How do I embrace my hedorism?

[Siúil a Rúin]

There are a number of emotional and psychological problems that can result from rejecting one's body and senses, rejecting pleasure and a sense of beauty. I don't know what it is actually like for someone to be a "hedonist", but I would suggest that the unexamined life is less fulfilling than one in which a person reflects on their values, beliefs, behaviors, relationships, etc. Balance in life tends to lead to the healthiest experience.

Simple, momentary pleasures in life are what often make the passage of time most meaningful for me. This could be taking time to drink a cup of hot chocolate on a wintery porch, watching a funny movie, snuggling with my love, baking cookies, ordering pizza, laying in the sunshine. When I allow myself to let go and fully experience these simple things, they take on a depth and meaning. I have made a choice in my life to experience everything more fully.

I think the danger in hedonism would include being reckless in sexual relationships and hurting people as a result, or being reckless by endangering oneself with substances or other risky behaviors. This is where the question of balance comes in because embracing the moment doesn't have to mean ignoring consequences.

Humans can be really abstract in ways that cause a great deal of pain. I think about psychological imbalances like anorexia and self-harm, and realize the importance of embracing some level of hedonism in order to recreate balance, in order for people to reconnect with their bodies in a healthy way. There are also deliberate strategies in dialectical behavior therapy that encourage people to list every positive sensation they enjoy for each of the senses, and then when they are having anxiety or depression they can create an environment that floods them with positive sensations to help overshadow the negative, abstract mental states. It is more effective for some people that others, but I can say that approach certainly helps me. There is research that shows that spending time in the beauty of nature heals the mind and body, and I see that as one element of hedonism, or at least an example of embracing concrete, sensory pleasure of living.

Does Nature Make Us Happy? | Psychology Today
Spending Time in Nature Makes People Feel More Alive, Study Shows : Rochester News
How Nature Can Make You Kinder, Happier, and More Creative | Greater Good

 

[Ogie]

There are a number of emotional and psychological problems that can result from rejecting one's body and senses, rejecting pleasure and a sense of beauty. I don't know what it is actually like for someone to be a "hedonist", but I would suggest that the unexamined life is less fulfilling than one in which a person reflects on their values, beliefs, behaviors, relationships, etc. Balance in life tends to lead to the healthiest experience.

Simple, momentary pleasures in life are what often make the passage of time most meaningful for me. This could be taking time to drink a cup of hot chocolate on a wintery porch, watching a funny movie, snuggling with my love, baking cookies, ordering pizza, laying in the sunshine. When I allow myself to let go and fully experience these simple things, they take on a depth and meaning. I have made a choice in my life to experience everything more fully.

I think the danger in hedonism would include being reckless in sexual relationships and hurting people as a result, or being reckless by endangering oneself with substances or other risky behaviors. This is where the question of balance comes in because embracing the moment doesn't have to mean ignoring consequences.

Humans can be really abstract in ways that cause a great deal of pain. I think about psychological imbalances like anorexia and self-harm, and realize the importance of embracing some level of hedonism in order to recreate balance, in order for people to reconnect with their bodies in a healthy way. There are also deliberate strategies in dialectical behavior therapy that encourage people to list every positive sensation they enjoy for each of the senses, and then when they are having anxiety or depression they can create an environment that floods them with positive sensations to help overshadow the negative, abstract mental states. It is more effective for some people that others, but I can say that approach certainly helps me. There is research that shows that spending time in the beauty of nature heals the mind and body, and I see that as one element of hedonism, or at least an example of embracing concrete, sensory pleasure of living.

Does Nature Make Us Happy? | Psychology Today
Spending Time in Nature Makes People Feel More Alive, Study Shows : Rochester News
How Nature Can Make You Kinder, Happier, and More Creative | Greater Good

I agree with you.

 

[Ogie]

If there's anything I said that upset someone and being defencive is one of my bad qualities. I am not perfect, so I acknowledge that it's a bad quality and not good to use in conversation. I might as well not say any more because it may be upsetting or annoying to somebody. My apologies to those I've annoyed or caused controversy.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

... because I'm representative of ALL americans?

If you run for president, and I campaign for you, then perhaps!

 

[Ogie]

:backout:

It's the best thing for me not to say more.

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

Like you embrace somebody naked laying on a bed ready to make love to you; That's how to take hedonism.

 

[uberrogo]

Be moderate ineverything, including moderation. Then you'll be fine.

