You know there is some truth to this. It doesn't bother me like it does you Orobas but it still can and does. I can feel unappreciated, get annoyed, sometimes angry and yes defensive. It's criticizing me somehow as to who I am at my core. My reaction might be for example, "I'm happy to consider whatever views and opinions you have. Really I am. But NO. I really should NOT FEEL THAT WAY. Be free to feel whatever way you want though."
Of course Fi is not as high up the stack for me and so I might be more immune.
Yes, nice post that shows the Te armor-effect well. Te is a natural Fe inoculant - the elevation of it in the "stack" means you have already processed through the "This is / I am right" filter before you get to Fi. Without Te or Fe in the dom or aux position, one does not naturally possess the ability to readily fend off a Te or an Fe agenda.
What I'm mostly aware of around "obvious" Fe types is competition for organisational control.
Yes, that's well said.
As an INFP, I am always fascinated to watch the Te / Fe dynamic in doms & aux's. Both circle 'round, recognize each as power players, and even though each may not agree with or understand the motives of the other, both recognize the alpha-type positioning they are negotiating or navigating towards attaining. lol as an Fi dom, I have to use a raft of strategies if I want my agenda to become the executable.
Te imitating Fe. Gotta choose your battles. Sometimes what they're saying even kinda makes sense. Who'da thunk?
I think it kind of makes sense because you at least recognize the familiar aspects of the function. So even if the conclusions don't make sense to you, the process still does - that there's an equation that runs through some alternate variables to come up with a different answer, but you still recognize there's an equation. It enables you to give Fe berth until it violates an Fi core value you have awareness of or sensitivity towards.
...you always must be aware of how you are acting and how it will come off to others and you are always aware of how others are acting and how that changes things for you.
This is where sometimes I think there's a muddiness between typology and enneagram. For me, despite being Fi dom, I am also so dom, so I do feel aware of this stuff, even if I don't always "get" the Fe-ers POV. But I feel the ripple effect, I know what I say and do impacts others and I can watch it play through, watch others trying to play through too. One big difference I think though is that I use data to try to convince others, not emotion. Not like an Fe dom or aux esp does.
There is nothing like 4 or 5 EXXJs vying for power... just shoot me now... it's quite a spectacle. LOL
lol indeed!
Now, whether it's accurate to say that Fi people don't put on a face ever or at all: I wouldn't say that.
No, we do put on faces. It would be more about sins of omission perhaps? I don't tell everything, don't reveal everything.
Plus, I DO put on a sweet face when I feel sour and there are times I know what people are expecting to hear and so give it to them. Does that mean I am literally, fake? By my personal definitions, yes it does.
But there are times when the social grease makes life easier rather than harder; I just wish it didn't make me feel so scripted to employ it.
I'll probably have to eat these words, but to some degree Fe face is less troublesome than Fi hype.
Oh I agree it is. As an Fi dom, I certainly know how troublesome it can be to others. Fi must be organized in every way to be effective in the world.
For example, as an agent of change - if I decide to enter the fray, I will have all my data ready to convince the Te types, and all the social benefits / people logistical information ready for the Fe types - for other types, I will have already mentally designated areas needing detail oriented task work or imaginative creative brainstorming and will be ready to engage those people as well. In order to deploy an Fi agenda, it is not enough to say "This is wrong, change needs to happen." One must carefully navigate all the players to a successful conclusion. Lots of work. Took me time to learn this.
What I get mostly from Fe is a sense of a person driving toward something. They seem driven. And they wish to drive me too, but I don't share the priorities so I "feel" no particular pressure to accommodate.
As above, you have Te that seems to inoculate you against overt pressure from the Fe perspective. You can see they are driving towards something, but you don't share the goal, so it is easier to brush off, mostly because you know MOL where you stand already, even if not on a topic by topic basis, from a core fundamental aspect of your cognitive bias.
It's different if they have actual authority over my position or they have opportunity to introduce their priorities into my organisation, but different in the sense that I expect they will make a large mess where I would otherwise have had something workable. Even then it's unlikely I'll attend to their priorities, even if I could. The priority at such times is the removal of their influence.
Your Te recognizes and even respects their authority, and it's natural for you to defer to that, unless it makes no sense at all. I suspect if you, as an INTJ, were faced with an intelligent, strategic Fe dom or aux, you would have a battle on your hands to "remove their influence" though. Would call for a long term strategy. Dangerous too, unless you have authority and power in your own right. Fe folks are smarter with people, hands-down.
The problem Fi has with Fe is that Fe violates the realm of the personal for Fi, just as Te violates the realm of the personal for Ti, that there is something deeply offensive about the Fe approach to matters, irrespective of the particular values. I see Ti types just as offended by my Te approach. Where Fi sees Fe as "fake", Ti sees Te as "condescending". Where Fi sees Fe as shallow or superficial, Ti sees Te as stupid or simplistic.
Yes, I liked this post (shortened for brevity's sake.)
I have often chatted with U about this-I envy the INTJ ability to not be emotionally invaded by the Fe nudges to the same extent that NFPs can be.
Indeed. Yep.
However both sides are too busy feeling emo-offended and defensive to address the communication failing...such is the world.
I'm not sure I agree with this though ... I have been in the ring, I will stick with each round, but I feel as an Fi - Te user, if you're not careful, the Fe - Ti user will leave the ring and it's over. I may need time to re-group, but I will re-enter the ring. You hit too hard on the Fe - Ti person, and there's no way they will re-engage, work it through to win-win. I don't know exactly what to say about that, except that it just IS. But I feel pretty sad about that being the way it is.
Are you projecting your own Te onto their Fe? Then they just look like whiny, somehwat illogical TJs?
I think it's that recognition of the process - I feel it with INTP's, maybe you feel it with ENTP's - there's a familiarity to the way the processes work? A sense of simpatico?
Anecdotally, when my hubs (Te dom) talks about Fe doms, it's always with a mix of admiration and annoyance - admiration because he sees them work towards their goals and how they go after them with savvy, annoyance more to the fact they are playing the room rather than the ideas.