How do I embrace my hedorism?

[wool]

The religious are always quick to play the victim card despite being the ones in power. Also, you are hurting somebody attempting to limit their free will and have them miss out on what they want in life. Its fine to give somebody advice, but weaponizing quotes from religious texts is the first step to crusading against somebody.

There is nothing harmful about what I posted. However, encouraging hedonistic behavior, or failing to warn against it, is.

How am I attempting to limit their free will, by giving them advice, someone who is clearly at risk of becoming a servant of pleasure and self indulgence?

You are as much a crusader as you claim me to be, perhaps more so.

 

[miss fortune]

I'm going to agree that if it feels good and it's not hurting anyone, go for it

generally my philosophy on life, anyway

 

[Mole]

Pleasure shared is pleasure doubled. And pleasure shared gives meaning to pleasure. We are made to share pleasure, our very brain is wired with mirror neurons, I mirror your pleasure and you mirror mine. Our very sense of self is found in our mother and her faithful mirroring of us.

And naturally we are fond of imagining that God mirrors us also, just like our faithful mother.

We dance for joy, we dance for pleasure, and what is more pleasurable than dancing with our partner, than their dancing with us.

Interesting perhaps is that we can imagine dancing with any partner, we can imagine dancing with trees, we can imagine dancing on the bonnets of cars, we can imagine dancing with strangers in the streets.

But who is it we are dancing with who is hidden even from our imagining?

 

[Wunjo]

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
— Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law, I:40

 

[Mole]

There is nothing harmful about what I posted. However, encouraging hedonistic behavior, or failing to warn against it, is.

How am I attempting to limit their free will, by giving them advice, someone who is clearly at risk of becoming a servant of pleasure and self indulgence?

An effective way of avoiding becoming a servant of pleasure and self indulgence is to share pleasure. It serves to nurture pleasure, it serves to nurture relationships, and it provides a natural form of discipline.

A good way to start sharing pleasure is to start sharing meals. The sharing of meals increases the pleasure of eating, it is an excellent part of Western civilization where we learn to converse as we eat. The sharing of meals brings the generations together. The sharing meals helps avoid eating disorders. The sharing of meals helps avoid mental disorders. And the sharing of meals takes us away from our computer screens. So start off with one shared meal a week and see how it goes.

And the sharing of meals leads naturally to the sharing of feelings including sexual feelings. And how important it is to share our sexual feelings as they can so easily become selfish. A good place to start sharing our sexual feelings is with Tantric Sexuality.

Bon appétit.

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

Hedonism is what happens when you have no self control, much like a dog'll eat if you placed edible food in front of it, perhaps -
On the other hand, I likened myself to a cockroach when asked (about love and if I was a typical Scorpio) and still fornicated... So... Whatever, be you, be true.

 

[kyuuei]

I have a very hedonistic friend. Despite his very clear stance on it and embracing of it, he still doesn't avoid all pain and has found pleasure in it. He joined the service because of the opportunities it afforded him, and has stuck with it despite all the downsides of it because there are still far more opportunities with the military than outside of it.

It's all about balance. I'm sure enough people here have mentioned that. The Story of Dorian Gray is an extreme.. what happens when people go balls to the walls in hedonism and avoid all pain. It's a fun tale.. but most people don't really live that way, and I suspect you won't/don't either.

As far as how to embrace it.. I'd start by finding out what gives you pleasure in life sustainably, and how to work towards those goals. It's simple in concept, difficult in execution. "What makes me happy? What gives me pleasure? What fulfills me?"

If what really makes you happy is having lots of free time, maybe the pain of training for a skill that gives you lots of free time is what you need to get there. If you like being with multiple partners, maybe you ought to seek out people who are the same way and converse with them vs trying to date someone hoping they're on the same wave length on this subject later.

Make a list of all the things important to you... 6 months later. Re-write that list. And don't use the previous one as a guide. Compare the two. See what's consistent and the same. Those ones are probably the ones you want to aim for first.

