Alright Starry starts another thread.
Another masterpiece is born.
Alright Starry starts another thread.
maybe you should get together a team and re write the ESFJ descriptions, if i had more confidence in my knowledge i'd offer. I can send pictures of kittens for motivation though
She is more subdued and her full energy and personality only come out in the company of friends and relatives. Why? Because she's spent her whole life receiving strange looks and "whaaaa?" responses to what is her normal and preferred mode of thought. She wasn't always so subdued and introverted, but she's been conditioned to keep a lid on her dominant Ne.
Bottom line: You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ without expecting to do major psychological damage to the person right? I mean, I'm surprised this isn't an infactable offense.
At any given time, however, there are just as many (if not more) ESFJ 2s mistyped as ENFPs floatin around as there are actual ENFPs. It has always been this way and frankly it has never bothered me (or any of the other NFPs)... until I started to take notice of just how *helpful* the ESFJ 2 truly is.
In other words, these folks are generally the first to "reach out" to others in an effort to help posters with the ENFPs in their lives. They reach out to ENFPs seeking advice as well...but there appears to be a greater likelihood that these mistypes reach out to other types in an effort to answer their ENFP questions and provide advice. And they can seemingly cover a hell of a lot more ground (with what is quite often unhelpful advice) than actual ENFPs. And they do it with rainbows.
You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ... but you sure the fuck don't tell them if they're simultaneously e2 and mistyped as ENFP because this is what the ENFP is now. These mistypes have earned the name "The People's ENFP".
I want to understand why this happens. These folks absolutely believe they are ENFPs...and so does everyone else. I have seen it where these guys are actually producing test results of ESFJ...and people will still work to convince them they are ENFP. The NFPs can see it...but no one else appears to. Why?
What are you saying ? Every ENFP that is very socially open and cares about people is mistyped ESFJ ? Are you sure that you are not simply more of a heartless/I don't care type of ENFP and therefore you can't relate to social pool of your type completely ?
hmmm... do you think this would be more common for 2w3 over 2w1? I could see the w3 try to be "chameleon-like" to project a image to be seen as "loveable and accepted" (base desire of e2 is to be loved/get the love that they feel they are not receiving while the base desire of e3 is to feel "valuable and worthy"). I know many more 2w1 ESFJs than 2w3 ESFJs so that's what my perspective was based on.Just noticed [MENTION=13646]Haven[/MENTION] liked the OP which kinda makes my evening. I miss your presence mister.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I really enjoyed this thread as I can't help but feel like it was written especially for me
I think tradition is really important, but it comes secondary to human needs and how we relate to each other. If a tradition is found to be harmful or evil it should be abandoned immediately. There's a really good Star Trek episode about that actually (Half a life). Oh, also Snowpiercer illustrates this idea as well.
To me, nothing is more personally rewarding than social acceptance, and nothing is more short-lived. All needs come second to it. When I compromise too much to gain it, I feel inner tension. If I was to start going to church I'd have to reconcile my own atheism with the "high" of being part of something. If I can't, it's over.
I'm still working on a more permanent fix for social need, because without it I get so melancholy and I start listening to The Cure and Joy Division. I think the permanence is where Si comes in to save the day, because communities are built on enduring values, and without them we all fly off in different directions in search of something else.
hmmm... do you think this would be more common for 2w3 over 2w1? I could see the w3 try to be "chameleon-like" to project a image to be seen as "loveable and accepted" (base desire of e2 is to be loved/get the love that they feel they are not receiving while the base desire of e3 is to feel "valuable and worthy"). I know many more 2w1 ESFJs than 2w3 ESFJs so that's what my perspective was based on.
I like this thread because it sucks to be misunderstood.
Ahhh... awesome.... that makes a lot more sense... I am not that versed in 2w3s... I seem to gravitate a lot more towards 3w2s and am personally a 3w4.The ESFJs that...idk either self-type as ENFPs or as I've witnessed many times over...arrive here undecided and are convinced by other members that they are ENFPs...have all been 2w3 (although I should say that I came to see that from discussions with other NFPs. I have incorrectly thought some were 6w7 and 3w2...but am in agreement now that as it pertains to an ENFP mistype...2w3 is the culprit.)
