What Does This Election Represent To You?

[Dreamer]

On both sides of the aisle, there have been slogans thrown around in attempt to garner emotional enthusiasm for their candidate and to bring additional support to the polls. I’m not interested in the validity of any of these slogans in the context of this thread topic, so no need to defend your answer here, but I’m simply curious if this election means something more to you than a selection between two candidates. Does it represent Individual Liberty? Does it represent the Protection of Democracy? Does it represent maintaining or changing the idea of “What it Means to be an American” (that’s a convoluted one to be sure!).

Further, does this provide value, to extract meaning from the superficial, and to what extent might this be taken too far where the country finds itself divided via abstraction versus the issue at hand?

This thread topic can easily fall under the MBTI discussion of Sensors vs Intuitives and the value each bring to the table, but let’s keep this rather shallow, just to avoid as many tangents as possible in answering something that in itself, is highly subjective and vague.

 

[Lord Lavender]

As a outsider observing the events to me it means whether people will vote for 4 years more of national self harm and wherever people are willing to learn and change. If we are thinking a lil more high minded here I see it as on a philopshical level choosing Purgatory or Hell. Sure one choice isn't exactly amazing and appealing but its leagues better than the other worse choice (Trump is Hell). If I could vote I would feel repulsed at the thought of voting for Trump but Buden while I wouldnt be excited to vote for him or anything he at least passes the basic test and I could hold my nose and vote for him.

 

[The Cat]

It's a slow burn horror
all that's keeping all this spinning
is a gentleman's agreement
and in three days. The illusion breaks
no matter who wins
and a lot of people will begin to realize it

 

[Lark]

I've always thought that representative government is the poor cousin of responsible government.

Anyway, if governments can not be responsible or refuse to be responsible then I'm not sure they can achieve true representation either.

I prefer the idea of participatory democracy to a limited/representative democracy as Schumpeter understood it too.

The reason I do is that the more limited the democracy the less opportunity for the average individual to practice democracy, like if all democracy is going to be for most people is casting a vote during elections that often last a single day, it will be no wonder that apathy and technocracy or machavellianism will take over. So more participation, will mean more practice, more interest, personal responsibility, ownership and demands for accountability. Eventually, greater actual accountability.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

To me it reveals the true internal moral state of Americans. I'm not going to be able to trust a lot of people after this. I'll continue to show kindness, respect, and try to offer help in the world, but my trust has plummeted and how much will depend on the election result. Some damage is done regardless.

Strangely I also take less personally. Now that I see how genuinely and sincerely insane most humans are, I don't take anything personally. The majority of judgment is m00t, so even less of the bad I've experienced feels like it reflects on me in any way at all now.

 

[Red Herring]

I'm watching this as an outsider but consider it relevant to the entire planet.

So much depends on this election. How humanity as a whole will cope with climate change. How humanity as a while will get out of this pandemic. How humanity as a whole will cope with its economic consequences. 5% of all humans (well, those of them elegible to vote) currently have a lot of influence over the other 95%, whether they are aware of it or not.

On top of that (and maybe being an intuitive does play a role here) I am also looking at it as an indicator for macrotrends:
Will the wave of rightwing populism that swepped the world come to an end? Or is this the end of the age of western liberalism and international cooperation, of the values and lessons learned after World War II? Are we at the beginning of a new age of illiberalism? What kind of political and social system will dominate the 21st century? Have the technological developments in communication and social media of the last decade or two led to the breakup of society ? How powerful is subjective truth ("truthiness")? How much are enlightenment values still worth?



History books will have some very interesting things to say on the last four years. How they will be interpreted will also depend on what happens this week.

 

[dunce]

This election is meaningless to me but not entirely.

The democrats are backed by a set of corporations, let's call them A.

The republicans are backed by another set of corporations, let's call them B.

The board of directors in set A are the chief executive officers and primary shareholders of set B.
The board of directors in set B are the chief executive officers and primary shareholders of set A.

Essentially, there are two parties each one representing a different face of the same constituency. Whether Joe or Donald win is completely irrelevant and meaningless.

However, the balance of power must preserved. Any time a single party controls the entire part of government, the party becomes corrupt as the mutable law of politics states, that which tends towards absolute power is absolutely corrupted before it reaches it.