Also, a list of things you HATE and that drive you insane is good. Finding solutions to those can help increase the quality of life immensely. If you hate monthly bills, changing to a frugal lifestyle may be very freeing for you and the added effort can mean a much more comfortable lifestyle. If you cannot stand vapid people's stupid FB posts, maybe taking the time to fine-tune your facebook feed could give you a more pleasant social media experience.

To use an example of my own.. I changed careers to being a nurse because part-time work as a nurse is 2 days a week. That's 10 days off every 2 weeks. That's a decent amount of time for the pay. Yeah, I had to learn my trade, and it sucked (10-12 hour days 5-7 days a week for 1 1/2 years + 1 year of basically apprenticeship), and I'm still learning new things everyday. But still, the pain of that trade is worth the opportunities and life skills it afforded me as well. I did it in such a way so that when I was done with school I was *done*. I went a step above knowing the industry was pushing for that step soon, now I look super gun-ho but really I am just a lazy bird and saw a good opportunity. Bonus, I'm better able to navigate things that made me so upset once (like being misdiagnosed by doctors, and shuffled around the VA health system) and thus painful things in my life are diminished as well. I can better take care of myself and others, I have helped other people, and have a good career that I can take with me anywhere and everywhere.

 

[Ogie]

I have a very hedonistic friend. Despite his very clear stance on it and embracing of it, he still doesn't avoid all pain and has found pleasure in it. He joined the service because of the opportunities it afforded him, and has stuck with it despite all the downsides of it because there are still far more opportunities with the military than outside of it.

It's all about balance. I'm sure enough people here have mentioned that. The Story of Dorian Gray is an extreme.. what happens when people go balls to the walls in hedonism and avoid all pain. It's a fun tale.. but most people don't really live that way, and I suspect you won't/don't either.

As far as how to embrace it.. I'd start by finding out what gives you pleasure in life sustainably, and how to work towards those goals. It's simple in concept, difficult in execution. "What makes me happy? What gives me pleasure? What fulfills me?"

If what really makes you happy is having lots of free time, maybe the pain of training for a skill that gives you lots of free time is what you need to get there. If you like being with multiple partners, maybe you ought to seek out people who are the same way and converse with them vs trying to date someone hoping they're on the same wave length on this subject later.

Make a list of all the things important to you... 6 months later. Re-write that list. And don't use the previous one as a guide. Compare the two. See what's consistent and the same. Those ones are probably the ones you want to aim for first.

Also, a list of things you HATE and that drive you insane is good. Finding solutions to those can help increase the quality of life immensely. If you hate monthly bills, changing to a frugal lifestyle may be very freeing for you and the added effort can mean a much more comfortable lifestyle. If you cannot stand vapid people's stupid FB posts, maybe taking the time to fine-tune your facebook feed could give you a more pleasant social media experience.

To use an example of my own.. I changed careers to being a nurse because part-time work as a nurse is 2 days a week. That's 10 days off every 2 weeks. That's a decent amount of time for the pay. Yeah, I had to learn my trade, and it sucked (10-12 hour days 5-7 days a week for 1 1/2 years + 1 year of basically apprenticeship), and I'm still learning new things everyday. But still, the pain of that trade is worth the opportunities and life skills it afforded me as well. I did it in such a way so that when I was done with school I was *done*. I went a step above knowing the industry was pushing for that step soon, now I look super gun-ho but really I am just a lazy bird and saw a good opportunity. Bonus, I'm better able to navigate things that made me so upset once (like being misdiagnosed by doctors, and shuffled around the VA health system) and thus painful things in my life are diminished as well. I can better take care of myself and others, I have helped other people, and have a good career that I can take with me anywhere and everywhere.

You've definitely helped me out. Thank you.

 

[Ogie]

There's so many replies that I can't even react to all of them. There's people who are against hedonism, which you have every right to be against it because it's what you believe, and I respect that. I thank everyone for their input, whether I agree or not, because you guys didn't have to click on my topic and type down your thoughts.

