[Fe] ESFJ e2 "The People's ENFP"

[cascadeco]

What does Ne looks like in your opinion vs what ESFJs thinking they're Ne looks like. Examples please but all hypothetical ones. i want to see a comparison

p,s, sorry for getting all teachery

I'm not very good with specific examples, but the esfj I know just seems to like to appear to be silly or strange, making pun comments or random asides or connections, getting a laughing response or 'oh esfj, let me pat your head' type of reaction. Sorry, I don't know how to answer your question. I'll respond again if I think of something.

 

[prplchknz]

I'm not very good with specific examples, but the esfj I know just seems to like to appear to be silly or strange, making pun comments or random asides or connections, getting a laughing response or 'oh esfj, let me pat your head' type of reaction. Sorry, I don't know how to answer your question. I'll respond again if I think of something.

that's fine i've always wonder if i'm an si aux instead of ne aux. like what people are saying are random ne is not i don't think i'm ESFJ 2 though but i could be.

 

[EcK]

Ok sounds good. How much time do you need to retrofit all ENFPs into ESFJ ?

 

[HongDou]

that's fine i've always wonder if i'm an si aux instead of ne aux. like what people are saying are random ne is not i don't think i'm ESFJ 2 though but i could be.

The thing is ESFJs are Fe - in the end they're aware of how what they're saying/doing influences the feelings of others. They know they're being fun and entertaining, whereas I think you for the most part engage people completely seriously. You're just talking about how you process things. To me you don't come across as random (although I understand how other members could see you as that) but more unfiltered in saying what's on your mind.

 

[prplchknz]

The thing is ESFJs are Fe - in the end they're aware of how what they're saying/doing influences the feelings of others. They know they're being fun and entertaining, whereas I think you for the most part engage people completely seriously. You're just talking about how you process things. To me you don't come across as random (although I understand how other members could see you as that) but more unfiltered in saying what's on your mind.

I mean can be random and make myself but you're right more often then not. unless i'm in a silly mood it's not that random and is often serious, take my lesbian question in the sex forum that was completely serious and not at all random.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm going to quote what Anaximander here because I think what you're talking about here is actually is an ESFJ quality being misattributed to ENFP. Believe it or not, one of the qualities we've honed in on as a "people's ENFP" quality is the idea of being zany all the time. And the reason is it can be a quality for the ESFJ 2 over ENFP is just like you said - it's part of the charm.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I think if you give an ESFJ 2, who is for the most part looking for positive interactions and experiences affirming their lovability, the tool of Ne and place them in a society that values weirdness and quirkiness they'll engage that side of themselves more because it provides them with more of what they need. The difference is just that too...it's a side of themselves. It's playtime fuel rather than a life force. The reason ESFJs can play up the "zany all the time" quality is because it's less harmful to them to have it criticized. An ESFJ could walk around a room all the time making comical noises or funny comments and not mind some responses poking fun at them because in the end they know they're valued and loved and what's being threatened is not a completely innate part of themselves, while for an ENFP the 6th or 7th look of "haha what the hell are you talk about" will start to get tiring because it's your life force being scrutinized.

Well said.

Honestly, I'm a little bit surprised that this is such a common mistype, but I grew up with an ENFP older sister and an ESFJ father (unclear on their enneatypes, but I think he has 2 in his tritype, whereas she may be a 4, 6 or 7) so the differences couldn't be more apparent.

He is far more likely to act "zany" and silly a great deal of the time, but it's more of a conscious effort to be that way; when she comes off that way, she's literally acting in her most natural state--it's not a front or a conscious effort to act any given way. She can come across a bit flaky and appear to jump from context to context, although I don't see it that way because we think alike in many ways. When he does it, he's very much aware and attuned to how his behavior is affecting and altering the general mood in any given group or social setting--his Ne is still acting in service to his Fe.

She is more subdued and her full energy and personality only come out in the company of friends and relatives. Why? Because she's spent her whole life receiving strange looks and "whaaaa?" responses to what is her normal and preferred mode of thought. She wasn't always so subdued and introverted, but she's been conditioned to keep a lid on her dominant Ne.