Therefore, even though I generally agree with the democratic party, I voted republican this year. In four years, I will asses which party is in control, and vote against that party. This brings me meaning.

Plus, I would not vote for Joe Bidden because he completely screwed the middle class through out his entire career aligning with credit card companies on a regular basis, selling out to the highest bidder, and I am middle class. I would rather have the greedy egotistical billionaire win than the greedy sneaky and limy millionaire, that way I know he will at least do a good job on the basis that he will look bad if he doesn't. The millionaire on the other hand is still operating on the plain of acquiring more currency.

 

[dunce]

To me it reveals the true internal moral state of Americans. I'm not going to be able to trust a lot of people after this. I'll continue to show kindness, respect, and try to offer help in the world, but my trust has plummeted and how much will depend on the election result. Some damage is done regardless.

Strangely I also take less personally. Now that I see how genuinely and sincerely insane most humans are, I don't take anything personally. The majority of judgment is m00t, so even less of the bad I've experienced feels like it reflects on me in any way at all now.

Let me ask you something, what countries do you trust? It seems like you are saying you won't trust Americans if Trump wins. May I ask, which countries' people then do you trust at the moment, in general?

 

[Firebird 8118]

This election is meaningless to me but not entirely.

The democrats are backed by a set of corporations, let's call them A.

The republicans are backed by another set of corporations, let's call them B.

The board of directors in set A are the chief executive officers and primary shareholders of set B.
The board of directors in set B are the chief executive officers and primary shareholders of set A.

Essentially, there are two parties each one representing a different face of the same constituency. Whether Joe or Donald win is completely irrelevant and meaningless.

However, the balance of power must preserved. Any time a single party controls the entire part of government, the party becomes corrupt as the mutable law of politics states, that which tends towards absolute power is absolutely corrupted before it reaches it.

Therefore, even though I generally agree with the democratic party, I voted republican this year. In four years, I will asses which party is in control, and vote against that party. This brings me meaning.

Plus, I would not vote for Joe Bidden because he completely screwed the middle class through out his entire career aligning with credit card companies on a regular basis, selling out to the highest bidder, and I am middle class. I would rather have the greedy egotistical billionaire win than the greedy sneaky and limy millionaire, that way I know he will at least do a good job on the basis that he will look bad if he doesn't. The millionaire on the other hand is still operating on the plain of acquiring more currency.

1) Ouch.

2) While I don’t agree with either party, I voted Democrat because I don’t think I can stomach four more years of Trump.

In the long run, I would want both parties destroyed as a huge stepping stone towards a more even playing field. But right now, I just want my fucking sanity back. The last four years have been a goddamn nightmare.

 

[Firebird 8118]

On both sides of the aisle, there have been slogans thrown around in attempt to garner emotional enthusiasm for their candidate and to bring additional support to the polls. I’m not interested in the validity of any of these slogans in the context of this thread topic, so no need to defend your answer here, but I’m simply curious if this election means something more to you than a selection between two candidates. Does it represent Individual Liberty? Does it represent the Protection of Democracy? Does it represent maintaining or changing the idea of “What it Means to be an American” (that’s a convoluted one to be sure!).

Further, does this provide value, to extract meaning from the superficial, and to what extent might this be taken too far where the country finds itself divided via abstraction versus the issue at hand?

This thread topic can easily fall under the MBTI discussion of Sensors vs Intuitives and the value each bring to the table, but let’s keep this rather shallow, just to avoid as many tangents as possible in answering something that in itself, is highly subjective and vague.

To answer the original question here:

This election means more to me than just having someone else in power. It means doing whatever I can to help protect the rights of my family and friends all across the ethnic, religious and LGBTQ+ mosaic. It means taking a moral stance against the constant abuse of power in this country. It means standing up and speaking out in the name of logic, science and common sense.

I cannot afford to be silent any longer. That’s how much it means to me.

 

[Firebird 8118]

It's a slow burn horror
all that's keeping all this spinning
is a gentleman's agreement
and in three days. The illusion breaks
no matter who wins
and a lot of people will begin to realize it

And so, the Emperor is wearing no clothes.

 

[dunce]

1) Ouch.

2) While I don’t agree with either party, I voted Democrat because I don’t think I can stomach four more years of Trump.

