which is not "social niceties"and force it on people as if its a rule.

Which I swear IxFJS care more about Fe then dom Fe does. Like Dom Fe doesn't introvert it as much so they don't quite get as stuck in it as an IJ would. It's who they are, not what they see if that makes sense. Just trying to understand now and reason it out.

 

[Mole]

In a florid psychosis we are out of touch with reality, so we can't be expected to observe the social niceties.

For instance, paranoia is psychological preparation to attack, so we can't expect the paranoid psychotic to consider our feelings or even our physical safety.

But worse, the paranoid look for validation of their expectation to be attacked by inducing in others hatred and a desire to attack.

The paranoid are brilliant in inducing overwhelming hatred in others because it validates their paranoia.

See, they say, I was right all along.

 

[SD45T-2]

Hah I wish I could bring a camera to work sometimes for similar escapades.

Now I'm watching video after video of insane ladies and occasionally insane men. If I'm lucky I'll get insane transgender.

Here's another gem.

 

[kyuuei]

Hold yourself accountable for what you post or don't post at all. And I'll repeat:

Just because someone doesn't do something your way, doesn't mean anyone is faking anything.

And like I said in my posts, it is impossible to tell what is truly going on with people, particularly mental health patients. But with that disclaimer, there are certain patterns and clues in behavior that contradicts itself that correlates with people faking it. No where in any of my posts did I ever say "mental health patients have to do things my way or they're not real patients". That's something you extracted by pulling my one single sentence out of its context and hyperbolizing it.

 

[Jaguar]

And like I said in my posts, it is impossible to tell what is truly going on with people, particularly mental health patients. But with that disclaimer, there are certain patterns and clues in behavior that contradicts itself that correlates with people faking it. No where in any of my posts did I ever say "mental health patients have to do things my way or they're not real patients". That's something you extracted by pulling my one single sentence out of its context and hyperbolizing it.

Apparently you don't know what the word "translated" means. I suggest you go back and read my post to you.

You stated:

"Honestly, it is on people without mental illnesses to do research and figure out faking vs real attacks.. but a good sign of fakers are people who won't go get treatment. "

Again, one need not do what you think they should do to determine who is "faking." Not getting treatment for X isn't a means for figuring out who is faking anything nor is it proof of a "faker." As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, sometimes the people with the most serious of mental illnesses are oblivious to what they're doing. And on a side note, should anyone wish to disagree with your comments in this thread, or any thread, it doesn't give you the right to flip out on them as you did in an earlier post. Focus on the content.

 

[GIjade]

Really, you know, it depends on what type of mental illness it is.

 

[Tilt]

Apparently you don't know what the word "translated" means. I suggest you go back and read my post to you.

You stated:

"Honestly, it is on people without mental illnesses to do research and figure out faking vs real attacks.. but a good sign of fakers are people who won't go get treatment. "

Again, one need not do what you think they should do to determine who is "faking." Not getting treatment for X isn't a means for figuring out who is faking anything nor is it proof of a "faker." As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, sometimes the people with the most serious of mental illnesses are oblivious to what they're doing. And on a side note, should anyone wish to disagree with your comments in this thread, or any thread, it doesn't give you the right to flip out on them as you did in an earlier post. Focus on the content.

Totally agree. From my experience, people won't get help for many reasons besides just "faking it":

1. Genuinely unaware of the problem or the extent of the problem.
2. In denial.
3. Don't want the stigma or label.
4. Have tried treatment but they haven't found the right modality just yet.
5. Other well-meaning people try to help but don't actually consider/listen to what the individual wants/needs so they end forcing their agenda onto the person and he or she gives up.
6. May want help but other people downplay or dismiss the problems.
7. Are fully aware of the problem but just aren't ready or are scared to deal with it.

To accept treatment means that, on some level, you acknowledge that you have a problem, which can be a hard pill to swallow.

Of course, people do "fake it" in order to take advantage of the system or to get benefits but who are we to judge whether or not someone is "faking it" because their experiences weren't severe enough to warrant such a thing as PTSD... from whose perspective? That's yet another way of invalidating people who may actually need help. And this is why there are trained professionals to assess... even if there are many incompetent ones out there and there is some subjectivity in the diagnostic process.

 

[kyuuei]

Totally agree. From my experience, people won't get help for many reasons besides just "faking it"

The OP of the thread is, again and again and again, not about mental illnesses that are out of control, or oblivious, or anything else. The OP is clearly ONLY about people using a mental illness diagnosis as an excuse to do something even though that action has nothing to do with their illness (i.e. their illness is not influencing their actions), or people who fake mental illnesses to give them some justification for illnesses. There are obviously people with real mental illness concerns that do not get help for a variety of reasons. I work with them everyday. But this thread? Is not about them.

