[ENFP] enfps are evil

[humblebee]

I don't think anyone thinks you're evil, andresimon.

Seems like folks (myself included) want to explore an idea, one that they are not threatened by. I'm sorry this appears to be hurtful to you.

 

[miss fortune]

civil means civil, dammit!

 

[five sounds]

[MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] I just laughed REALLY hard at that Teflon thing. Hahahah

 

[five sounds]

I completely own up to this; I don't have positive reactions to Introverted Feeling when it's used as a weapon and/or obstructively.

At the same time, I'm a person who sees emotions as so fluctuating that they aren't usually a reliable indicator for making a decision. When people get so defensive about my calling attention to the fact that relying upon emotions first to make decisions can be destructive, I don't really get offended; it's not like I actually care whether or not I am offending the person, but I do try to take care how to phrase so as NOT to offend them because they're less likely to hear you out if you do. After all, "You attract a lot more flies with sugar than vinegar."

Apparently, I'm discovering that people get offended no matter how you dress it up; they'll read what they want to read because they're already on a crusade.

I don't like letting the soft, gooey side of me show merely on the account that it becomes easier for others to manipulate and/or take advantage of you than if you maintain your defenses. Yeah, sure, one can look like a spiky iron fortress that tramples over everything, but at least you're not vulnerable when you inevitably encounter another spiky fortress.

Fi is known for not fluctuating.

 

[Ribonuke]

Fi is known for not fluctuating.

True, Fi is not known to fluctuate, but the emotional fight-or-flight impulsive "This person needs to be struck down because it FEELS right" can fluctuate. I probably should have clarified that I didn't necessarily mean to imply that "emotion" and "morality" are the same thing. Emotion is an instinct that transcends type (although I have noticed Thinkers are more comfortable suppressing it and Feelers are more comfortable releasing it), whereas morality is more of the domain of a Feeler where certain values are organized to help keep individuals "civil" with each other.

Of course--and I apparently can't say this enough--this could just be me projecting my negative experiences with Introverted Feeling upon all others who use it.

 

[Qlip]

True, Fi is not known to fluctuate, but the emotional fight-or-flight impulsive "This person needs to be struck down because it FEELS right" can fluctuate. I probably should have clarified that I didn't necessarily mean to imply that "emotion" and "morality" are the same thing. Emotion is an instinct that transcends type (although I have noticed Thinkers are more comfortable suppressing it and Feelers are more comfortable releasing it), whereas morality is more of the domain of a Feeler where certain values are organized to help keep individuals "civil" with each other.

Of course--and I apparently can't say this enough--this could just be me projecting my negative experiences with Introverted Feeling upon all others who use it.

I would say that believing that people should behave in a civil manner is primarily a general held belief not tied to any function at all. It allows many types to share space, be in meat space or cyber. The concept is useful for people of all different types, at least at one moment or the other. Some people may be more selective when they enjoy enforcing the concept.

Being civil as an expression of Feeling tends to be more Fe. Fi reacts less at the lack of civility and more of the lack of respect for an individual. Sometimes it works out the same, but there's a nuance there that makes the emphasis very different.

To bring it back to the OP, ummm... I suppose Fi being so individual at the service of Novelty sEeking can lead to no good for anybody early in an ENFP's career, which can seem like evil. /Te

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I'm not taking it personally. People weigh words too heavily. I'm focused on the dialogue and the merits behind what is being said as well the implications in the real world because how you feel isn't unique to you, it generalizes pretty heavily.

If someone has positive intentions and is consistently hurting you then they are incompetent or possibly they/you are not accurate in terms of what the intentions are. Also keep in mind, ultimately YOU must judge what you consider "hurtful." I know MANY people who seem to not get along with anyone, but are they hurting people, no... But people seem to hate them and think they are "xyz" and thus they get the short end of the stick. On the flip side I see other people TRULY hurting people around them and yet they seem to be admired and liked. Rarely do I see these things align properly. The point is you started off saying outcomes matter more then intentions but beyond that you said intentions don't have a large impact on outcomes and I think the second part is just simply false. If you are dealing with an idiot then no matter what they do they will probably hurt you or they may accidentally help you but if they are well intentioned they will hurt you less.

