[Fe] ESFJ e2 "The People's ENFP"

[Starry]

Alright Starry starts another thread.

Another masterpiece is born.

 

[Starry]

maybe you should get together a team and re write the ESFJ descriptions, if i had more confidence in my knowledge i'd offer. I can send pictures of kittens for motivation though

This absolutely needs to be done.

And kittens.

 

[Dreamer]

She is more subdued and her full energy and personality only come out in the company of friends and relatives. Why? Because she's spent her whole life receiving strange looks and "whaaaa?" responses to what is her normal and preferred mode of thought. She wasn't always so subdued and introverted, but she's been conditioned to keep a lid on her dominant Ne.

Story of my life, unfortunately

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I agree with those who say it is difficult to mistake an ESFJ for an ENFP in real life, but I feel like it would be easier to on the internet. Especially if they do the pick up traits of ENFPs, and they could fake their Ne dominance.

Not sure how well that was worded, but I hope it made sense.

"Adds two cents to the forum bank*

 

[Haven]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I really enjoyed this thread as I can't help but feel like it was written especially for me

I think tradition is really important, but it comes secondary to human needs and how we relate to each other. If a tradition is found to be harmful or evil it should be abandoned immediately. There's a really good Star Trek episode about that actually (Half a life). Oh, also Snowpiercer illustrates this idea as well.

To me, nothing is more personally rewarding than social acceptance, and nothing is more short-lived. All needs come second to it. When I compromise too much to gain it, I feel inner tension. If I was to start going to church I'd have to reconcile my own atheism with the "high" of being part of something. If I can't, it's over.

I'm still working on a more permanent fix for social need, because without it I get so melancholy and I start listening to The Cure and Joy Division. I think the permanence is where Si comes in to save the day, because communities are built on enduring values, and without them we all fly off in different directions in search of something else.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Bottom line: You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ without expecting to do major psychological damage to the person right? I mean, I'm surprised this isn't an infactable offense.

At any given time, however, there are just as many (if not more) ESFJ 2s mistyped as ENFPs floatin around as there are actual ENFPs. It has always been this way and frankly it has never bothered me (or any of the other NFPs)... until I started to take notice of just how *helpful* the ESFJ 2 truly is.

In other words, these folks are generally the first to "reach out" to others in an effort to help posters with the ENFPs in their lives. They reach out to ENFPs seeking advice as well...but there appears to be a greater likelihood that these mistypes reach out to other types in an effort to answer their ENFP questions and provide advice. And they can seemingly cover a hell of a lot more ground (with what is quite often unhelpful advice) than actual ENFPs. And they do it with rainbows.

You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ... but you sure the fuck don't tell them if they're simultaneously e2 and mistyped as ENFP because this is what the ENFP is now. These mistypes have earned the name "The People's ENFP".


I want to understand why this happens. These folks absolutely believe they are ENFPs...and so does everyone else. I have seen it where these guys are actually producing test results of ESFJ...and people will still work to convince them they are ENFP. The NFPs can see it...but no one else appears to. Why?

What are you saying ? Every ENFP that is very socially open and cares about people is mistyped ESFJ ? Are you sure that you are not simply more of a heartless/I don't care type of ENFP and therefore you can't relate to social pool of your type completely ?

 

[Yama]

What are you saying ? Every ENFP that is very socially open and cares about people is mistyped ESFJ ? Are you sure that you are not simply more of a heartless/I don't care type of ENFP and therefore you can't relate to social pool of your type completely ?

More like saying that poor ESFJ descriptions suck so much that not even ESFJs want to be ESFJs so they cling to ENFP instead.

 

[Tilt]

Just noticed [MENTION=13646]Haven[/MENTION] liked the OP which kinda makes my evening. I miss your presence mister.

hmmm... do you think this would be more common for 2w3 over 2w1? I could see the w3 try to be "chameleon-like" to project a image to be seen as "loveable and accepted" (base desire of e2 is to be loved/get the love that they feel they are not receiving while the base desire of e3 is to feel "valuable and worthy"). I know many more 2w1 ESFJs than 2w3 ESFJs so that's what my perspective was based on.