I definately think ENFP's really shift a lot on perspective with maturity, this dosn't necessarily go along with chronological age... more experience as ENFP's tend to store all their data under experience and use it as and when. If Fi can be the subtype as per prior suggestion/theory then you'd def be that sub type.
I probably came off a lot more ESFx when younger. When in company I can be upbeat and more bouncy and excitable but it's harder to be like that alone or when nothing new/exciting is being discussed/introduced (include people in that ). But yeah I think my Te does translate more heavily, it add's to a slightly more brash delivery, which can come across a little too bluntly in text sometimes.
This thread is interesting to me because it wouldn't surprise me to find many people claiming to be one type over another to receive the sort of attention they desire. It isn't genuine, but really unless you see someone in person and interact with others, how can we truly tell what type someone is, versus what they are playing up online with whatever persona they conjured up?
...Umm, sorry, somehow I STILL managed to go off on some thought provoked by the line that I BOLDED (nice one, Dreamer), but yes, I agree, and have been finding that to be very true of myself. For example, I don't feel I resonate all the time with every other ENFP on this forum. Yes, I have lofty visions, and all that other ENFP jazz, but I feel with added maturity and experience, I see these goals in a much more realistic sense these days. I used to be far more bright-eyed and optimistic. It's still all there, but it's also obvious to me that Te and Si are working much more in sync with my other functions as well. I don't see myself as fully developed, and doubt I will ever stop growing and maturing, but at 29, I don't doubt that a high school or college-level ENFP would at least look a bit different than me, or one in their 30s and beyond.
So to play devil's advocate here, are the ESFJs, the "People's ENFP", actually ESFJ's? Or are they mature ENFPs? Are we also just quick to apply online labels and stereotypes to people? Not to discredit your observations and judgement [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], just some passing thoughts of mine
Interesting thread indeed!
BTW, it just occurred to me that my initial tangent spawned from [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] and the comments he was making earlier about type bias. Was gonna erase it, but eh, I wanted to say it. Ugh! OK Dreamer, end this post, NOW!
More like saying that poor ESFJ descriptions suck so much that not even ESFJs want to be ESFJs so they cling to ENFP instead.
I'd hazard a guess that it would be the other way round.Younger ENFP's would come across as far more bouncy flakey and probably moody.
Actually I thought I was equally a 7 and a 2 when I first took enneagram tests. I have since realised that actually i'm not even close to being a 2. I'm not entirely sure of being a 7w6 I could even be a 6W7 or 7W8... idk I'm not entirely convinced of enneagram especially in a static form since in theory enna type is transient.
I think that [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] has a point, lots of people have joined the forum asking what type they are and people who like them have typed fun loving extroverts into enfp's... I have no idea why... I think it's a type bias... but honestly out of those... i'd wager not a lot are and if it were not for the type bias those people would be equally happy being other types.
Socionics does not have ushc a heavy bias and the upshot of this is that there are a whole lot more people self typing as sensors in general. Check out the socionics groups for confirmation of this. I mean I get the thing with always feeling the cold shoulder in a sensor world... the real world... the one -out there.... *shudder* So i understand that this place can feel a safe haven to those who have had difficulties in cold harsh reality. But I also feel that those people don't deserve hatred or anger, and that to build bridges gaps need to be narrowed... it will be hard to do that if we only accept N's. And type everyone N friendly as N's.
/long ramble
This absolutely needs to be done.
And kittens.
This thread is interesting to me because it wouldn't surprise me to find many people claiming to be one type over another to receive the sort of attention they desire. It isn't genuine, but really unless you see someone in person and interact with others, how can we truly tell what type someone is, versus what they are playing up online with whatever persona they conjured up?
So to play devil's advocate here, are the ESFJs, the "People's ENFP", actually ESFJ's? Or are they mature ENFPs? Are we also just quick to apply online labels and stereotypes to people? Not to discredit your observations and judgement [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], just some passing thoughts of mine