In the long run, I would want both parties destroyed as a huge stepping stone towards a more even playing field. But right now, I just want my fucking sanity back. The last four years have been a goddamn nightmare.

I don't hold it against you at all. Unfortunately seeing how New York and California handled the virus, and how Nansi Pelosi forced so many small Mexican businesses out while she was gallivanting around without a mask in nearby solons, all but confirmed my suspicions that the democratic party needs to be purged first. The problem with decimating small business, as has happened in the blue states, is that they employee 80 percent of the people - hence my Trump is a better bet for a strong economy.

Also speaking from personal experience in the last four years his tax cuts have resulted in a massive amount of job and compensation growth.

 

[Coriolis]

On both sides of the aisle, there have been slogans thrown around in attempt to garner emotional enthusiasm for their candidate and to bring additional support to the polls. I’m not interested in the validity of any of these slogans in the context of this thread topic, so no need to defend your answer here, but I’m simply curious if this election means something more to you than a selection between two candidates. Does it represent Individual Liberty? Does it represent the Protection of Democracy? Does it represent maintaining or changing the idea of “What it Means to be an American” (that’s a convoluted one to be sure!).

Further, does this provide value, to extract meaning from the superficial, and to what extent might this be taken too far where the country finds itself divided via abstraction versus the issue at hand?

This thread topic can easily fall under the MBTI discussion of Sensors vs Intuitives and the value each bring to the table, but let’s keep this rather shallow, just to avoid as many tangents as possible in answering something that in itself, is highly subjective and vague.

Elections always mean more than a selection between two (or more) candidates. That is because the candidates represent more than the sum of their stated plans and platforms. They represent values, visions for the future. Voters pin their hopes and dreams on them, as well as their fears and demons. In some sense, they can be seen as placeholders for all that their supporters consider right and good. Yes, this is all quite subjective, which is part of the problem. Voters choose based on these feelings, often without examining the cause and effect connections between what candidates want to do - or have done, in the case of an incumbent - and the likely impact on the voter's own life and their ability to live as they desire.

To the extent that this election is different, it is because the stakes are higher and the values and visions more clear cut. [MENTION=41232]Armaros[/MENTION]' A and B corporation groups may apply to our historical two main parties, but Trump, despite his desire to present himself as a businessman, has always been outside of that, standing it all on its head. Some of his supporters considered that necessary to break the logjam of two-party politics. If so, the cure has been worse than the disease. Reasonable Republicans - and there are many - have no more love for Trump than the average Democrat, though perhaps more to lose in giving voice to such an opinion, especially if they have political ambitions themselves. It will be interesting to see what kind of "de-Trumpification" the GOP undergoes - or doesn't - should he lose.

 

[dunce]

Elections always mean more than a selection between two (or more) candidates. That is because the candidates represent more than the sum of their stated plans and platforms. They represent values, visions for the future. Voters pin their hopes and dreams on them, as well as their fears and demons. In some sense, they can be seen as placeholders for all that their supporters consider right and good. Yes, this is all quite subjective, which is part of the problem. Voters choose based on these feelings, often without examining the cause and effect connections between what candidates want to do - or have done, in the case of an incumbent - and the likely impact on the voter's own life and their ability to live as they desire. To the extent that this election is different, it is because the stakes are higher and the values and visions more clear cut. [MENTION=41232]Armaros[/MENTION]' A and B corporation groups may apply to our historical two main parties, but Trump, despite his desire to present himself as a businessman, has always been outside of that, standing it all on its head. Some of his supporters considered that necessary to break the logjam of two-party politics. If so, the cure has been worse than the disease. Reasonable Republicans - and there are many - have no more love for Trump than the average Democrat, though perhaps more to lose in giving voice to such an opinion, especially if they have political ambitions themselves. It will be interesting to see what kind of "de-Trumpification" the GOP undergoes - or doesn't - should he lose.

I think you are wicked smart and you are right about Trump. I have no personal attachment to the fat man with carrot skin. But I do not believe in these grandiose visionary sentiments. When Abraham Lincoln free'd slaves for instance it was to expand the labor pool and maximize cheap labor. By freeing slaves he created a second class citizen pool of divided poor people (white vs black). The north's primary agenda was to expand slavery by renaming it in the constitution as servitude in corporate punishment among blacks and then to include a hybrids slave-worker class of whites to power their factories. In essence what was marketed as reform was really an expansion of that which was said to be reformed. This comes from an Angela Davis book, black panther during the 70's. So I never fall for these symbolic things because what is going to happen is going to happen. The economic forces are strong than the humanitarian ideals for both parties.

