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  1. #61
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    spinoza has some good insight on this topic
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  2. #62
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    spinoza has some good insight on this topic
    I am familiar with him. We had to study him in philosophy.

  3. #63
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    I am familiar with him. We had to study him in philosophy.
    all of his philosophies are awsome but being the NF that i am i specifically love his view of good/evil.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  4. #64
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    all of his philosophies are awsome but being the NF that i am i specifically love his view of good/evil.
    I conquered the concept of good and evil a while ago. I decided to be that gray area in between.

    What is your interpretation of his text on good/evil?

  5. #65
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    I conquered the concept of good and evil a while ago. I decided to be that gray area in between.

    What is your interpretation of his text on good/evil?
    well he basically states that it is relative from a human standpoint and that everyone may have different views but none are right or wrong.

    from broader perspective he basically states that good = things that are good for humans in the long run and bad = things that are bad for humans in the long run

    he then states that there really isn't any good or bad because it is all going to happen anyway blah blah blah... ill kill it if i even try

    course wikipedia would do a much better job at stating this.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  6. #66
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    well he basically states that it is relative from a human standpoint and that everyone may have different views but none are right or wrong.

    from broader perspective he basically states that good = things that are good for humans in the long run and bad = things that are bad for humans in the long run

    he then states that there really isn't any good or bad because it is all going to happen anyway blah blah blah... ill kill it if i even try

    course wikipedia would do a much better job at stating this.
    Didn't feel like reading through big complex words and sentences late at night. Plus I like to hear others input on information that is quite controversial.

  7. #67
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    Didn't feel like reading through big complex words and sentences late at night. Plus I like to hear others input on information that is quite controversial.
    its cool. skim over it if you ever have the time.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  8. #68
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    There is an objective reality... however its nature is irrelevent to us. That's what I've been trying to say all this time. Objective reality... whatever it might be is not useful to us in any way. Why not focus our energy on the subjective where it can be of use?
    I don't know...
    I think the reminder that there is an objective reality is extremely useful in the sense that the universe without us doesn't really care. It's reminds me personally not to be so ego-centric and that even though I add meaning and interpretation to things, at the end of the day it's only I who do so. But I guess I agree with you there.

    There are some people out there who take this idea of subjectiveness to the next level. They believe everything in the world is subjective, and that everything really is just an extention of their own thoughts. What they don't percieve or is conscious about doesn't exist. Which in some messed up way is kinda true...

  9. #69
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So we delude ourselves into thinking that perception is reality..
    You've hit the nail on the head, Victor.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    It is somewhat trivially true to say that each of us has only our own subjective experience of the world to go on, never anything more. But we are perfectly capable of generalizing experiences which seem to share certain commonalities, and then putting these general claims to experiment to see if we have made a correct generalization or not. The very essence of explanation and cognition is, indeed, generalization. We may observe other people engaged in their process of inquiry and, if they arrive at the same conclusions, then it is very difficult to advance the claim that each of us has some private reality or truth which others do not have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is true.

    And science is based on many, many perceptions of reality. And all these perceptions are analysed statistically.

    Then other independent scientists seek to replicate the perceptions and analysis them, and then validate or falsify them.

    What becomes very apparent in all this is that one perception does does not give a good picture of reality.

    The important thing is to reality-test our perceptions.
    This is a very good point. Scientific theories often strive to be as general as possible. The claims of a theory are made so that they carry as little dependence on a particular point of view as possible. This is why physics concerns itself so much with the invariance of the laws of physics under transformations of reference frames, for example. If someone claims that they are exempt from a factual statement or its consequences because of their point of view, then they are unaware that those factual statements are formulated to be preserved across points of view. In any case, they must offer evidence (rather than bald assertions of metaphysical solipsism), to suggest that a claim has not captured some grain of truth.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

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