[MENTION=15003]Vilku[/MENTION] I am curious, who is this sole person (ISTJ) that has so tainted your view of all ISTJ's? They must have done a number on you of incalculable damage as to leave you having such negative views of ISTJ's. You almost make it sound like ISTJ's are plotting to take over the world for their own selfish desires. I would encourage you to actively meet other ISTJ's, so that they can give you a clearer and hopefully more optimistic view of ISTJ's as a whole. Also be warned, INFJ's intuition and instincts about people may be useful and accurate a good portion of the time, but it is not foolproof, what you sense in others (in particular this ISTJ) may be quite different from what s/he is actually thinking/feeling/behaving as.
several, but i have came across one good istj too, and several which i didnt get to know well enough to say.
im still trying to find a way to view world in such a way where i dont have to go over huge lengths of efforts to understand Fi morals. (its like Fi's have a like bar for every person and depending where they fall on that decides the treatment, whereas we Fe's treat everyone equally. i just dont think its fair to do amoral actions on people just cause you thought on that moment that you didnt like them.)
and yeah, im also trying to come in terms that my understanding/intuition is never final, even though it feels always so convincing.
yep, i hope id meet some more of those good istj's in my road.
I don't think you understand what I meant, but yes I was being rather vague: an ISTJ WILL DO THEIR DUTY. If their Fi is developed, they will stick to their morals like glue, the captain going down with the ship. You just pissed me off? I hate your behavior in this moment? I can't let you starve to death. You're my ______. (father, mother, lover, best friend, employee, responsibility). It's not that they care so much about not hurting your feelings, not entirely unlike xxFPs. Except instead of discussing it or expressing it, they just DO IT.
Do I think all ISTJs are good people? Of course not, I'm not sure what you take me for. And I like some ENTPs, it's not like I'm saying ENTPs are universally "bad."
I just know that the ISTJ will do the "correct procedure" (Si/Te) he will do his best to go down with his proverbial ethical ship.
My grandfather could be an unberable asshole, though I didn't see this much until my teens he was very sweet or just quiet for most of my childhood because he had this moral about children, but he always did right by me, as he saw fit.
I've experienced the loyalty of an ISTJ man in my adult life, albeit too briefly, and I felt like something had dropped out of the floor beneath me when he was gone from my life, I can't imagine how much more devastated I would have been if we had grown closer.
Even the ISTJ guy I've been seeing casually for a few months responds to everything with almost constant civil politeness and rationality, although I've seen his "human" side, he does get mad and irritated with other people and has let me down emotionally before, he has never once been anything but a perfect gentleman to me in his speech, even if I insult him. I'm sure he'd probably start to insult me more if he felt more comfortable with me and he had deeper feelings because then he'd start to break down, that's what happened with the first ISTJ, he seemed like he could take anything, and I was shocked the first time I actually REALLY HURT HIM, and he had an Fi shit-fit and was like "omg you whore you're meaner to me than anyone in the world" when he had up until that point pretty much let everything roll off him like water. But that kind of thing comes if they let you closer to their heart or something,
It's just about finding an ISTJ with matching morals. Or better morals, lol.
", but that many of them would rather DIE than violate their own morals"
you know, thats not very helpful if they just simply dont have morals, or their morals are along the line "everyone is just material, so it doesnt matter what i do to them", aka atheism gone seriously wrong.
" and if s/he has any feelings of love or even moral responsibility to me," and if not, youre then just fine they do whatever they wish to you completely ignoring your wishes? i dont have time to befriend everyone, so i should expect other people to still treat me morally even when i lack the time to personally tend to them.
thats the whole deal why Fi morals are annoyingly evil, cause if you arent their friend by an instant, they assume the opposite.
" but the bottom line is that an ISTJ with well-developed Fi sticks to their moral guns, whatever they happen to be."
yeah its good as long as the istj has time to grow in a friendly environment so theyd develop one, but what about all the failed cases? im blind to what i think doesnt make rational sense, and immorality is something completely driven by emotion, thus im naturally blind to it until ive been hit by one.
This is just deceiving both them and yourself.
"This sounds more like INTJ. ISTJ is more likely to go overboard in support of some established framework or external value set (for example, Javert in Les Miserables)."
no, intj's are too wimpy to use other people for their desires, you wish you could but you were never made to be the one who takes action.
what im talking about desires, are things like monetary and status gains, all the superficial of kind.
bring me one intj who is able to realize their daydreams of using other people. thats right, intj's arent really capable of the evil they wish to be,or hopefully dont wish.