 

[senza tema]

I like this thread because it sucks to be misunderstood.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I really enjoyed this thread as I can't help but feel like it was written especially for me

I think tradition is really important, but it comes secondary to human needs and how we relate to each other. If a tradition is found to be harmful or evil it should be abandoned immediately. There's a really good Star Trek episode about that actually (Half a life). Oh, also Snowpiercer illustrates this idea as well.

To me, nothing is more personally rewarding than social acceptance, and nothing is more short-lived. All needs come second to it. When I compromise too much to gain it, I feel inner tension. If I was to start going to church I'd have to reconcile my own atheism with the "high" of being part of something. If I can't, it's over.

I'm still working on a more permanent fix for social need, because without it I get so melancholy and I start listening to The Cure and Joy Division. I think the permanence is where Si comes in to save the day, because communities are built on enduring values, and without them we all fly off in different directions in search of something else.

*wipes the tears from her eyes* Yah, this was a pretty dull read here Haven... (haha totally making myself laugh)


I think I've expressed this to you before but if not...please know that I just think the world of you. And you are most definitely one of the first people that comes into my mind whenever I think about this issue. This thread is about you...and me wanting to give a shout-out to your people - to thank them for making us look so good.

It's always interesting...and kinda breathtaking really... all the reasons members put forth in an effort to explain why sites like these have so few SFJs... "they're just too busy doing stuff in the real world" or my personal favorite ..."they just aren't interested in subjects like personality theory" wtf?. And I always think "oh they're here alright in fairly substantial numbers."


Thank you for being one of the 5 or so that shows us how amazing this type is.

 

[Starry]

hmmm... do you think this would be more common for 2w3 over 2w1? I could see the w3 try to be "chameleon-like" to project a image to be seen as "loveable and accepted" (base desire of e2 is to be loved/get the love that they feel they are not receiving while the base desire of e3 is to feel "valuable and worthy"). I know many more 2w1 ESFJs than 2w3 ESFJs so that's what my perspective was based on.

The ESFJs that...idk either self-type as ENFPs or as I've witnessed many times over...arrive here undecided and are convinced by other members that they are ENFPs...have all been 2w3 (although I should say that I came to see that from discussions with other NFPs. I have incorrectly thought some were 6w7 and 3w2...but am in agreement now that as it pertains to an ENFP mistype...2w3 is the culprit.)

 

[Starry]

I like this thread because it sucks to be misunderstood.

You

 

[Tilt]

The ESFJs that...idk either self-type as ENFPs or as I've witnessed many times over...arrive here undecided and are convinced by other members that they are ENFPs...have all been 2w3 (although I should say that I came to see that from discussions with other NFPs. I have incorrectly thought some were 6w7 and 3w2...but am in agreement now that as it pertains to an ENFP mistype...2w3 is the culprit.)

Ahhh... awesome.... that makes a lot more sense... I am not that versed in 2w3s... I seem to gravitate a lot more towards 3w2s and am personally a 3w4.

 

[Dreamer]

I definately think ENFP's really shift a lot on perspective with maturity, this dosn't necessarily go along with chronological age... more experience as ENFP's tend to store all their data under experience and use it as and when. If Fi can be the subtype as per prior suggestion/theory then you'd def be that sub type.

I probably came off a lot more ESFx when younger. When in company I can be upbeat and more bouncy and excitable but it's harder to be like that alone or when nothing new/exciting is being discussed/introduced (include people in that ). But yeah I think my Te does translate more heavily, it add's to a slightly more brash delivery, which can come across a little too bluntly in text sometimes.

This thread is interesting to me because it wouldn't surprise me to find many people claiming to be one type over another to receive the sort of attention they desire. It isn't genuine, but really unless you see someone in person and interact with others, how can we truly tell what type someone is, versus what they are playing up online with whatever persona they conjured up?