 

[Coriolis]

There are a number of emotional and psychological problems that can result from rejecting one's body and senses, rejecting pleasure and a sense of beauty. I don't know what it is actually like for someone to be a "hedonist", but I would suggest that the unexamined life is less fulfilling than one in which a person reflects on their values, beliefs, behaviors, relationships, etc. Balance in life tends to lead to the healthiest experience.

We live in physical bodies, in a very physical world. For any who do believe in God, this is how God made us, and the world he put us in. It seems foolish to dismiss and ignore so significant a part of the creation. Better to enlist it in both bringing us pleasure but also bringing us into connection with God, each other, or whatever constitutes that "higher reality" for each of us. It is not a crutch but rather a tool. A human is a single integrated whole: physical, mental, spiritual, emotional.

I think the danger in hedonism would include being reckless in sexual relationships and hurting people as a result, or being reckless by endangering oneself with substances or other risky behaviors. This is where the question of balance comes in because embracing the moment doesn't have to mean ignoring consequences.

Yes. Pursuit of pleasure is bad mainly when it comes at the cost of pain, for oneself or for others.

There are also deliberate strategies in dialectical behavior therapy that encourage people to list every positive sensation they enjoy for each of the senses, and then when they are having anxiety or depression they can create an environment that floods them with positive sensations to help overshadow the negative, abstract mental states. It is more effective for some people that others, but I can say that approach certainly helps me. There is research that shows that spending time in the beauty of nature heals the mind and body, and I see that as one element of hedonism, or at least an example of embracing concrete, sensory pleasure of living.

Deliberately engaging the senses in a positive way can be effective in helping one be more present in the moment, as well as in getting distance from the cares of the day for the purposes of prayer, meditation, etc.

 

[wool]

We live in physical bodies, in a very physical world. For any who do believe in God, this is how God made us, and the world he put us in. It seems foolish to dismiss and ignore so significant a part of the creation. Better to enlist it in both bringing us pleasure but also bringing us into connection with God, each other, or whatever constitutes that "higher reality" for each of us. It is not a crutch but rather a tool. A human is a single integrated whole: physical, mental, spiritual, emotional.

But remember, when He created man, he wasn't the sinner he is now.

 

[chubber]

So how old is [MENTION=33055]Ogie[/MENTION], you're not 17 right?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

But remember, when He created man, he wasn't the sinner he is now.

Human are every bit as inclined to commit abstract sin/atrocity as they are to commit it concretely. The more abstract forms of sin are things like arrogance, cruel words, lies, etc, and we all know that these are committed very often and one could even argue that they are more readily embraced in the church setting. Who is worse? the elder of the church who has an attitude of complete arrogance and superiority towards everyone, who constantly says hurtful things, who has to control all of the decisions in the church and dominate everything creating constant strife... or is it the kid who got drunk last week? I'd say (and Jesus said it often to the Pharisees) that it is the elder who is the greater sinner.

My concern with the focus on these concrete, bodily sins as defining "sin" is that they are committed more as a result of personal vulnerability while the abstract sins are committed out of control and domination. It's easier to condemn vulnerability than perceived strength.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

^To clarify,
It is important to consider that the sins of pride, boasting, cruel words, deceit, envy, selfishness, greed, resentment, etc. are far more harmful even though they are more difficult to point at and condemn. These are the sins that are most clearly condemned by Jesus and throughout the gospels, and yet these kinds of sin pervade religious communities far more often than the simpler "sins of the flesh".

"Sins of the flesh" (hedonism) that involve indulgence are often the result of a lack of self control, they demonstrate personal weakness and are easier to point at and condemn, but it is rather clear in the gospels that Jesus came down a lot harder on those less tangible sins that define a person's character.

It is possible to have a moment of personal weakness and indulge a hedonistic desire, but to still be fundamentally compassionate at the core. It may actually be impossible to be arrogant and selfish and to be fundamentally compassionate at the core. That is why those sins are far more harmful and worth addressing first and condemning.

 

[wool]

^To clarify,
It is important to consider that the sins of pride, boasting, cruel words, deceit, envy, selfishness, greed, resentment, etc. are far more harmful even though they are more difficult to point at and condemn. These are the sins that are most clearly condemned by Jesus and throughout the gospels, and yet these kinds of sin pervade religious communities far more often than the simpler "sins of the flesh".

"Sins of the flesh" (hedonism) that involve indulgence are often the result of a lack of self control, they demonstrate personal weakness and are easier to point at and condemn, but it is rather clear in the gospels that Jesus came down a lot harder on those less tangible sins that define a person's character.

It is possible to have a moment of personal weakness and indulge a hedonistic desire, but to still be fundamentally compassionate at the core. It may actually be impossible to be arrogant and selfish and to be fundamentally compassionate at the core. That is why those sins are far more harmful and worth addressing first and condemning.