 

[Coriolis]

I think you are wicked smart and you are right about Trump. I have no personal attachment to the fat man with carrot skin. But I do not believe in these grandiose visionary sentiments. When Abraham Lincoln free'd slaves for instance it was to expand the labor pool and maximize cheap labor. By freeing slaves he created a second class citizen pool of divided poor people (white vs black). The north's primary agenda was to expand slavery by renaming it in the constitution as servitude in corporate punishment among blacks and then to include a hybrids slave-worker class of whites to power their factories. In essence what was marketed as reform was really an expansion of that which was said to be reformed. This comes from an Angela Davis book, black panther during the 70's. So I never fall for these symbolic things because what is going to happen is going to happen. The economic forces are strong than the humanitarian ideals for both parties.

The "grand visions" are often quite separate from the practical agendas of the candidates themselves. They do make convenient devices for motivating the masses, but as such can also take on a life of their own, with popular sentiment overflowing the intended bounds. Trump himself is a good example of this.

 

[ygolo]

So much depends on this election. How humanity as a whole will cope with climate change. How humanity as a while will get out of this pandemic. How humanity as a whole will cope with its economic consequences. 5% of all humans (well, those of them elegible to vote) currently have a lot of influence over the other 95%, whether they are aware of it or not.

It's even worse than that.

It may come down to just one state--like Florida or Pennsylvania.

It may end up in the courts and decided by a group of 9 people. Of those 9, maybe 3 of them have a chance to switch party lines (it is clear that there are party lines in the courts, no matter how often people preach that they don't exist). By default, the courts will be 6-3 pro-Trump.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm watching this as an outsider but consider it relevant to the entire planet.

So much depends on this election. How humanity as a whole will cope with climate change. How humanity as a while will get out of this pandemic. How humanity as a whole will cope with its economic consequences. 5% of all humans (well, those of them elegible to vote) currently have a lot of influence over the other 95%, whether they are aware of it or not.

On top of that (and maybe being an intuitive does play a role here) I am also looking at it as an indicator for macrotrends:
Will the wave of rightwing populism that swepped the world come to an end? Or is this the end of the age of western liberalism and international cooperation, of the values and lessons learned after World War II? Are we at the beginning of a new age of illiberalism? What kind of political and social system will dominate the 21st century? Have the technological developments in communication and social media of the last decade or two led to the breakup of society ? How powerful is subjective truth ("truthiness")? How much are enlightenment values still worth?


History books will have some very interesting things to say on the last four years. How they will be interpreted will also depend on what happens this week.

This for the most part sums my thoughts about this, but with one exception. The problem is that if US goes red again that will surely significantly lower the desirability of the US itself. What means that their debts and deficits will become even worse as the rest of the world takes things much more into it's own hands. The first time it was anomaly but if this repeats then this is a trend, that will trigger a response. For example why support businesses that deny climate change or openly push for market based healthcare or money in politics ? While at the same time you are making extra efforts to do everything you can about this at home ? Or your country is simply very vulnerable to climate change and that is a problem for your living standard and food supply. In other words this means that such people will require action on a number of issues and if US fall out of the loop ... that is mostly their problem. Since all of this in the end is "supply and demand" issue.


What overall is the real bottom line in this choice for me. Since this is the point where the post ww2 world order could just end.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Tl;DR This election is an existential one to me. As a 21-year-old, I want to feel optimistic that this country's future for my generation, but this election makes it difficult, despite the clear choice.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous and angry about the election. Before I get into that, I'll break down what I'm a little bit optimistic about. I want to hope desperately we can finally get on track to being a country that lives up to its stated principles and can take substantive measures to overcome the wounds and bigotry of its past. Instead, I find an election where I have to decide between an administration that will rip open flesh wounds and allow the maggots of bigotry to feast gleefully, or an administration that might prove feeble in closing the wound altogether.Biden was far from my first choice during the Democratic primaries, but I voted for him without hesitation and with the utmost enthusiasm (primarily to remove Trump from office). I have no illusions about the extent of the reforms he will pass when in office, but I appreciate he's reached out to the more progressive wing of the Democratic Party and not been ostracizing *as a presidential candidate* towards that wing of the party. It shows a willingness to adapt, even for reasons of political pragmatism, and be associated with bolder, better policies across many issues e.g. healthcare. If he wins, that's the part I'll be relieved about. Truthfully, that's what I'll be feeling if most candidates win from now on; relief. Political candidates should rarely, if ever, be treated with the enthusiasm and following of rock stars, so my expectations are low in that regard.

