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  1. #181
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    No, I found an Islam forum though and I have found the answers to be much more related to topic and helpful, so I am taking their guidance on where to start with the Curan. The first part I want to read is the part about Jesus and compare it to the Bible's teachings of Jesus. This is going to take a while to pick a part and the more I read online at least, the more lost I get on what I believe. I am afraid that I wont strongly believe Islam's teachings of Jesus and in the process I'll wind up believing less in the Bible. Then where will I be...

  2. #182
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Then where will I be...
    You will be left to look inward, to listen to your own heart and spirit, what the Christians sometimes call the "still, small voice". Muslims probably have a name for it, too.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    There are things just as off-putting in the Bible. The difference is that most Christians have learned not to interpret it all so literally.
    There are many Christian fundies but they have a choice of what to follow e.g. One has the choice whether to follow Paul's teachings etc. however the Quran lacks context, time and place. I only managed to get through half of it but it's a lot of Muhammad speaking and Allah speaking. It's a long book of rules, regulations and explanations that non-Muslims are too stupid to understand and more notably would try and prevent Muslims from following it. There is no inherent sense of chronology or causality (like a book of short stories) and the anti non-Muslim rhetoric are all things you would see in real life and it begins on practically the first page. Let's just say it is an ideal engine to fuel bigotry, distrust and a sense of injustice. Due to the aforementioned issues everything needs to be followed or else one would become less of a believer and thus (as the Quran likes to explain) leads to Hell.


    Otherwise the book is confused, poorly written (sort of crap I would write) and riddled with contradictions. It became clear to me that students are forced to listen to and consult Imams who perhaps are the only ones who can untangle the massive web it creates.

  4. #184
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    especially from someone who pretends to be a lutheran from deep Missouri.
    For any interested parties:

    The Missouri Synod is in ALL 50 STATES OF THE U.S.

    It is just a more traditional and conservative Lutheran church (especially compared to the Evangelical Lutherans, who seem to resemble the Unitarian church more than Catholics), actually founded in Chicago by Lutheran German immigrants in the 19th century, but now headquartered in Missouri.

  5. #185
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Fot what it's worth, I assumed the OP was a woman even before she stated it (just going by her writing style) and also belief that she is an American.

    I'd agree that there is a large varierty within Islam and that any religion contains both beauty and dangers depending on how you live it.

    However, what struck me the most and what has been touched upon very little in this thread is something completely different. The OP's urgent and intense need for external rules, guidance, discipline, etc. does not seem healthy to me. While I am an atheist myself I do understand the value of religion, I really do. But I think that the OP's reasons for considering a change of religion are not very well thought out. They seem to have an emotional/psychological rather than a theological basis.

    Wouldn't it be dishonest towards your fellow muslims to join them merely because you like the idea of covering your head?! Because you like to feel modest and maybe feel awkward about your body (speculating here)? Simply because you want some external force to give you a framework to live in? That sounds like a bad reason to join any religion.

    There are good reasons to become a muslim or join any religion. But like others have said, those are theological reasons. If you feel that the Quran really speaks to you and you truely believe that Jesus was not the son of god and that Mohamed was the last of the prophets, then you might be ready, not before that.

    Pleaes don't get this the wrong way, but you seem to know very little about Islam (you haven't even read the Quran!!! oh, and you'd have to learn Arabic too because most consider that only the Arabic original of the book is the true word of god and that translations are just crutches), not really have researched other communities within your current religion and base this whole thing on your emotional frustration with specific your current community and your emotional vulnerabilty rather than on calm thinking.

    You even stated that you'd die if you don't join a disciplined strict community to give you something to hold on to. That sounds like you might be highly unstable emotionally. That is what has me worried.

    I'm sure becoming a muslim might be a great choice for some people in some situations, but you do not sound like that is what you truely need right now. Get your personal stuff sorted out first (maybe with the help of a professional) and only when you feel like a strong, healthy, confident woman again and after fully informing yourself about all your options and being ready to make an informed decision THEN can you truely become a good muslim and live that faith - not out of fear of the world or yourself or in orderto escape your issues but because you truely believe in the pillars of that religion and want to follow it with all your heart.

    Anything else would just be dishonest towards yourself and others.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #186
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    There is no rule within Islam too, unless you're a staunch wahhabite.

    The Imam you quoted is just an ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic fool.

    I've seen muslim friends attend the same funerals where I was. They even attended the funeral of very well known atheists.