...Umm, sorry, somehow I STILL managed to go off on some thought provoked by the line that I BOLDED (nice one, Dreamer), but yes, I agree, and have been finding that to be very true of myself. For example, I don't feel I resonate all the time with every other ENFP on this forum. Yes, I have lofty visions, and all that other ENFP jazz, but I feel with added maturity and experience, I see these goals in a much more realistic sense these days. I used to be far more bright-eyed and optimistic. It's still all there, but it's also obvious to me that Te and Si are working much more in sync with my other functions as well. I don't see myself as fully developed, and doubt I will ever stop growing and maturing, but at 29, I don't doubt that a high school or college-level ENFP would at least look a bit different than me, or one in their 30s and beyond.

So to play devil's advocate here, are the ESFJs, the "People's ENFP", actually ESFJ's? Or are they mature ENFPs? Are we also just quick to apply online labels and stereotypes to people? Not to discredit your observations and judgement [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], just some passing thoughts of mine

Interesting thread indeed!

BTW, it just occurred to me that my initial tangent spawned from [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] and the comments he was making earlier about type bias. Was gonna erase it, but eh, I wanted to say it. Ugh! OK Dreamer, end this post, NOW!

 

[Betty Blue]

This thread is interesting to me because it wouldn't surprise me to find many people claiming to be one type over another to receive the sort of attention they desire. It isn't genuine, but really unless you see someone in person and interact with others, how can we truly tell what type someone is, versus what they are playing up online with whatever persona they conjured up?

...Umm, sorry, somehow I STILL managed to go off on some thought provoked by the line that I BOLDED (nice one, Dreamer), but yes, I agree, and have been finding that to be very true of myself. For example, I don't feel I resonate all the time with every other ENFP on this forum. Yes, I have lofty visions, and all that other ENFP jazz, but I feel with added maturity and experience, I see these goals in a much more realistic sense these days. I used to be far more bright-eyed and optimistic. It's still all there, but it's also obvious to me that Te and Si are working much more in sync with my other functions as well. I don't see myself as fully developed, and doubt I will ever stop growing and maturing, but at 29, I don't doubt that a high school or college-level ENFP would at least look a bit different than me, or one in their 30s and beyond.

So to play devil's advocate here, are the ESFJs, the "People's ENFP", actually ESFJ's? Or are they mature ENFPs? Are we also just quick to apply online labels and stereotypes to people? Not to discredit your observations and judgement [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], just some passing thoughts of mine

Interesting thread indeed!

BTW, it just occurred to me that my initial tangent spawned from [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] and the comments he was making earlier about type bias. Was gonna erase it, but eh, I wanted to say it. Ugh! OK Dreamer, end this post, NOW!

I'd hazard a guess that it would be the other way round.Younger ENFP's would come across as far more bouncy flakey and probably moody.

Actually I thought I was equally a 7 and a 2 when I first took enneagram tests. I have since realised that actually i'm not even close to being a 2. I'm not entirely sure of being a 7w6 I could even be a 6W7 or 7W8... idk I'm not entirely convinced of enneagram especially in a static form since in theory enna type is transient.

I think that [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] has a point, lots of people have joined the forum asking what type they are and people who like them have typed fun loving extroverts into enfp's... I have no idea why... I think it's a type bias... but honestly out of those... i'd wager not a lot are and if it were not for the type bias those people would be equally happy being other types.

Socionics does not have ushc a heavy bias and the upshot of this is that there are a whole lot more people self typing as sensors in general. Check out the socionics groups for confirmation of this. I mean I get the thing with always feeling the cold shoulder in a sensor world... the real world... the one -out there.... *shudder* So i understand that this place can feel a safe haven to those who have had difficulties in cold harsh reality. But I also feel that those people don't deserve hatred or anger, and that to build bridges gaps need to be narrowed... it will be hard to do that if we only accept N's. And type everyone N friendly as N's.


/long ramble

 

[Virtual ghost]

More like saying that poor ESFJ descriptions suck so much that not even ESFJs want to be ESFJs so they cling to ENFP instead.

I know. I have said a number of times that the whole "S stands for stupid" thing should end.


