• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

You aren't an INFP.

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
How does a person confuses INFP and ISFJ is beyond me. INFP's preferred function is introverted feeling which is ISFJs least preferred function. Introverted feeling for ISFJs is the critial parenting function. The critial parenting function is the hardest to use for an individual. ISFJ's use introverted thinking which is a function that INFPs don't like using. Ti is INFPs 8th function which is known as the devil function. People dislike using their 8th function because it brings out the worst in a person.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,731
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I agree with the OP but there's also no possible way that I'm an ISFJ lol. see the way my brain is set up....

I was raised by an ISTJ and an ESFJ.

I'm a hybrid. :newwink:

my parents are ENFP and INTP ;) except I've been considering ENFJ for my mom but idk.
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
How does a person confuses INFP and ISFJ is beyond me. INFP's preferred function is introverted feeling which is ISFJs least preferred function. Introverted feeling for ISFJs is the critial parenting function. The critial parenting function is the hardest to use for an individual. ISFJ's use introverted thinking which is a function that INFPs don't like using. Ti is INFPs 8th function which is known as the devil function. People dislike using their 8th function because it brings out the worst in a person.

From the FJ thread:

I have been reading much of this, but didn't quite make it through all 20 pages, so apologies if this has already been stated by someone.

Lenore Thompson and Socionics both present a function-attitude model which presents what I think is a truth about these preferences....Basically, if you are Fe-dom (as an example), then Fi is not all that unconscious or mysterious, etc. Rather, you don't feel a need to use that feeling-attitude much because for you, Fe covers it. But you actually would access that part of your psychology far more comfortably than Ti, which would reside at the entrance to the unconscious (ironically, giving it a greater pull on your psychology, BECAUSE it is under less conscious control). Likewise, a Fi type can access Fe pretty easily if so inclined, although like all other functions, it will be in the service of the ego (in this case Fi, or perhaps Pe). Fi and Fe types appear to dismiss each other because, well, they do that within their own psychology. This is true of all functions with different attitudes, IMO. They threaten each-other far less than they simply see one as a less effective way of dealing with that particular function (in this case - Feeling). Most of the time, that means they tolerate and even respect the other attitude pretty easily.

This sort of brings us to the whole thing about personal values. YES, personal values DO NOT equal Fi. They don't define it, are not exclusive to it, etc. They are not even exclusive to Feeling. I think part of this confusion stems from what was originally meant by that phrase. It is often interpreted to mean "what an individual determines is important", when I think it simply meant "determining what value is in relation to the human condition". It is personal in that it has a human quality, not that it stems from an individual.
The former is something almost all people do - they know their own likes/dislikes and have various things that they deem important or unimportant, etc. The latter indicates a Feeling focus, but not Fe or Fi, just Feeling in general. It is using the human experience as the gauge. Thinking types prefer to gauge things impersonally, which doesn't eclipse their having personal values or moral standards, but their decision making is not focused on what something means to the human experience.

So the primary difference between Fi and Fe is the attitude, as they serve the same function (and why they view the other as semi-redundant). This boils down to the part of the human experience each focuses on, what they use as the gauge.
While this is an oversimplification, I think it is better and more helpful than many other simple ways of differentiating the two:
- Fi focuses on the space within people
- Fe focuses on the space between people

Basically, if you wanted to understand the value of things in relation to the inner human experience, then who is your best case study? Who can you thoroughly explore internally with no holds barred? Yourself! The self is the prototype for the inner experience for the Fi-dom. They are using the self as a gauge for what value things have in relation to the inner human condition. They spend a lot of time building and refining this gauge. Emotions are examined to understand what needs of the inner experience are being signaled as met or violated. They recognize the parallels between the inner states of all people (much as the physical human body has essentially the same parts and basic needs but can look very different and require different ways of meeting those needs). The focus on unique preferences is just recognizing how the same core needs can look so different and be met differently, but the main point is that there ARE those bigger values which are a truth beyond the self. So that is Fi....something of a paradox :D.