Now, what I'm worried about in each outcome:

Biden Re-elected
Now, for what I'm nervous about. If, in the best case scenario I hope for, Biden is projected to win (projected, not even talking official, finalized results yet), Trump will immediately cast doubt on the veracity of the votes and undermine the process in a way that makes Bush v. Gore seem like a chivalrous debate. He and his party/enablers have repeatedly attacked the election process, closing polling stations, restricting access to mail-in ballots during a pandemic, etc. Considering he's indicated several times he might not accept the results of the election if they don't go his way, that frightens me a bit. The results could range from a confidence-denting constitutional crisis to his armed supporters taking the streets. I hope I'm dead wrong.

Trump Re-elected
This, to me, is worse than the negative consequences of the short-term scenario of violence if Biden wins. This administration has already set back any minuscule progress made on various issues by 10 years and will set it back even more if re-elected. We will already rue the long-term consequences of conservative justices confirmed at a record rate across all levels of the judiciary; imagine if he's re-elected. This administration has emboldened white supremacists and far-right views to enter into the mainstream. This administration has attacked immigration and immigrants (and spare me the BS about "Oh, it's just legal immigration we're worried about."), from inhumane separation practices towards those seeking asylum to restricting legal immigration. It's personal for me as the son of two immigrants who fled an oppressive government. It's gonna lead to even more polarization and extremism in a country where advocating for basic human necessities as a guarantee is already considering an extremism. That's just the tip of the iceberg for me, but yeah. That's about it.

 

[tinker683]

For me it is nothing less than the last chance of my country to show me that it isn't completely lost, that we are still at our core the America I was raised in, the America I was taught existed by the very people who betrayed the values they claimed to love in the pursuit of Sticking It To The Libs(tm).

If Biden wins, then it means that we as a people still have a chance, a chance at reuniting, a chance of being better than what we are today. How much Biden will get done will depend on how much of Congress the Democrats get. If they don't get the Senate, or get only a very small majority, then I expect more girdlock as the Republicans will suddenly decide to care again about the deficit and the safety of American lives.

If Trump wins again (legitimately), then it will mean that the majority of my countrymen and women do not give a shit about facts, that they do not care about the truth, or that they value anything other than winning at whatever cost. It will put to bed once and for all the hope of anything bipartisan again for the extended future as a second Trump win will show that there is no value in it. A second Trump win will show that partisanship wins elections. It will mean that seeking out foreign aid will become the norm, that showing up armed at voting areas and running voters of the opposite side off the road is how elections are going to have to be done. It means it will be perfectly acceptable to tell my countrymen that the coronavirus isn't a big thing even as it kills 700-1000 people a day.

After all, if Trump wins legitimately, then it means my country saw everything for the past four years and, just like in 2016, chose not to care enough to stop it and not just stop it, but consciously decided, "You know what? I'm OK with this." At that point, we will have fully earned our damnation.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This for the most part sums my thoughts about this, but with one exception. The problem is that if US goes red again that will surely significantly lower the desirability of the US itself. What means that their debts and deficits will become even worse as the rest of the world takes things much more into it's own hands. The first time it was anomaly but if this repeats then this is a trend, that will trigger a response. For example why support businesses that deny climate change or openly push for market based healthcare or money in politics ? While at the same time you are making extra efforts to do everything you can about this at home ? Or your country is simply very vulnerable to climate change and that is a problem for your living standard and food supply. In other words this means that such people will require action on a number of issues and if US fall out of the loop ... that is mostly their problem. Since all of this in the end is "supply and demand" issue.


What overall is the real bottom line in this choice for me. Since this is the point where the post ww2 world order could just end.

Not a single UK constituency would vote for Donald Trump: Poll

And this is the country that believes capitalism.