sculpting
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- Jan 28, 2009
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Well I'm trying to think of what this could possibly correlate to. AFAIK those who were defending it a lot from Fe users were enneatype 4's? Correct me if I'm wrong. That would mean that they have probably made the definition of Fi apart of their being and individuality; which is what being a 4 is about. So they probably don't want something that is apart of their being changed by someone else; and they probably think it's perfect in every way deep down. But they don't want to express that in front of the Ti users here. Having that part of themselves ripped to shreds logically would be a difficult thing for them to endure, so they lash out. There is no other reason I can see as to why they would take it so personally.
I feel an inherent sense of clinging to authenticity. In the past I have valued authenticity and honesty to myself above most everything. Perhaps Fi defines us, thus to not defend it is to not defend ourselves? I dunno...lashing out is tert Te though. 4 sounds most familiar to me.
Ne doms hate rejection more than anything. So perhaps for NeFi, critical attack of Fi, feels like rejection of them as a person. Admitting an Fi flaw is like admitting you are flawed a a human. Like attacking a Ti generated idea of an ENTP perhaps?
My Fi is all fucked up, but these threads that offer Fi critique still can be hard. Even talking to my IRL entp about Fi can be hard. I have to revert to Te and logical analyze Fi like it is a isolated creature to learn lessons. It emotionally hurts if I extend Fi to care for another and am rebuffed. I do not understand why. When this happens I dont feel like I was being offensive or trying to control another-only extending pure love and caring. I just refrain from offering Fi mostly. (dude, even writing this makes me want to tear up a bit-urggghhhh)
Another thing to keep in mind is that I would guess that I_FP Fi would be more ready to improve itself in this manner than E_FP Fi. This is because of the function's placements. I_FPs lead with Fi, meaning it's a lifestyle of sorts and a default thing to fall back on. This is an internal process, just like any other dominant function. You generally see I_FP's Fi expressed through Se or Ne. So what I'm trying to get to is that the I_FP's Fi is very personal and internal as a process.
However, for E_FP's Fi, it's different. The second function is directed towards people, it has a "parent" or advice role. It can get overprotective and over critical at times. I still don't understand how Fi could be used this way in any good way to be honest. I cannot grasp the concept of 2ndary Fi. I would guess though that it would be using the other person's inner emotions for the E_FP's whims. Whether that be helping them with the feelings, or using the feelings of others to get gain for themselves. So I would say it's easy to see how they could be tagged as pretentious.
ewwww.... that sounds yucky BC.
I think enfps want to help people become something more, see them happy, not control them. Why...? We mirror their emo, so a happy person means a happy enfp. Yet we have a cute judgemental Te lurking inside of us. So we have a set of Te standards we apply to what we would like to see them become. (We almost always fail our own standards btw.) We endless adjust those standards for others-ie endlessly forgive, recognizing each person is unique.
We like to help them grow into whatever THEY want to be, within our Fi/Te framework, where, from what I understand, an ENFJ wants them to grow into what the ENFJ thinks they SHOULD be. (warning-very, very limited enfj data set IRL, so not even sure that is right, apologies if fucked up, please correct)
On another Fi/Te combo person all of the above works okay. So we get 50% of the population.
We sort of stumble by with the Fe doms and auxs. I think IRL both sides think they are communicating and lose info in translation. We also annoy the shit out of each other as can be seen here over and over again. My best lessons are from Proteo describing rude Fi behavior.
With Ti doms, it just doesnt seem to reach extreme frustration. With my ISTP ex, I just never let him see Fi. ever.
The worst is with the EXTPs. Couple of reasons I think:
1. We use Te as the toolkit to "help". Te sounds very controlling and bossy. For me Fe tries to tell me how to feel and I rebel. I'd make a wild guess that maybe Te feels like it is trying to tell Ti how to think? My EXTPs despise Te.
2. The Te/Fe defensive reactions. My Fi gets poked, I lash out with Te. The EXTP then defends with Fe trying to regain control starting a downhill cycle.
3. Fi is some weird ass shit. It is a metaphorical mist that permeates others kinesthetically. I literally "feel" them, not see them. Today my ENTP was baffled-every Fi user she asks a set of Qs to gave her the same answer. WTF? How can Fi really be the same for all of these people? Yet it seemed to be based upon a pool of enfp/istj users.
I think Fi is super fuzzy. It is utterly, openly accepting of mismatch error. "meh, we are only 20% in agreement? yeah, we match!". So two Fi users can feel moderately different but still be okay with the unspoken assumption that they "feel" the same. Maybe this is true?? I dunno...maybe Fi is really that simple biochemically.
Works great till you apply it to Ti which seeks utter precision in everything. I would guess that it is not a real "match" for Ti, unless it is a perfect match-which is impossible given the individual uniqueness inherent in Ti. Thus Fi plunges in, mismatches terribly, makes all these unspoken assumptions, then Te goes-"Ah, my Fi said you feel this(with a 20% match rate), so here do these things from my Te toolbox". Thus we fucked with Ti precision and Te powerplayed them all at once.
They get a wee bit pissy bout this time.
All this is super subconscious-so not really above radar honestly for most folks, so I dont think we are aware of what we are doing or why it is so very offensive to them.