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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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  1. #31
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Stating a thing does not make it so. Explain your position.
    You mean like believing in something that isn't self consistent, nor necessary, which existence no data backs and actually make any thing it claims to explain more difficult to explain?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #32
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    You mean like believing in something that isn't self consistent, nor necessary, which existence no data backs and actually make any thing it claims to explain more difficult to explain?
    You do realize that you aren't doing any better here, right?
    You lose.

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  3. #33
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    Isn't it enough to love and admire the complexity of the universe for all these things? Why does God have to be a part of it?

    I've thought about how the idea of God makes a lot of people happy and there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but God isn't necessary to illicit such an emotion.
    But, without God there is no reason to love or admire anything... everything just is. Without God all value judgements (including what is beautiful) are completely subjective and just the result of chemical reactions in the human brain. Nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    You mean like believing in something that isn't self consistent, nor necessary, which existence no data backs and actually make any thing it claims to explain more difficult to explain?

    Eck I explained why you are wrong about this here but you ignored me and never responded.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #34
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    You do realize that you aren't doing any better here, right?
    Whatever you say Jimmy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Eck I explained why you are wrong about this here but you ignored me and never responded.
    Frankly.. I was trying to be nice.I didn't feel like taking 15 minutes answering it and then the counter answer etc. because I wasn't interested in it enough and being dismissive and hasty in my answer wasn't what I wanted, some points were worth arguing about but the overall structure sounded like intuively leaping to the answer you wanted and then making up the logic for it. But I saw that you did make an effort to give a structured and long answer so I thought I'd let you have this one. You're of course free not to believe me, i'm not trying to display/prove/win anything.
    Also one way i expected the argument could have gone would have ultimately ended in attacking the very structure of language to such a degree as to make the very argument meaningless except if I\we took the really long road but that'd basically be a novel.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #35
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    The OP is extremely loaded. You clearly have issues with Christianity, and sound closed to the idea of others finding lasting merit in what you have imperially dismissed as tripe.

    The definition of faith is hoping or believing in that which is unseen or not yet manifest. Faith doesn't need hard proof, it isn't a science, and it's not "irrational" in the sense of hysterics. A more apt word would be "illogical".

    Believing in a better tomorrow, believing in the goodness of humanity, believing in the spiritual aspect of life and the miracle of our world and our bodies is in itself faith. I believe very strongly in God, in the existence of souls and their marks on the world even when their bodies are long gone in the dust, in good and evil. This does not make me hysterical, unthinking, strict or confining. Faith is like seeing the "not" or "and" in the problem, the gap, the void or blank space where something should be, like dark matter. You know it's there, and yet it has no name, no shape, no direct method of detection, and its influence is felt on everything. Even gravity is considered an "imaginary" or vaguely unanswerable force.

    People who use religion - ANY belief system whatsoever - to corral, cage, cow, hamper, terrify or neglect is NOT, to me, something spiritual, but more what is called "the letter of the law" and not the spirit at all.

    I don't know anything for certain, I don't know ultimate outcomes, I refuse to live my life in fear, and yes, I believe in a personal God that I can't always explain or even fully understand. I weigh my faith against the things I see and hear as proofs, I also take into account that some things cannot and will not ever be explained, I feel the numinous presence of the departed.

    There is the "god spot" in the brain. There is a real faith. The balance must be struck by those who care to approach both. A critical understanding is needed regardless of what I think about God or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

    I have a religious ENTP friend very close to me that makes me look like a woad-smeared heathen. It's not about type. (AGAIN)
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  6. #36
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I don't know if I can express how dumb this thread is.

    We might be able to judge whether a belief system is rational in that it is internally consistent, but we can't stand outside of a belief system and say it is definitely irrational because our judgement will necessarily be driven by our own unprovable presumptions.

    It might be true that whatever belief system NT's adopt they attempt to be as logically consistent as possible. But, saying you reject religion because you are rational is dumb. What you really mean is that you find a separate set of presumptions more appealing and prefer the logical construct built upon those unprovable presumptions.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
    Likes Florence Atley liked this post

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    But, without God there is no reason to love or admire anything... everything just is. Without God all value judgements (including what is beautiful) are completely subjective and just the result of chemical reactions in the human brain. Nothing more.
    But this is a conclusion based on an argument that assumes that "God exists" in the first place. Until you prove that your statement has no meaning.

    We currently have no proof either way that God exists.
    Likes Florence Atley liked this post

  8. #38
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't know if I can express how dumb this thread is.

    We might be able to judge whether a belief system is rational in that it is internally consistent, but we can't stand outside of a belief system and say it is definitely irrational because our judgement will necessarily be driven by our own unprovable presumptions.

    It might be true that whatever belief system NT's adopt they attempt to be as logically consistent as possible. But, saying you reject religion because you are rational is dumb. What you really mean is that you find a separate set of presumptions more appealing and prefer the logical construct built upon those unprovable presumptions.
    The issue with that line of reasoning is that 1) you assume that reason go for absolutes when that's actually more generally the view theists have about 'rational people'.
    Unprovable would also apply to any of your claims, the difference is, no matter how unreliable the information we have is; models based on some possibly unreliable information (maybe our sense lie or we are manipulated etc etc.) is still infinitely more reliable than claims made with no information backing it.
    On a side note, attacking thesis 1 doesn't make thesis 2 true, common fallacy.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #39
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Without God all value judgements (including what is beautiful) are completely subjective and just the result of chemical reactions in the human brain. Nothing more.
    And that's bad .. why ?
    It's like saying that pedophiles don't exist because I don't like the idea.

    Also the whole bit about god being necessary for values etc is silly. Your whole line of argument is based upon the assumption that things can only have one 'function' at a time while everyday life shows that's never the case (same for the link you gave me).
    Ever heard about relativity ?

    And if one looks at the supposed 'word of God' (abraham based religions) the rules and lessons aren't even consistent with each other.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #40
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    There is the "god spot" in the brain. There is a real faith.
    Dualistic and so, unsubstanciated. Dualism didn't make sense when Descartes first applied his poor talents at philosophy to try to argue its case and it makes even less sense now.

    Real faith sounds pretty but as far as we know it's heavily based on "evolutionary artifacts" such as the "god spot" then there's no meaningful difference. (yes beef, i'm talking in relative terms and assuming it extremely unlikely that domino has access to any future repository of knowledge I don't have access to nor know of)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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