    Wherever you have bigoted fanaticism, the phenomena you denounce can happen.
    Wherever you have common sense and reason, it cannot.
    So Muslims don't obey their own rules. Who can obey so many rules?

    http://en.alukah.net/Shariah/0/1751/
    "Ibn Bataal says that visiting the sick should be in order to encourage them to enter Islam, if this is not the reason for visiting them, then it is not allowed. Ibn Hajar remarks that whether or not visiting them is allowed depends on the intentions for going, since there may well be other hidden benefits from visiting the sick.



    As for wishing them well, on their holidays and festivals of distorted belief, everyone agrees that this is not allowed. This includes telling them `Merry Christmas,' or `Happy Easter,' or `Happy Hanukkah,' and so forth, since this is really congratulating them in their states of disbelief, which is forbidden. It is like wishing them well for the worship of Christ, indeed, it is worse than this before Allah, and more loathsome than wishing them good health as they drink alcoholic drinks; worse than killing someone unjustly or engaging in illicit sex."

    Wishing someone "Merry Christmas" is worse than murder.

    And all sins AREN'T equal in Islam.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #187
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post

    Pleaes don't get this the wrong way, but you seem to know very little about Islam
    Maybe, but notice how s/he has been defending it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I am not pushing my religion on you, so don't push your atheism and insults on to me. And clearly by your statement on Jihad, you don't know enough about Islam to comment.
    (My religion?)
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #188
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    SSDD

    Been said yet?

    Good luck on your endeavour.

  9. #189
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Fot what it's worth, I assumed the OP was a woman even before she stated it (just going by her writing style) and also belief that she is an American.
    What do you consider to be a "female writing style"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    However, what struck me the most and what has been touched upon very little in this thread is something completely different. The OP's urgent and intense need for external rules, guidance, discipline, etc. does not seem healthy to me. While I am an atheist myself I do understand the value of religion, I really do. But I think that the OP's reasons for considering a change of religion are not very well thought out. They seem to have an emotional/psychological rather than a theological basis.
    I have pointed this out a couple times already, but so far, no response from the OP.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Fot what it's worth, I assumed the OP was a woman even before she stated it (just going by her writing style) and also belief that she is an American.I'd agree that there is a large varierty within Islam and that any religion contains both beauty and dangers depending on how you live it.However, what struck me the most and what has been touched upon very little in this thread is something completely different. The OP's urgent and intense need for external rules, guidance, discipline, etc. does not seem healthy to me. While I am an atheist myself I do understand the value of religion, I really do. But I think that the OP's reasons for considering a change of religion are not very well thought out. They seem to have an emotional/psychological rather than a theological basis.Wouldn't it be dishonest towards your fellow muslims to join them merely because you like the idea of covering your head?! Because you like to feel modest and maybe feel awkward about your body (speculating here)? Simply because you want some external force to give you a framework to live in? That sounds like a bad reason to join any religion.There are good reasons to become a muslim or join any religion. But like others have said, those are theological reasons. If you feel that the Quran really speaks to you and you truely believe that Jesus was not the son of god and that Mohamed was the last of the prophets, then you might be ready, not before that.Pleaes don't get this the wrong way, but you seem to know very little about Islam (you haven't even read the Quran!!! oh, and you'd have to learn Arabic too because most consider that only the Arabic original of the book is the true word of god and that translations are just crutches), not really have researched other communities within your current religion and base this whole thing on your emotional frustration with specific your current community and your emotional vulnerabilty rather than on calm thinking.You even stated that you'd die if you don't join a disciplined strict community to give you something to hold on to. That sounds like you might be highly unstable emotionally. That is what has me worried.I'm sure becoming a muslim might be a great choice for some people in some situations, but you do not sound like that is what you truely need right now. Get your personal stuff sorted out first (maybe with the help of a professional) and only when you feel like a strong, healthy, confident woman again and after fully informing yourself about all your options and being ready to make an informed decision THEN can you truely become a good muslim and live that faith - not out of fear of the world or yourself or in orderto escape your issues but because you truely believe in the pillars of that religion and want to follow it with all your heart.
    I agree with the last two paras. I myself have never cosulted a consultant/therapist so can't really recommend on my personal experience but going by what others who have experience have to say, I say it's worth a try. Also something you should know about islam is it says never to preach to a drowning man. If you expand on the metaphor - which i'm certain you can do without my help - it not only implies that 'drowning men' will hold onto whatever rubbish which is thrown at them due to sheer desperation, it also indicates that if you do convert to islam (or you make another convert) you should do so only after learning, accepting and valuing it.

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