Coriolis was trying to justify sins of the flesh by saying that God made us with physical bodies. I said, that when He made us, we were made in God's image. We were not yet fallen, not prone to sin by our nature.

So what exactly does this have to do with my post?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Coriolis was trying to justify sins of the flesh by saying that God made us with physical bodies. I said, that when He made us, we were made in God's image. We were not yet fallen, not prone to sin by our nature.

So what exactly does this have to do with my post?

This is Coriolis' quote

Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
We live in physical bodies, in a very physical world. For any who do believe in God, this is how God made us, and the world he put us in. It seems foolish to dismiss and ignore so significant a part of the creation. Better to enlist it in both bringing us pleasure but also bringing us into connection with God, each other, or whatever constitutes that "higher reality" for each of us. It is not a crutch but rather a tool. A human is a single integrated whole: physical, mental, spiritual, emotional.

There isn't anything in that post that justifies "sins of the flesh". It is acknowledging that we are created as physical beings and so our physical experiences are part of who we are. This doesn't justify behavior like committing adultery, but it would refer to embracing ourselves as sexual beings in whatever context is moral and kind. It doesn't mean eating so much we vomit and/or become obese, but it does mean enjoying the experience of eating food. Our physical experiences can be part of religious experience. They certainly are for me when I am alone in nature.

There is a way that religion can reject the body and its desires as inherently evil. This has a long history in Christendom (and other religions). It is important to not confuse this idea of carnal nature and sin with the healthy ways of embracing our physical selves.

The point of my post is to show that when we get fixated on rejecting the "sins of the flesh", we can end up rejecting the healthy aspects of our physical selves as well. We can also end up overlooking the much worse sins that are less tangible. Rejecting our physical natures because sometimes they involve indulgences that cause harm would be like rejecting the right to think any thoughts because it is so easy to think something 'sinful' or wrong. It's throwing the proverbial 'baby out with the bath water'.

 

[wool]

Rejecting our physical natures because sometimes they involve indulgences that cause harm would be like rejecting the right to think any thoughts because it is so easy to think something 'sinful' or wrong. It's throwing the proverbial 'baby out with the bath water'.

That sounds like justification to me, but fine. The closer we get to God, the purer our thoughts become, the less we crave sensual pleasure, the emptier we become of self.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

That sounds like justification to me, but fine. The closer we get to God, the purer our thoughts become, the less we crave sensual pleasure, the emptier we become of self.

I definitely agree that it can be a justification. Embracing a happy, positive feeling in our bodies is only spiritual and good if the thinking and motives behind it are good. I do want to add that it is a huge problem when people skip over the healthy aspects of it and go right to causing harm. This can be especially easy to see in terms of sexuality. If someone causes anyone harm through rape or molestation, then I think they are the worst horrible sinner and more evil than anyone. That is worse than arrogance alone, but I don't think it can happen without a lot of horrible sinful attitudes on the inside to start with that are harder to see.

What I value is spending time sitting in the sunshine by a lake and noticing everything beautiful around me. Also helping other people by working in a soup kitchen, giving food and blankets to the poor and other concrete helps are a spiritual way of valuing the physical well being, health, and positive feelings that we have a right to as humans.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

There's so many replies that I can't even react to all of them. There's people who are against hedonism, which you have every right to be against it because it's what you believe, and I respect that. I thank everyone for their input, whether I agree or not, because you guys didn't have to click on my topic and type down your thoughts.

I've had my fair share of pain in life like everyone else and I really am not a bad person, but a person who wants to find a possible solution to avoid the pain or the very least make it easier on myself. I made my mistakes like everyone else, we're only human after all, and I don't live without pain. That's not true. I can't stand the pain that I've been put through, that's all, and I want to minimize that amount as much as necessary as long as it doesn't harm another person in the process.

I just wanted to make that clear. I'm not a bad person.

1) Are you sure you are not an Enneagram 7??

Your opening is vague. Avoiding pain is a different thing altogether than hedonism. Hedonism is self-indulgence by definition. It's pleasure above all else. By nature, it is singular in concentration. It doesn't do "balance" as balancing aspects of pleasure is not hedonism.

3) What kind of pain are you afraid of and seek to minimize?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

1 Timothy 5:6
She who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Tao Te Ching chapter 1

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

 

[Ogie]

So how old is [MENTION=33055]Ogie[/MENTION], you're not 17 right?

To answer your question, no, I'm not seventeen. I'm in my early twenties.

 

[wool]

Tao Te Ching chapter 1

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Not all desire is bad.