Similarly, Fe, being extroverted, wants to understand the value of things in relation to the shared, interactive human experience. How does Fe type go about that? They have to interact and observe interaction. They have to learn about people as they are in relationships, not in their isolated internal states. They have to ask: how do people relate and connect and what are the results of this? I think it is less about a group than dynamics, which can just be two people. This doesn't mean the person doesn't hold personal preferences or values, but they just focus less on it, because that is not their gauge for the bigger meaning (something Fi types are actually focused on more also). To refine that gauge means you have to be in that space a lot. This doesn't mean they ignore their own emotional reactions either. Rather they don't study what it means for themselves so much as how it affects that "space between". How it affects that space is, in fact, often what spurs a genuine emotion within them, because the emotion is just a signal of a value being met/violated. Example: affecting that space positively is met with a positive emotion.

Remember that extroversion is much more in "real time". Introverted functions are conceptual and seek to bypass constraints of time/culture/situation/etc. Extroverted attitudes form according what is happening in a specific context. This is why we associate Fe so much with cultural values, although that is NOT what it is. Rather, Fe is gauging value using the external dynamics between people, so it is ACTIVE. It shapes as much as it is shaped. It HAS to be open to affect and affecting to be an accurate gauge. Fi is less active outwardly; it is resisting affect and declining to affect in order to keep a purity of the prototype (the natural self, untouched by outer contexts). Neither can do this 100%, but it is what the focus is on.

Now, for IxFJs, this can be murky because they are introverts and the inner experience is the part of reality they focus on. For an introvert, the inner world is more real, it is what is valid and trustworthy. Since these individuals will have more focus on their inner world, and less tendency to seek interaction, then that may make the lines between Fe and Fi very unclear (as there are not perfectly clear lines to begin with, as the Thompson and Socionics models illustrate). I think what can help distinguish this is observing the "space" you tend to focus on when determining value that is NOT a matter of personal preference. Is it the self as a prototype or is the dynamic between people? Which do you see as leading to a more reliable end for determining a bigger value? Perhaps you recognize both roads go there, but which are you inclined to take?

Personally, I do feel many ISFJs mistype because of misunderstandings of Fe. In a previous thread on ESFJs mistyping as ENFP, I briefly explained why I think ISFJs sometimes mistype as INFP (more than INFJs would). That is not the focus here, and neither is Fi, but I think it all relates to how Fe is misrepresented.
 

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
Why would I need to know what the Fi and Fe mean?
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Why would I need to know what the Fi and Fe mean?

Well, I mean, you have to understand them to talk about Fi and Fe types, don't you?
 

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
Well, I mean, you have to understand them to talk about Fi and Fe types, don't you?

Fi is how feel.
Fe is how other feel.

You made the assumption that I needed to know what the functions mean. I have never showed lack of understand what the function mean.
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Fi is how feel.
Fe is how other feel.

You made the assumption that I needed to know what the functions mean. I have never showed lack of understand what the function mean.

Sorry, I meant the "general you" there--I probably should have just said "one"
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I FUCKING LITERALLY JUST SENT CHAN A REP SAYING ALL MOMS ARE ESFJS AND ALL DADS ARE ISTJS AND THEN I REFRESH THE PAGE AND YOU

Edit: Tell me your dad's the ESFJ and your mom's the ISTJ, prove me wrong

YOU HAVE NI :horror:

Ps my mom is an ISFJ and my dad is an ESTJ
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
YOU HAVE NI :horror:

Ps my mom is an ISFJ and my dad is an ESTJ

This is just like that one time I predicted how an episode of pokemon was going to end I must be an Ni-dom sorry guys I'm INFJ now
 

fetus

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
2,575
Enneagram
6w7
I FUCKING LITERALLY JUST SENT CHAN A REP SAYING ALL MOMS ARE ESFJS AND ALL DADS ARE ISTJS AND THEN I REFRESH THE PAGE AND YOU

Edit: Tell me your dad's the ESFJ and your mom's the ISTJ, prove me wrong

...my mom is the ESFJ. Dad is ISTJ.
...you were not wrong.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
Really, this is usually explained away with population percentages and theories on who is more inclined to start a family....