I've had my fair share of pain in life like everyone else and I really am not a bad person, but a person who wants to find a possible solution to avoid the pain or the very least make it easier on myself. I made my mistakes like everyone else, we're only human after all, and I don't live without pain. That's not true. I can't stand the pain that I've been put through, that's all, and I want to minimize that amount as much as necessary as long as it doesn't harm another person in the process.

I just wanted to make that clear. I'm not a bad person.

 

[Ogie]

I'm going to agree that if it feels good and it's not hurting anyone, go for it

generally my philosophy on life, anyway

I view life as an opportunity for a time while we're alive to do what we should to feel happy as long as it's not harmful or dangerous to others or ourselves. I agree with that philosophy. We're only young once at one point, in my case, and I want to make the best of it while I still can.

 

[Ogie]

I think you might have somewhat missed the point of Dorian Gray....though to be fair, I've really only seen the movie.

Sometimes, pain and temperance are necessary to maximize long-term happiness, while pure hedonism has what might best be described as diminishing marginal emotional returns, and eventually even reduced pleasure (imagine eating your favorite meal three times a day for 20 years....you will eventually receive no pleasure from it). You can postpone that effect by diversifying your pleasurable experiences, but you will eventually run out and be stuck in a rut. That's just the way human psychology evolved as a survival mechanism.

That's no reason not to enjoy indulging oneself, but the trick is to recognize when and at what extent it will contribute to a net utilitarian loss (on that subject, you might want to research Utilitarianism as a philosophy, it seems right up your alley).

But so long as no one else is hurt, do what thou wilt, I would oppose anyone stopping you.

I see your point. It's not that I take the book/movie literally word for word as if it's the point of how all life should be spent, but I admire the way it was told. I didn't really miss the point, but I just discovered myself for the person I am from reading it. That's what I meant.

I recently did a painful thing by choice and it had a positive outcome, so I do agree with you on that part, and I've found several pleasures in life that I adore, but I often do different things now that it doesn't grow old as far as interest goes. What you're saying is helpful. Thanks a lot!

 

[Mole]

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
— Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law, I:40

This is the law of psychopaths.

 

[Mole]

I'm going to agree that if it feels good and it's not hurting anyone, go for it

generally my philosophy on life, anyway

This is the philosophy of loneliness, this is the philosophy of narcissism, this is the philosophy of the lone, independent American, and they say an American is never more American than when they are alone.

America was founded by those who believed in personal salvation, they did not believe in the salvation of the community. This has been iterated over the centuries and now we see its full flower in narcissism.

And the Americans want us to be like them. And God bless them, they even fantasise that we want to be like them, and they even believe we are like them, at least a second rate version.

 

[miss fortune]

... because I'm representative of ALL americans?

 

[Coriolis]

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
— Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law, I:40

I prefer the traditional rede: "An it harm none, do as ye will".

Of course it is impossible to harm none, but keeping that ideal in mind as something to aim for goes far in motivating a thorough consideration of one's actions to minimize harm done and maximize good.

 

[Mole]

... because I'm representative of ALL americans?

You see, you can't stop thinking of yourself as a brave, lone, individual. You are constitutionally unable to think of yourself as a member of a community.

For 200,000 years we have lived in traditional tribes with a spoken culture, but only in the last 100 years or so in prosperous countries we have lived in literate cultures of individuals.

And sneaking up on the literate individuals is electronic culture, quite like spoken culture, forming electronic tribes in the global village. We have gone from spoken culture, to literate culture, on to electronic culture.

Where are you in this historical drama?

 

[Agent Washington]

There's so many replies that I can't even react to all of them. There's people who are against hedonism, which you have every right to be against it because it's what you believe, and I respect that. I thank everyone for their input, whether I agree or not, because you guys didn't have to click on my topic and type down your thoughts.

I've had my fair share of pain in life like everyone else and I really am not a bad person, but a person who wants to find a possible solution to avoid the pain or the very least make it easier on myself. I made my mistakes like everyone else, we're only human after all, and I don't live without pain. That's not true. I can't stand the pain that I've been put through, that's all, and I want to minimize that amount as much as necessary as long as it doesn't harm another person in the process.

