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  1. #31
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    You might be on to something. Maybe America is so total extrovert that he doesn't think about that much before doing? It must be the extrovert among the countries...
    America still ain't a person.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  2. #32
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    America still ain't a person.
    Dude. It's an analogy.

  3. #33
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6sticks View Post
    You missed my "100%" part:

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    The research done so far shows that type is innate; culture, family, workplace, environment influence our expression.
    The bolded part would make it less than 100%, if you get my drift.

    Therefore, type is innate to a degree, but not absolutely innate. I say this because you created an either-or scenario when a third options exists.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  4. #34
    Senior Member 6sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching
    The research done so far shows that type is innate; culture, family, workplace, environment influence our expression.
    Expression isn't type.
    No offense.

  5. #35
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    I disagree.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  6. #36
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Dude. It's an analogy.
    I get that. But it's stupid to try to attribute a personality type to an entire country. Not all analogies are good analogies.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  7. #37
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6sticks View Post
    In the "are you born with it?" thread


    So if types are innate then modal types only show the expressed behaviors favored by a culture, and not the true types. If the MBTI were more accurate in determining the true type, the percentages of, say, INTPs in every culture would be the same... once you factor in suicides, witch-hunts, and whatnot.
    The modal types are supposed to come off of verified type, not reported (instrument type). Behaviors, not type, changes. For example my ENTP British colleagues are much more subdued than American ENTPs, but still more like others of their type than the other types in Britain.

    Lots of genetic things vary by culture/country...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    So ec, do you have a link to stats or reports that would show me how MBTI population percentages are broken down by country?

    Because . . . that would be interesting.
    No links...These are the only two official national representative samples.

    US (From the MBTI Manual, CPP, 1998)
    ISTJ 11.6%
    ISTP 5.4
    ESTP 4.3
    ESTJ 8.7
    ISFJ 13.8
    ISFP 8.8
    ESFP 8.5
    ESFJ 12.3
    INFJ 1.5
    INFP 4.4
    ENFP 8.1
    ENFJ 2.1
    INTJ 2.1
    INTP 3.3
    ENTP 3.2
    ENTJ 1.8

    UK also from MBTI manual
    ISTJ 13/7
    ISTP 6.4
    ESTP 5.8
    ESTJ 10.4
    ISFJ 12.7
    ISFP 6.1
    ESFP 8.7
    ESFJ 12.6
    INFJ 1/7
    INFP 3.2
    ENFP 6.3
    ENFJ 2.8
    INTJ 1.4
    INTP 2.4
    ENTP 2.8
    ENTJ 2.9

    The samples from Spain, Germany, Ital, Netherlands, are too heavily weighted with business types to be anything near representative. They show more S's than N's, in all places. All over the world, managers are overwhelmingly TJ...
    Last edited by proteanmix; 09-13-2008 at 10:21 AM. Reason: merged posts
    edcoaching

  8. #38
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    And just for the record, I don't think that is as much about genetics as it is about environment. I do think this factor is slight - as opposed to my wife, for example - but I do know and believe that it exists. But I understand why it's debatable.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  9. #39
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I get that. But it's stupid to try to attribute a personality type to an entire country. Not all analogies are good analogies.
    It can also be very useful. Say you want to win a presidential campaign. Knowing the culture has, say, an archetype around Extraversion and Sensing can help you plan your campaign--especially if you know the modal type is also ES. Here's what you'd do:
    • Make a big deal any time your opponant seems to get more information and therefore change position--or if he says "This is a complicated issue and there isn't a clear-cut, always-works rule." Call him a flip-flopper.
    • Kick the national security threat level up just before any important vote to remind the public that the country is safe
    • Make the most of clear-cut decisions. Make them a virtue. Stay the course. You're either with us or against us. Etc.
    • Focus on voter pocketbooks rather than global issues. For example--offshore drilling for immediate relief rather than remindingpeople that global warming is also an issue here and that in the past when we've rallied around huge challenges (think ABomb whether we should have dropped it or not or getting to the moon) we make it. Don't mention the tax subsidies you voted for that kept Detroit making SUVs far too long. Or, the fact that several alternative energy companies have packed up and moved to Europe recently where incentives are already inplace--one from Ohio just relocated 300 engineers to Germany
    • Keep the focus on whether you as a parent have a choice in where to send your child rather thanon the bigger issue that for a democracy to function every child needs to be able to think
    • Keep the focus present oriented. Like, focus on the "Surge" results. Not on the fact that we went in under false pretenses or that we destroyed the infrastructures of the country, creating enemies left and right.
    • Make sure you point to titles like "community organizer" that aren't as well-defined as senator or representative or attorney or mayor so you can get people thinking that no leadership could have taken place in such a role


    Don't think for a second that I'm saying S's are more vulnerable or idiotic than N's. It's just that by sheer numbers, not by % within the preference, idiotic S's outnumber idiotic N's...in this country...

    And yes, I could quickly find ways the Democrats have similarly pandered to Sensing types in teh last elections, but their big, election-losing moves in the last two go-rounds were when they stuck to Intuitive rhetoric.
    edcoaching

  10. #40
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    edcoaching, what makes you think MBTI statistics are accurate? They never made sense to me until I concluded that people who take MBTI have other motives than proper self-assessment and ISTJ is the "most common type" because people want to appear responsible.

    In anticipation of a possible response (One of my major strengths as ISTJ, er INTP):

    I'd bet serious cash that I could come to your office tomorrow and test as ISTJ, as many people could and surely already have done without even knowing what ISTJ means, they simply put on the front of being a quiet, responsible fellow who follows orders.

    I'm not so sure I could fool a socionics practitioner. Not that I would want to, I'd take the test, then we'd get some beers and talk socionics.

    Official MBTI is antiquated and defunct.
    Last edited by Jack Flak; 09-13-2008 at 10:44 AM. Reason: merged posts

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