 

[Tilt]

I'm going to quote what Anaximander here because I think what you're talking about here is actually is an ESFJ quality being misattributed to ENFP. Believe it or not, one of the qualities we've honed in on as a "people's ENFP" quality is the idea of being zany all the time. And the reason is it can be a quality for the ESFJ 2 over ENFP is just like you said - it's part of the charm.

ok. Got it. I probably didn't pick the best phrasing. This is just from my own experiences with ESFJ 2s and ENFPs, from an ENFJ perspective.

The ENFPs females I had in my mind are probably 7w8 and 6w7 (or 7w6) no way to be mistaken for a core 2 type... They probably see core 2 Fe doms to be quite smothering and domineering... Maybe "zany all the time" was the wrong way to put it but Ne just shows front and center with a very strong individualistic drive (Fi). To my Fe, they seem relatively unconventional and somewhat random in their individuality (aka "zany") . When I was younger, the Ne dom-ness would overwhelm and frustrate my Je (Fe) while Fe doms just make the most natural sense to me.

 

[Starry]

Yes, I agree, it should make them easy to tell apart--I think that is what [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] was touching on when she said that a lot of what people attribute to being ENFP qualities are actually the qualities of ESFJs who are mistyped as ENFP, which is what makes it difficult to tell apart.

That makes a lot of sense. I am just curious as to what are the characteristics that pseudo-ENFPs attribute to ENFPs that aren't really ENFP-ish? [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]
This is all quite interesting to me....I love learning about the nuances of people!

Yeah, I think it has less to do with ESFJ's on the forum or elsewhere being clueless about themselves and how they operate, and thus mistyping, and more to do with info on the internet or in forums that make everyone else associate certain things with enfp that may have little to do with enfp alone. So it's as you said somewhere else, everyone else doing the typing incorrectly.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the responses in this thread...especially ^these as they are directly touching on what I have been trying to wrap my brain around.

You will have to forgive me as well. I never expected this thread to receive a single response and so I didn't put thought into my availability to reply nor did I insert the entirety of my concerns in this regard into the OP. I will do what I can to come back and will do what I can to fill in the holes that I thought would go unnoticed.

Each type has a set of "common misytpes" to accompany it...and theory has long since established that for the ENFP it's the ESFJ <-this is nothing to write home about. And no [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] ...while I am one of the few you will encounter on this site that believes feel or vibe is an important, invaluable tool when it comes to the typing of others... Typing by *feel* is a one-way ticket to Mistypeland...in every case but especially as it pertains to these notorious "common mistypes". You take a 'Get Things Going' ESFJ + the positive outlook of e2 = someone that feels more ENFP than an ENFP (I've actually been wanting to understand why this specific combination produces the 'Pe feel' actually. Like the member [MENTION=4398]Giggly[/MENTION] ISFJ e2...people were constantly trying to convince her she was ESFP in spite of her own protests and test results that generally said otherwise.)

The SFJ descriptions have pissed me off since the get-go...long before I started to wonder how those descriptions were altering the perception of my own type. I'll have to come back...

 

[prplchknz]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the responses in this thread...especially ^these as they are directly touching on what I have been trying to wrap my brain around.

You will have to forgive me as well. I never expected this thread to receive a single response and so I didn't put thought into my availability to reply nor did I insert the entirety of my concerns in this regard into the OP. I will do what I can to come back and will do what I can to fill in the holes that I thought would go unnoticed.

Each type has a set of "common misytpes" to accompany it...and theory has long since established that for the ENFP it's the ESFJ <-this is nothing to write home about. And no [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] ...while I am one of the few you will encounter on this site that believes feel or vibe is an important, invaluable tool when it comes to the typing of others... Typing by *feel* is a one-way ticket to Mistypeland...in every case but especially as it pertains to these notorious "common mistypes". You take a 'Get Things Going' ESFJ + the positive outlook of e2 = someone that feels more ENFP than an ENFP (I've actually been wanting to understand why this specific combination produces the 'Pe feel' actually. Like the member [MENTION=4398]Giggly[/MENTION] ISFJ e2...people were constantly trying to convince her she was ESFP in spite of her own protests and test results that generally said otherwise.)