I have criticized the OP because I am fairly sure that she is exaggerating in her claims. In a way towards her logic if you read between the lines (or reversely) it is quite unlikely that ENFP can be a 2. What is especially problematic because it can be said that ENFP 2 is quite likely to look like a Fe-dom. ENFP 2 and ESFJ 2 will be quite alike since they actually share worldview. (unlike unlike Starry and ESFJs 2)

I find reasoning in OP potentally flawed becuase her own type is 7 and the fact that she is Social last. Therefore anyone that is more social and emotinally open in real life will look as a Fe-dom to her, even if the person may not be a Fe-dom. Ok, "more heartless" was perhaps too hard term to use here (English is not my first language). However my point was that social or/and emotional detachment of her type is perhaps making her too push certain limits too far.

There are about 7 300 000 000 people in this world and only 16 MBTI types. It would be weird that everbody within a type can relate.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dreamer]

I'd hazard a guess that it would be the other way round.Younger ENFP's would come across as far more bouncy flakey and probably moody.

Actually I thought I was equally a 7 and a 2 when I first took enneagram tests. I have since realised that actually i'm not even close to being a 2. I'm not entirely sure of being a 7w6 I could even be a 6W7 or 7W8... idk I'm not entirely convinced of enneagram especially in a static form since in theory enna type is transient.

I think that [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] has a point, lots of people have joined the forum asking what type they are and people who like them have typed fun loving extroverts into enfp's... I have no idea why... I think it's a type bias... but honestly out of those... i'd wager not a lot are and if it were not for the type bias those people would be equally happy being other types.

Socionics does not have ushc a heavy bias and the upshot of this is that there are a whole lot more people self typing as sensors in general. Check out the socionics groups for confirmation of this. I mean I get the thing with always feeling the cold shoulder in a sensor world... the real world... the one -out there.... *shudder* So i understand that this place can feel a safe haven to those who have had difficulties in cold harsh reality. But I also feel that those people don't deserve hatred or anger, and that to build bridges gaps need to be narrowed... it will be hard to do that if we only accept N's. And type everyone N friendly as N's.


/long ramble

Oh, oops! I was getting my thoughts mixed up and therefore didn't express them clearly, but yes, I'd say younger ENFPs tend to be the more bouncy and flaky kind indeed.

 

[prplchknz]

This absolutely needs to be done.

And kittens.

you can't write anything on the internet without kittens, its a rule.

 

[Starry]

This thread is interesting to me because it wouldn't surprise me to find many people claiming to be one type over another to receive the sort of attention they desire. It isn't genuine, but really unless you see someone in person and interact with others, how can we truly tell what type someone is, versus what they are playing up online with whatever persona they conjured up?

I only have a minute or so to comment and will use that time to ^address the above in order to make it perfectly clear that I absolutely do not believe these...or any SFJ mistype for that matter are knowingly, falsely presenting themselves as a type they are not. Or said in a different way...I believe a "mistyped" troll or attention whore is extraordinarily rare. Like I said in the OP...these people absolutely believe they are their mistype. And when I consider the SFJ descriptions it makes perfect sense to me as to why.

As for ease of typeability I personally find it far easier to type "over the internet" due to the fact most of the *noise* that occurs for me while interacting is far removed... And I can isolate exactly what is needed to get a fairly accurate gauge of an individual's type all from the comfort of my own pajamas... "what is the person's focus". It doesn't matter if they are talking endlessly about their use of Fi...if you find the person's focus...their function usage will start to unfold to you.

But maybe that's just me.

So to play devil's advocate here, are the ESFJs, the "People's ENFP", actually ESFJ's? Or are they mature ENFPs? Are we also just quick to apply online labels and stereotypes to people? Not to discredit your observations and judgement [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], just some passing thoughts of mine

I personally do not find that age and enneagram matter to the degree others would have me(?) believe. That is merely not my experience. I am an older ENFP myself.

 

[Duffy]

Haven't read the whole thread, but some folks come to mind.

Emma Stone is an FJ who, I imagine, could be seen as 7-ish & ExFP-ish. I think the girl is image triad all the way.

Robin Williams on the other hand I have seen typed as ExFJ, but I think ExFP and e7 fits. He's a very jittery and hyper dude.