This is an interesting prospective and theory. I'm not really inclined to think though that there is a strong correlation between type and wanting to start a family. I'd be open to it being possible though.

I'd expect there to be a more pronounced tilt within enneagram if one exists.
 

SD45T-2

Senior Jr.
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
4,239
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I FUCKING LITERALLY JUST SENT CHAN A REP SAYING ALL MOMS ARE ESFJS AND ALL DADS ARE ISTJS AND THEN I REFRESH THE PAGE AND YOU

Edit: Tell me your dad's the ESFJ and your mom's the ISTJ, prove me wrong
My dad is an ISTP. :shrug:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
How does a person confuses INFP and ISFJ is beyond me. INFP's preferred function is introverted feeling which is ISFJs least preferred function. Introverted feeling for ISFJs is the critial parenting function. The critial parenting function is the hardest to use for an individual. ISFJ's use introverted thinking which is a function that INFPs don't like using. Ti is INFPs 8th function which is known as the devil function. People dislike using their 8th function because it brings out the worst in a person.

I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but how do you figure critical parent function is most difficult to use? It's typically how types chastise others. For example, the EXFP may become weirdly naggy about socially accepted behavior during an argument, or just under stress. Something that a calm happy EXFP is less likely to do, though they tend to use their Fi in a more impersonal way i.e. the advocate/champion or entertainer/politician ...for ENFP it's about the cause, get out of the way, but it won't be about crossing your legs in a dress or how to be more politically correct...again, unless they're arguing or stressed, then they may suddenly resort to lame PC bs. And the ESFP maneuvers either as an entertainer, using their Fi to enrich others through laughter, art, music or some other impersonal way that's really about them and only incidentally beneficial to others. ..or the SEE ESFP politician, who probably looks similar to an ENFP champion, but is likely less democratic yet more tactical in their maneuvers. The ENFP is better with diplomacy, but the ESFP with knowing how to manipulate the political situation to their personal values through manipulation or tactics. I think ESFPs are more likely to throw rocks through windows or throw fake blood on people's fur coats, while the ENFP is pleasantly bringing more people into the fold with cheerful enthusiasm. BUT ...yeah the EXFP becomes a nag under stress.
 

great_bay

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
987
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
541
I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but how do you figure critical parent function is most difficult to use? It's typically how types chastise others. For example, the EXFP may become weirdly naggy about socially accepted behavior during an argument, or just under stress. Something that a calm happy EXFP is less likely to do, though they tend to use their Fi in a more impersonal way i.e. the advocate/champion or entertainer/politician ...for ENFP it's about the cause, get out of the way, but it won't be about crossing your legs in a dress or how to be more politically correct...again, unless they're arguing or stressed, then they may suddenly resort to lame PC bs. And the ESFP maneuvers either as an entertainer, using their Fi to enrich others through laughter, art, music or some other impersonal way that's really about them and only incidentally beneficial to others. ..or the SEE ESFP politician, who probably looks similar to an ENFP champion, but is likely less democratic yet more tactical in their maneuvers. The ENFP is better with diplomacy, but the ESFP with knowing how to manipulate the political situation to their personal values through manipulation or tactics. I think ESFPs are more likely to throw rocks through windows or throw fake blood on people's fur coats, while the ENFP is pleasantly bringing more people into the fold with cheerful enthusiasm. BUT ...yeah the EXFP becomes a nag under stress.
The 16 Type Patterns

I got my information from here. It says that the 6th function is used when under stressed. Therefore I assume it's a function difficult to use.
 
Top