The SFJ descriptions have pissed me off since the get-go...long before I started to wonder how those descriptions were altering the perception of my own type. I'll have to come back...

you don't seem to me like someone who has to help people for their worth, which is from my understanding what the ESFJ 2s that look like ENFP 4s do on this site. i have nothing against either type i don't i really really really really really don't but you have a different feel. maybe you try to help but doesn't seem as forced to me, like you don't go around trying to convince everyone what NeFi looks like and if someone who has Fi isn't going uh i don't relate to this at all maybe i'm not Fi.

 

[Tilt]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the responses in this thread...especially ^these as they are directly touching on what I have been trying to wrap my brain around.

You will have to forgive me as well. I never expected this thread to receive a single response and so I didn't put thought into my availability to reply nor did I insert the entirety of my concerns in this regard into the OP. I will do what I can to come back and will do what I can to fill in the holes that I thought would go unnoticed.

Each type has a set of "common misytpes" to accompany it...and theory has long since established that for the ENFP it's the ESFJ <-this is nothing to write home about. And no [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] ...while I am one of the few you will encounter on this site that believes feel or vibe is an important, invaluable tool when it comes to the typing of others... Typing by *feel* is a one-way ticket to Mistypeland...in every case but especially as it pertains to these notorious "common mistypes". You take a 'Get Things Going' ESFJ + the positive outlook of e2 = someone that feels more ENFP than an ENFP (I've actually been wanting to understand why this specific combination produces the 'Pe feel' actually. Like the member [MENTION=4398]Giggly[/MENTION] ISFJ e2...people were constantly trying to convince her she was ESFP in spite of her own protests and test results that generally said otherwise.)

The SFJ descriptions have pissed me off since the get-go...long before I started to wonder how those descriptions were altering the perception of my own type. I'll have to come back...

That's fair. To be honest, most of the SJ descriptions suck big time. Lol

 

[Starry]

Working on a small screen and jumping back and forth between projects I didn't even notice that Chan was responding. Go Chan.

 

[Starry]

you don't seem to me like someone who has to help people for their worth, which is from my understanding what the ESFJ 2s that look like ENFP 4s do on this site. i have nothing against either type i don't i really really really really really don't but you have a different feel. maybe you try to help but doesn't seem as forced to me, like you don't go around trying to convince everyone what NeFi looks like and if someone who has Fi isn't going uh i don't relate to this at all maybe i'm not Fi.

I always appreciate your responses prpl because you have a tendency to get directly to the core of each issue in just a few words. What you have done here is highlight qualities that really should be taken into 'typological' consideration that go beyond the *feel* of the person. In other words, what I primarily see happening is people being satisfied with someone's *feel* and subsequently stopping. Because we are currently discussing a common NFP mistype...we as NFPs can't really help but continue wondering about the differences and what they mean. And then we start to question ourselves and our own type.

 

[prplchknz]

I always appreciate your responses prpl because you have a tendency to get directly to the core of each issue in just a few words. What you have done here is highlight qualities that really should be taken into 'typological' consideration that go beyond the *feel* of the person. In other words, what I primarily see happening is people being satisfied with someone's *feel* and subsequently stopping. Because we are currently discussing a common NFP mistype...we as NFPs can't really help but continue wondering about the differences and what they mean. And then we start to question ourselves and our own type.

if i don't get directly to the issue then i never get to the issue, because my brain is 5 topics away at that point and it's unlikely i'll remember my thoughts on the issue. so i do this to keep everyone else sane.

 

[Cellmold]

I'm not very good with specific examples, but the esfj I know just seems to like to appear to be silly or strange, making pun comments or random asides or connections, getting a laughing response or 'oh esfj, let me pat your head' type of reaction. Sorry, I don't know how to answer your question. I'll respond again if I think of something.

Itz all bout tenshun.

It iz bout "omg yu guyz ahm so halarus, plz cuntinue wiv aplause." Diz bulds so shell nutwerks nd ree-en4sez stndin in da grup.

Th3n diz Leeds too fedbck, letin dem no dat dey nd othuz r wiv in hrmuoney m8nence.

 

[Starry]

Ok sounds good. How much time do you need to retrofit all ENFPs into ESFJ ?