As I said. Intentions matter and so do actions. They both matter. That's what I was saying in the beginning. Then layer by layer we got to, what matters more. Intentions matter more. Keep in mind intentions are not static, they do change and people have many layers of intent. So it isn't so black and white.

It is a good idea to focus on peoples actions but then again, given a relatively calm environment, you will find that people can more or less fly under the radar. The minute shit hits the fan though, all of a sudden you realize who the cowards are. To me I always look at actions over a sustained period of time and make a judgement call about someones character. Once I've identified their true nature I tend to stick with that. On a day in and day out basis they can do a lot of things that seem to contradict my assessment but later I realize that it wasn't a contradiction, just an angle I missed.

Character, motive, intentions...matter. They matter a lot.

This is a forum. All you have IS your words.

Sorry (not sorry) for bringing back this boomerang.

 

[prplchknz]

civil means civil, dammit!

or livic which if you add a verticle line to the 'c' at the end becomes livid

 

[miss fortune]

or livic which if you add a verticle line to the 'c' at the end becomes livid

which is bordering on how having to post two in thread warnings in different threads within 5 minutes kind of made me feel!

 

[prplchknz]

which is bordering on how having to post two in thread warnings in different threads within 5 minutes kind of made me feel!

is it because your a new mod? or is it because you use pretty letters?

 

[miss fortune]

is it because your a new mod? or is it because you use pretty letters?

because people were behaving like 5 year olds

who had missed their nap!

 

[prplchknz]

because people were behaving like 5 year olds

who had missed their nap!

dude i want a nap my mom's on the phone i'm making tea

 

[miss fortune]

dude i want a nap my mom's on the phone i'm making tea

naps are awesome... perhaps mandatory nap time as a punishment for offenders?

 

[prplchknz]

naps are awesome... perhaps mandatory nap time as a punishment for offenders?

i'd break the rules all the time then.

 

[EcK]

LOLLLLLL - Thank you for explaining your world view and your misery in the process. Keep your guard up buddy. What psychologists know that most people don't is that you usually create exactly that which you fear. Many "logical" reasons as to why that is.

It is amazing to me how many T's view F's as illogical and themselves as logical. When logic has NOTHING to do with it. F's focus on meaning and T's focus on usefulness.

T doesnt really focus on usefulness. T focuses on things/facts,F focuses on.. F things

 

[Yama]

Why people gotta be so hostile? There are hate threads for just about every type, and most of the time they're started to get attention or whatever. ENFPs have better things to do with their lives then defend themselves to people on the internet. ENFPs, just ignore your haters and go do something fun that's actually worth your time.

 

[uumlau]

Why people gotta be so hostile? There are hate threads for just about every type, and most of the time they're started to get attention or whatever. ENFPs have better things to do with their lives then defend themselves to people on the internet. ENFPs, just ignore your haters and go do something fun that's actually worth your time.

Note that the thread was started by an ENFP seeking to understand more about herself and her type, not as an ENFP-bashing thread.

 

[boomslang]

Lol... This thread has become some sort of joke. Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Joseph Stalin, Napolean Bonaparte. ENTJ's are strongly linked to the Compulsive personality as well as the Sadistic Personality. Paranoid sadists (I'm DRAMATICALLY generalizing here).

ESTP, ESTJ , ISTJ, ESTP. lol.

I guess I'm looking at INTENTIONS & OUTCOMES . A poorly developed ENFP can be "evil". But our baseline is people possibilities. From all the types we desire most to be heroes. From all the types we hold standards and values in the highest regard. It's a joke the way you as well as everyone else here is generalizing ENFP's.

You generalised them yourself just now. Are you upset that people didn't use coddling adjectives to describe a type?