I just wanted to make that clear. I'm not a bad person.

*slides up* That's literally the most E7 thing I"ve ever heard Sure it's not in one of your fixes?

Anyway, I've found it pointless to speculate on it, but I think the flip side of the coin that nobody ever asks is the damage that repression does to the psyche and how it interacts with indulgence in pleasure.

Hence the turn to hedonism; it's the undisciplined, belly side of society, and that's why institutions fear it and individuals seek to regulate it, when in fact it is just another facet of life. I think it says a lot about puritanical people who think that the world is a dark place that only their joyless sense of morality can control, discipline and shape.

I haven't actually read Dorian Grey in full, but I did read all of Wilde's letters with Bosie. Exquisite words.

 

[Obfuscate]

1 Timothy 5:6 She who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

hmmm if i was looking for a biblical quote concerning this, my first thought would have been ecclesiastes (but to each their own)... pleasure is a meaningless pursuit, but that can be said of nearly any pursuit in this life, no? i believe you mean well wool... take a moment to reflect on 2nd timothy 2:22-26... i am not trying to say i know more than you or to say i know better than you... if you like read john 4 also... how do you think that conversation would have been different if jesus had begun it by quoting leviticus? the bible is a great mirror for finding our own faults, but thrusting it in the face of nonbelievers indiscriminately won't help you "catch fish"... reflect on your goal in doing this; if it's to save someone i think it is time to change tactics...

post script:

i hope this doesn't come across as judgemental of you... i am of the opinion that nonbelievers should find pleasure in this life (they only have one)... when a christian is able to improve the life of another by sharing their faith, it is their duty... when they are unable (due to any number of factors: internal or external) the least one can do is reflect Christ's love and patience... i wouldn't claim to be any kind of example, but i do try hard to be kind (and i don't mean to say you are unkind)... anyhow, if none of this is helpful i apologize...

 

[Ogie]

*slides up* That's literally the most E7 thing I"ve ever heard Sure it's not in one of your fixes?

Anyway, I've found it pointless to speculate on it, but I think the flip side of the coin that nobody ever asks is the damage that repression does to the psyche and how it interacts with indulgence in pleasure.

Hence the turn to hedonism; it's the undisciplined, belly side of society, and that's why institutions fear it and individuals seek to regulate it, when in fact it is just another facet of life. I think it says a lot about puritanical people who think that the world is a dark place that only their joyless sense of morality can control, discipline and shape.

I haven't actually read Dorian Grey in full, but I did read all of Wilde's letters with Bosie. Exquisite words.

How do I word this to be respectful and defend my side of the post? I see what you're saying and I really meant that I don't judge as I implied, because everyone's a different person. Wilde is an amazing writer, his quotes are unforgettable, and Dorian Gray is an example of excellent work.

I didn't even know my own philosophy until I read it and I'd done hedonistic things (without harming or influencing people) without even realising it. What you said, one of my fixes? No, it's not, and I don't believe I have a "fix." Honestly, I wasn't lying. I hope this doesn't come across as a bad reply, then if it is, I apologise for that.

 

[Agent Washington]

How do I word this to be respectful and defend my side of the post? I see what you're saying and I really meant that I don't judge as I implied, because everyone's a different person. Wilde is an amazing writer, his quotes are unforgettable, and Dorian Gray is an example of excellent work.

I didn't even know my own philosophy until I read it and I'd done hedonistic things (without harming or influencing people) without even realising it. What you said, one of my fixes? No, it's not, and I don't believe I have a "fix." Honestly, I wasn't lying. I hope this doesn't come across as a bad reply, then if it is, I apologise for that.

Fixes as in, not addiction - and seriously your defensiveness is rubbing me off the wrong way - but enneagram fixes. Tritype - Wikipedia

I don't know what else to say to you anymore, so I'm leaving. There can be no respect on your end, because of how you've read it. Bye.