Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Still have questions as to how Fi affects other INTP's.
Fi is supposed to be an internal ethical system dealing with personal and universal values, and also described by Hartzler as "the Conscience" (while Ti is "The Analyst", and Fe is "The Guide").
So how are INTP's with conscience? Part of the "emotionless robot" stereotype would include having no conscience, being Fi is supposed to be at the bottom of the consciousness. Conscience is then assumed to only "bother" FP's. Yet I'm thinking it would really be less of a 'bother' to those for whom it is 'heroic' or 'parental' (preferred; in first two positions), and if it bothers you, it is a sign of a shadow role.
So, when it does surface, we would expect it to be very negative, according to the "demon/destructive" archetype. Even though I have come to see these archetypes as complexes that do not mark every manifestation of behavior associated with the function; when in the "demonic personality" complex (under stress, in a situation when the Ti hero cannot solve the problem, and the "right brain alternative" kicks in), we would expect negative reactions involving matters of conscience and values.
With me, I have always had a very negative reaction towards guilt, and often get annoyed just from seeing another person who appears morally self-contented, especially if they have been moralizing at others. Hence, I used to be irritated by Christian preachers who condemned everyone else. This creates a desire to lash back, and destroy their stance, using the same process in a destructive way, like a club, as one person described to me. (I do eventually become a Christian myself due to other factors, but still would remain opposed to those who take the moralizing past a certain point; and now I could try to beat them at their own game).
I imagine that this is from Fi being the most rejected part of the self, so you're totally allergic to guilt, and hence, try to squelch it and thus this would make the type appear to have little conscience.
And I imagine there would be a sort of deep-seated envy towards those who appear to have clear consciences, especially if they gain this by judging you or others, or if you know they are not really innocent. (And especially if they are guilty of the same things they criticize you or others for). Hence, a desire to strip them down.
Fi types; I have seen described as tending to respond to conscience by giving in more (unless a core value is really at stake). They don't seem to actively resist just to avoid guilt feelings.
So is this accurate for other INTP's (and ISTP's)? And would FP's tend to be less allergic to guilt feelings, and more embracing of conscience, and more tolerant toward moralizing and self-contentment in others?
Are TP's also irritated by someone telling you to examine yourself (outside of the normal examining we do regarding fitting into a type or using the theory). You know; in a moralistic way? Like when they are criticizing you for something, and you deflect it, but then they say to "look at yourself" so you can recognize and change "faults"? (Self-examination, I believe, being associated with Fi).
Do you tend to bring on this admonition by pointing out others' wrong when they criticize you (which I believe would be Se as Trickster; using concrete facts to double bind the other person by throwing the charges back on them or others)?
Fi is supposed to be an internal ethical system dealing with personal and universal values, and also described by Hartzler as "the Conscience" (while Ti is "The Analyst", and Fe is "The Guide").
So how are INTP's with conscience? Part of the "emotionless robot" stereotype would include having no conscience, being Fi is supposed to be at the bottom of the consciousness. Conscience is then assumed to only "bother" FP's. Yet I'm thinking it would really be less of a 'bother' to those for whom it is 'heroic' or 'parental' (preferred; in first two positions), and if it bothers you, it is a sign of a shadow role.
So, when it does surface, we would expect it to be very negative, according to the "demon/destructive" archetype. Even though I have come to see these archetypes as complexes that do not mark every manifestation of behavior associated with the function; when in the "demonic personality" complex (under stress, in a situation when the Ti hero cannot solve the problem, and the "right brain alternative" kicks in), we would expect negative reactions involving matters of conscience and values.
With me, I have always had a very negative reaction towards guilt, and often get annoyed just from seeing another person who appears morally self-contented, especially if they have been moralizing at others. Hence, I used to be irritated by Christian preachers who condemned everyone else. This creates a desire to lash back, and destroy their stance, using the same process in a destructive way, like a club, as one person described to me. (I do eventually become a Christian myself due to other factors, but still would remain opposed to those who take the moralizing past a certain point; and now I could try to beat them at their own game).
I imagine that this is from Fi being the most rejected part of the self, so you're totally allergic to guilt, and hence, try to squelch it and thus this would make the type appear to have little conscience.
And I imagine there would be a sort of deep-seated envy towards those who appear to have clear consciences, especially if they gain this by judging you or others, or if you know they are not really innocent. (And especially if they are guilty of the same things they criticize you or others for). Hence, a desire to strip them down.
Fi types; I have seen described as tending to respond to conscience by giving in more (unless a core value is really at stake). They don't seem to actively resist just to avoid guilt feelings.
So is this accurate for other INTP's (and ISTP's)? And would FP's tend to be less allergic to guilt feelings, and more embracing of conscience, and more tolerant toward moralizing and self-contentment in others?
Are TP's also irritated by someone telling you to examine yourself (outside of the normal examining we do regarding fitting into a type or using the theory). You know; in a moralistic way? Like when they are criticizing you for something, and you deflect it, but then they say to "look at yourself" so you can recognize and change "faults"? (Self-examination, I believe, being associated with Fi).
Do you tend to bring on this admonition by pointing out others' wrong when they criticize you (which I believe would be Se as Trickster; using concrete facts to double bind the other person by throwing the charges back on them or others)?