We are strongly linked to the Hisotronic personality disorders. Always look to get attention and acting out to do so and we can be borderline, narcissistic, and hypomanic. In short we are HIGHLY volatile and VERY expressive and often times in not the most positive way...we troll a lot.

I personally didn't refer to them as evil, I referred to them as being effortlessly cruel and sometimes sociopathic. Thank you for unravelling your point and supporting my observations in the process, much appreciated.

Everything anyone has described in this thread that they view as "evil" has been linked to some of the tendencies of poorly developed ENFP's but you guys are using ALL the wrong adjectives. They are NOT consistent with ENFP's.

lol. You wouldn't know consistency if it shat on your lawn in front of your very eyes.

You have bunched a whole bunch of things into a single word, "Evil" or "Sociopaths, "Psychopaths". With the two most extreme comments coming from ENTJ's and ENTP's.

You're not even attributing the right designations to me. And there's nothing particularly extreme about my observation either. It simply is what it is.

Lol...Funny how ENFP's are being called sociopathic when the ESTP is known as the psychopath and/or sociopath personality when poorly developed. And poorly developed ENTJ's are compulsive sadists.

Known as the psychopath/sociopath type by whom, exactly? Are you not able to observe anything yourself? Why are you trying to cover up an emotional tantrum with fake logic?

Although an ENFP can GET THEIR eventually within the full spectrum of experience in the world, you are BOUND to find all personality types showing all levels of behavior. BUT this is not our standard baseline. While BOTH ESTP's and ENTJ's would get to that point of what our society normally views as "evil" FAR more quickly because it is in the baseline of their cognition. Meaning environment does NOT have to play as large of a roll for ENTJ or ESTP's. From probabilistic standpoint you guys should be pointing the fingers back at yourselves before you point it an ENFP.

Do explain all of this excerpt in detail. It would give me great enjoyment to see you pretend to present a logical argument again.

 

[violet_crown]

I guess I'm looking at INTENTIONS & OUTCOMES . A poorly developed ENFP can be "evil". But our baseline is people possibilities. From all the types we desire most to be heroes. From all the types we hold standards and values in the highest regard. It's a joke the way you as well as everyone else here is generalizing ENFP's. We are strongly linked to the Hisotronic personality disorders. Always look to get attention and acting out to do so and we can be borderline, narcissistic, and hypomanic. In short we are HIGHLY volatile and VERY expressive and often times in not the most positive way...we troll a lot.

I don't often quote myself, but when I do, it's for people who were too lazy to actually read a thread they're freaking out over.

When I was a kid, my Papa used to say to me, "Rex, you're not bad, you just do bad things sometimes."

That logic has always been something of a guiding principle when evaluating human goodness while avoiding some kind of attribution error. That is because it allows for the ability to parse out an individual and whatever their circumstances may be from certain actions which by all means should and be considered evil.

Child rape is evil. Murder, no matter how justified, is evil. I don't think that's something that people should have to equivocate about out of some misguided sense of political correctness.

To bring it home a bit, I've seen some supposedly well-intentioned ENFPs leave disproportionate amounts of carnage in their wake allegedly out of a need to "spare people's feelings". Whether they are evil or not is almost entirely besides the point of the fact of the destructiveness of their behavior. I would give those ENFPs as wide a berth as someone who was a genuine sociopath because their net impact on me and mine is effectively the same. ESPECIALLY those who are too intellectually sloppy or simply morally bankrupt to see that a whole hearted belief in people's "inherent goodness"--their own above all, I'm sure--prevents them from doing the hard work of looking at the consequences of their actions, taking responsibility for those and actually doing right as opposed to saying such and such a thing is and hoping the rest of us are to dazzled into sympathy to know the difference.

Do I think that ENFPs are evil? No. But I do wish they tried more to be as good as they say they are.

...or if you prefer the TL;DR version for both of our arguments:

Semantics time! I've always thought what characterized evil is the willful intent to do bad. From this point of view, ENFPs are rarely evil.

By this definition, neither was Hitler.

 

[JocktheMotie]

If evil is defined as "bratty and not self aware" then sure.