Edit: I just realized this sounds a lot more mean than I intended it to sound. but.. It is a bit irritating when people will decline bets on how long it takes typc to say, "But what about the genuine guys that need help?" in general because it literally takes no time at all. It was irritation, but it wasn't really irritation at you. So sorry that came off like that.

 

[Tilt]

The OP of the thread is, again and again and again, not about mental illnesses that are out of control, or oblivious, or anything else. The OP is clearly ONLY about people using a mental illness diagnosis as an excuse to do something even though that action has nothing to do with their illness (i.e. their illness is not influencing their actions), or people who fake mental illnesses to give them some justification for illnesses. There are obviously people with real mental illness concerns that do not get help for a variety of reasons. I work with them everyday. But this thread? Is not about them.

Edit: I just realized this sounds a lot more mean than I intended it to sound. but.. It is a bit irritating when people will decline bets on how long it takes typc to say, "But what about the genuine guys that need help?" in general because it literally takes no time at all. It was irritation, but it wasn't really irritation at you. So sorry that came off like that.

No offense taken. You make some really good points. Thank you for clarifying your stance.

 

[prplchknz]

The OP of the thread is, again and again and again, not about mental illnesses that are out of control, or oblivious, or anything else. The OP is clearly ONLY about people using a mental illness diagnosis as an excuse to do something even though that action has nothing to do with their illness (i.e. their illness is not influencing their actions), or people who fake mental illnesses to give them some justification for illnesses. There are obviously people with real mental illness concerns that do not get help for a variety of reasons. I work with them everyday. But this thread? Is not about them.

Edit: I just realized this sounds a lot more mean than I intended it to sound. but.. It is a bit irritating when people will decline bets on how long it takes typc to say, "But what about the genuine guys that need help?" in general because it literally takes no time at all. It was irritation, but it wasn't really irritation at you. So sorry that came off like that.

like i could not randomly lick her and blame my illness, because i know better, i might lick her because i want to damnit! and i have free will and if she wants to punch me she can but i can not say i couldn't help it because i can. i won't like being punched but if i licked her it would be with in the range of approriate responses. but if i licked her would not be sexual i just like the taste of human skin espeically after sweating i'll lick my own self if i'm sweaty cuz i like that taste. and i don't want to sleep with myself in a sexual way. i sleep with myself everynight. I truly can't help that because I am me.

 

[magpie]

The OP of this thread may only be talking about people blaming behaviour on mental illnesses that can't actually be attributed to mental illnesses and people faking mental illnesses as justification for behaviour, but it becomes more complex than that and this thread was obviously going to go in a more complex direction because no one can tell who is or isn't faking a mental illness. There are no patterns and clues in behaviour to indicate when someone is faking. The moment people in this thread started using the OP to talk about how to spot a faker by using their own experiences with mental illness and saying if people don't act exactly like me, then they're using their mental illness to justify their behaviour, things got out of hand.

 

[prplchknz]

The OP of this thread may only be talking about people blaming behaviour on mental illnesses that can't actually be attributed to mental illnesses and people faking mental illnesses as justification for behaviour, but it becomes more complex than that and this thread was obviously going to go in a more complex direction because no one can tell who is or isn't faking a mental illness. There are no patterns and clues in behaviour to indicate when someone is faking. The moment people in this thread started using the OP to talk about how to spot a faker by using their own experiences with mental illness and saying if people don't act exactly like me, then they're using their mental illness to justify their behaviour, things got out of hand.

I did not do that, i did not know she was histronic or faking until i got told by someone who would know and i know for a fact would not lie about that, no not her doctor because of hipaa. fine it was the house manager, there happy?

 

[magpie]

I did not do that, i did not know she was histronic or faking until i got told by someone who would know and i know for a fact would not lie about that, no not her doctor because of hipaa. fine it was the house manager, there happy?

To be honest I don't know what you're referring to and I wasn't even talking about you.

If you're talking about histrionic personality disorder and not histrionic the adjective then I'm confused as to why everyone keeps referring to hpd as a fake mental illness while also simultaneously diagnosing these people with a mental illness and I feel really bad for the people who've been diagnosed with it because they're in a no win situation where their feelings are simultaneously pathologized and treated as unimportant while also experiencing tons of stigma from all directions.