There are statements on this site that are very un-pc to say...but I'd probably give my right arm about now to be ESFJ. Likewise, I have good tobacco and it's not for your ugly nose.


Does the ENTP have any of these?

We've got a large population (ESFJ) with one of the shittiest, most limiting descriptions...that so many of these brilliant, dynamic folks can't even begin to relate to...

with a smaller population (ENFP) that has a (currently) flattering(?) description and/or a description that *feels* like it fits...it is easier to squeeze into (which is easier to do if you are an image type on the enneagram).

Due to the fact we're dealing with a larger population...the mistypes can theoretically out-number the accurately typed and change what we understand to make-up the type.

 

[cascadeco]

Itz all bout tenshun.

It iz bout "omg yu guyz ahm so halarus, plz cuntinue wiv aplause." Diz bulds so shell nutwerks nd ree-en4sez stndin in da grup.

Th3n diz Leeds too fedbck, letin dem no dat dey nd othuz r wiv in hrmuoney m8nence.

What did [MENTION=6723]phobik[/MENTION] do to you? lol

 

[1487610420]

 

[thoughtlost]

Also...

what about the idea that an true-blue ESFJ (even if they do not know that they are ESFJ) could actually be typed as a 9 or a 7??
I really want to know what an ESFJ 7 would look like because I am sure they could exist, right?

 

[prplchknz]

There are statements on this site that are very un-pc to say...but I'd probably give my right arm about now to be ESFJ. Likewise, I have good tobacco and it's not for your ugly nose.


Does the ENTP have any of these?

We've got a large population (ESFJ) with one of the shittiest, most limiting descriptions...that so many of these brilliant, dynamic folks can't even begin to relate to...

with a smaller population (ENFP) that has a (currently) flattering(?) description and/or a description that *feels* like it fits...it is easier to squeeze into (which is easier to do if you are an image type on the enneagram).

Due to the fact we're dealing with a larger population...the mistypes can theoretically out-number the accurately typed and change what we understand to make-up the type.

maybe you should get together a team and re write the ESFJ descriptions, if i had more confidence in my knowledge i'd offer. I can send pictures of kittens for motivation though

 

[fetus]

I'm going to quote what Anaximander here because I think what you're talking about here is actually is an ESFJ quality being misattributed to ENFP. Believe it or not, one of the qualities we've honed in on as a "people's ENFP" quality is the idea of being zany all the time. And the reason is it can be a quality for the ESFJ 2 over ENFP is just like you said - it's part of the charm.



This is exactly how I feel about it. I think if you give an ESFJ 2, who is for the most part looking for positive interactions and experiences affirming their lovability, the tool of Ne and place them in a society that values weirdness and quirkiness they'll engage that side of themselves more because it provides them with more of what they need. The difference is just that too...it's a side of themselves. It's playtime fuel rather than a life force. The reason ESFJs can play up the "zany all the time" quality is because it's less harmful to them to have it criticized. An ESFJ could walk around a room all the time making comical noises or funny comments and not mind some responses poking fun at them because in the end they know they're valued and loved and what's being threatened is not a completely innate part of themselves, while for an ENFP the 6th or 7th look of "haha what the hell are you talk about" will start to get tiring because it's your life force being scrutinized.

Isn't the lovability/affirmation thing part of just being a 2, though?

I agree with your thing about "life force." I am not an ENFP, but I relate myself.

I was an inquisitive child who basically fed off possibilities and patterns and stuff - but it wasn't to entertain; I was just being me and expressing my desire for life and its answers. People actually criticized me for that sort of thing. One time a girl made me her enemy because I annoyed her with too many "what if" questions. And I did not understand why. There are many examples of this in my childhood. I was not trying to be funny or to gain lovability; I was trying to process, express myself, and find answers.

But, I know part of this thread is about feeling upset about NFP mistypes trying to speak for other NFPs, or representing their struggle. Some people here do not agree with my NFP typing (even though I am settled on it), so you can disregard what I say then. I do not speak for other NFPs anyway. I represent myself alone.

I am really just posing a question for the NFPs to see if this is on the mark for you guys. Not trying to make an assertion about everyone. Again, it's just me.